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[Starver]

I'm quite frankly amazed at how many people are saying Toady should just put off music for another ten years, despite how he could get it out of the way forever in a matter of days. It's like saying you should build a house's frame, add flooring, paint the walls, furnish it, move in, and THEN add shingles to the roof.

While a house without a roof (of whatever kind, not just of Herpes virus ) is but a walled/fenced-in area, the lack of music for a game isn't quite so detrimental to the rest of the game.  (Plus, we do have a roof, albeit it might be corrugated iron when some would be looking for fine Welsh Slate in their perfect version.)

I'd glady have the next version of DF pushed back for a while fir <insert-feature here> to be added, I literally can't comprehend why everyone is saying it should be postponed just so that the bugs get fixed RIGHT NAO.

There you are.  Corrected it (except for typos/deliberate mist-types) so that this statement can be used be everyone, not just you.  You see, most people have something they'd rather like to see "nao" (sic), and for you it's music.  Good for you.

Actually, my needs are a little more flexible and less precise, and some of what I'd like is going to be solved in the next version, doubtless, and some happy new stuff that I'd never thought about but will doubtless overjoy me, so I'm probably not going to use a version of the quote for myself.


However, that's my opinion (not GWG's, and obviously not yours), and I know my view is not universal.  Take it as you will.

[GoombaGeek]

HAI GAIZ WHAT UP
ALLCAPS TIEM

We NEED more music!!!

LOOKS LIKE A MUSIC SUGGESTION

I bet Toady could write and add some more music to the game within 3 days. Or, he could just buy the rights to use another person's music in Dwarf Fortress, and have it over with in a matter of hours.

INDEED THIS IS POSSIBLE
THE SOUNDSENSE GUYS WOULD PROBABLY BE QUITE SUPPORTIVE OF THIS

These 3 days is better spent fixing bugs.

IT'S JUST THREE DAYS MAN, CHILL (UNLESS TOADY HAS A WEEK TO LIVE IN WHICH CASE THAT WOULD BE A WASTE OF HALF HIS REMAINING LIFESPAN, OH DEAR)

It amazes me that the most some people ever contribute to the SUGGESTION forum are comments shooting down someone else's ideas.

THIS IS SOMEWHAT CORRECT

You, however, seem completely incapable of independent thought.

OH HEY NOW
DON'T GET EXCESSIVE

I tottaly can imagine the Amazing DF Procedural Ambient Generator with winds and rivers on the surface, and some darkish chords underground, and some evil laugh and screams near HFS, and with a lot of reverb, and with taking into account the surroundings, and all other things, but it's just too much work for Toady.

THAT IS PRETTY COOL
TRUE ABOUT THE WORK THOUGH
ONCE AGAIN, MAYBE THE SOUNDSENSE GUYS COULD HELP?
NICE IDEA

A bad, ridiculous, time-wasting, or otherwise unuseful suggestion is worse than no suggestion, if only because it crowds out the more useful suggestions and crowds up the subforum.
And "incapable of independent thought?" Try "didn't get here for a few pages." And I have come up with ideas, good and bad, and sometimes incredibly detailed...say, the time I came up with an idea for every sphere in a biome form.
I am blunt. I. Am. NOT. Dumb.

HOLD IT
1. INTERNET IS LARGE PLACE
∴ INTERNET CAN HANDLE WASTING OF SPACE, IT'S NOT LIKE A TWO-PAGE THREAD WILL CAUSE THE SERVER TO MELT
2. VERY DIFFICULT TO CITE OWN IDEAS WITH ACCURATE APPRAISAL OF IDEA QUALITY
I KNOW WHAT LONG PROJECT IS LIKE
HALFWAY THROUGH YOU START THINKING
"WAIT THIS WASN'T THE BEST IDEA"
"BUT I AM SO CLOSE TO BEING DONE"
"I'LL JUST FINISH IT IN IMPERFECT FORM"
3. POSTING USING FREQUENT PERIODS (LIKE. THIS. ETC.) WORKS IN VERBAL COMMUNICATION
IT DOES NOT WORK IN TEXTUAL COMMUNICATION
THE MIND DOES NOT IMAGINE AN EPIC PAUSE BUT RATHER A JAGGEDY MONOTONE
WE CANNOT READ INFLECTION
IT SOUNDS LIKE LAME TVTROPES PAGE
4. IT IS VERY EASY TO THINK OF YOURSELF AS SOME SORT OF LIGHT-SWORD OF BLUNT PURITY IF YOU HAVE TROUBLE NOT SAYING THINGS TO PEOPLE'S FACES
BELIEVE ME, I KNOW ABOUT THIS
YOU ARE NOT LIKE THE WITTY UNASHAMED ANIME CHARACTER WHO SAYS FUNNY TABOO THINGS OUT LOUD, CAUSING MIRTHFULNESS
YOU ARE LIKE SOMEONE WHO HAS GONE A LITTLE TOO FAR AND IS HAVING A BIT OF TROUBLE RECOGNIZING IT
SERIOUSLY, YOU HAVE TIME TO REVIEW WHAT YOU POST
PEOPLE ENJOY WHEN YOU ARE NICE TO THEM AND EVERY SERIOUS SUGGESTION HAS GOOD INTENTIONS

Sphere? As in the game's procedurally generated deities? I got a deity who's sphere was pregnancy. So you think overhauling biomes to include one where all the animals are pregnant is something that's useful?

This is a giant pregnant dingo leather cloak.

The Weretapir Dishmabtutob has come! It is a tapir twisted into humanoid form! Beware its poisonous afterbirth!

You're so right, that's totally better than music. And it wouldn't take much time for Toady to do. After all, he'd only have to scrap and redo the entire world generation algorithms. And its stupid because this game is more real than cinematic. Have you ever sent out a squad of wrestlers? You should try it some time.

NOW YOU
ARE GETTING A BIT OUT THERE
I DON'T GET HOW THE SPHERES IDEA WOULD WORK EITHER
BUT THE GAME HAS MANY, MANY FANTASY ELEMENTS IN IT AND IGNORING THEM IS SILLY
FANTASTIC CREATURES ROAM THE PLANET IN REALMS OF BLINKING GROUND COVER AND FEATHERED TREES, A FAR CRY FROM THE COLD STEEL OF THE DWARVES
REDOING THE BIOMES WOULD TAKE FOREVER, THOUGH
HMM

ExecratedDwarf: I didn't choose random crap, I actually went to each sphere and thought of how it could meaningfully affect gameplay. And Toady has said he'd like to replace generic good, evil, etc biomes with sphere-based biomes.

GREAT
HE'LL IMPLEMENT HIS OWN INTERPRETATION THOUGH
SO YOUR SUGGESTION IS MEANINGLESS
AND USELESS
EVERY SUGGESTION IS USELESS
THE GAME DEV WILL NEVER USE AN IDEA HE DOESN'T COMPLETELY AGREE WITH IN UNALTERED FORMAT
SO TAKE IT EASY
IT'S JUST A MUSIC THREAD

You know all you accomplish with crap like that is to make yourself look bad, and to bump the thread you apparently detest so much.

THIS IS THE DARK SECRET OF THE FORUM
LOOK UPON IT, AND WEEP

One thing Toady could do is have more things post to a log for SoundSense (or any other utility) to read. There's probably all sorts of events that don't currently output any text that could be taken advantage of.

Overall, though, there's not much point in Toady implementing something that's already been pretty well implemented by somebody else. I mean, look what happened with Notch.

I WOULD ENJOY MORE FLAGS THAT COULD CAUSE EVENTS
ESPECIALLY WITH MODDING
YOU COULD MAKE ORGANIC MINE-GRASS IN "CORRUPTED" REGIONS FOR THE POST-APOCALYPSE MOD
YOU COULD MAKE INORGANIC SOLID SYNDROMES WORK CORRECTLY, IF EVERY TOUCH OF A URANIUM INGOT COULD CAUSE URANIUM DUST TO DISLODGE AND CAUSE SYNDROMES
IMAGINE!
ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH NOTCH

I'm quite frankly amazed at how many people are saying Toady should just put off music for another ten years, despite how he could get it out of the way forever in a matter of days. It's like saying you should build a house's frame, add flooring, paint the walls, furnish it, move in, and THEN add shingles to the roof.

HE COULD GET ANYTHING OUT OF THE WAY FOREVER IN A MATTER OF DAYS
IT'S LIKE SAYING YOU SHOULD BUILD A GIGANTIC STACK OF MANY VARIOUS PIECES OF ALL DIFFERENT SIZES AND MATERIALS BY ONLY PLACING THEM WHERE THEY WILL BE SUPPORTED BY OTHER PIECES
OF COURSE, ONCE THE STACK GETS BIG ENOUGH, THERE ARE MANY PLACES WHERE PIECES COULD GO, SO YOU DO THEM ARBITRARILY
I LIKE MY METAPHOR A BIT MORE

And GreatWyrmGold, almost every time you post I become more convinced that you're a troll.

A PERSISTENT ONE THEN
I DON'T LIKE TO BRING POSTCOUNT INTO THIS BUT ONLY THE MOST DOGGED TROLL WOULD SPEND 5000+ POSTS ON THE SET-UP

AND WE ARE DONE!

MUSIC!

IT CAUSES ARGUMENTS!

OKAY THEN
PS3 OR XBOX
COKE OR PEPSI
EDWARD OR JACOB

GO!

NOW CHECK YOUR ANSWERS!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

PS3, PEPSI, NEITHER

[pisskop]

Says the hi-schooler drawing stick figures more grotesque than Stickdeath.com using all capitals .

[Starver]

Neither, I don't use consoles.
Either, whichever is on the best deal at the supermarket[1], but I'd prefer Dr Pepper, if it was priced good enough.
I don't follow pop music.  No, wait, that's 'Jedward'.


We now return you to your regularly-scheduled arguments.

Spoiler: long footnote (click to show/hide)

[1] Until the other day, recently Pepsi's £2 for eight cans was the best deal (between the two) at a given store, but last time I looked the Coke 8-packs were being sold for £1.99, so fickle me switched allegiance in a flash.  However, Coke's 12-packs were "2 for £8", or similar, which made no sense given £6 would have given me the same number in 8-packs.  Meanwhile, Tango's being sold in 10-packs of 250ml cans at a price that looks good, but is worse when you consider the actual total ml/£ (or p/l, or however you want to calculate it).  In other news, there's a new cereal bar on sale that has several varieties (in identically-sized boxes), all but one of which has the shelf-labels stating "5x23g", the last one stating "5x115g", which is obviously wrong (115g total, a fifth of which (one bar) being 23g).  The "p/100g" indicator on the shelf is also wrong for that pack, and as expected given the error.  I've told the stacking-staff a few times, but nobody's changed anything and the oft-removed label still keeps getting put back with the incorrect info on it.

[Damiac]

Good god man.... the caps... THE CAPS!!!!

[GoombaGeek]

The PS3 has less of a screwy online. I don't own either so I'm just copying what my buddy says.

We've got giant 2L bottles, the packs of 355 mL cans are variable in price (especially with the introduction of "Stop being fat" size, something like 250 mL in slim cans). In taste alone, I like Pepsi better. One person I knew swore that Pepsi had better "bubble consistency", but I just like the flavor.

As for the third question, nobody wins.

[pisskop]

I wounldnt be doing my job as savanting-jack of all trades if I didn't ask what the fate of the werewolf was.  Did he die (for I assume the vampire won the girl)?

[alfie275]

I don't see how having an extra couple of songs (even say 20 songs) repeating a couple thousand times is any less annoying than having a single song. If you want different music just turn off the music and play your own.

[10ebbor10]

I don't see how having an extra couple of songs (even say 20 songs) repeating a couple thousand times is any less annoying than having a single song. If you want different music just turn off the music and play your own.

Same for me. I can stand the normal menu music. A soundtrack can be a powerfull tool for a game, but there's nearly no difference between a one song soundtrack and a five songs one. Most people will listen a while for the novelity, and then turn it off.

[GoombaGeek]

I wounldnt be doing my job as savanting-jack of all trades if I didn't ask what the fate of the werewolf was.  Did he die (for I assume the vampire won the girl)?

He fell in love with the baby.

#truestory

[pisskop]

Sick.

[dizzyelk]

I'd glady have the next version of DF pushed back for a while fir music to be added, I literally can't comprehend why everyone is saying it should be postponed just so that the bugs get fixed RIGHT NAO.

I'd rather bugs fixed. However, what I'd like more is new game features and an expanding of the amazingness that is Dwarf Fortress. Instead of just adding music to the game, I'd rather he spend a few days to add a feature where you could play your own music through the game. A few folders that you could drop mp3s in, where you could choose to have specific music for specific events, like a siege folder, a fortress folder, an adventure folder, whatever, and the game would play random songs from them during the appropriate times in the game.

[Leatra]

Even talking about this suggestion for 3 pages seems stupid to me.

1. There is community already adding music to the game. You wanna put 'em out of the job hobby?
2. You can use internet to play any music you want, if you don't own any music in your harddrive.
3. We are not talking about a game which is complete and lacks things like sound effects and music.
4. This is a roguelike (kind of) and in all roguelikes things like graphics and music are secondary.

There are things we need right now (like bugfixes) but you guys are suggesting that Toady's time will be spent better by adding music, which we can easily listen to ourselves via Soundsense or our own music collection.

I'm quite frankly amazed at how many people are saying Toady should just put off music for another ten years, despite how he could get it out of the way forever in a matter of days. It's like saying you should build a house's frame, add flooring, paint the walls, furnish it, move in, and THEN add shingles to the roof. I'd glady have the next version of DF pushed back for a while fir music to be added, I literally can't comprehend why everyone is saying it should be postponed just so that the bugs get fixed RIGHT NAO.

Really? You consider DF as a game which has a frame, flooring, painted walls, furniture and stuff. This house doesn't have proper painting (graphics), roof is in a bad shape (bugs) and the frame is expanded each day (this).

Each release, some people don't instantly download the game and play it. Some people wait for a few bugs to be crushed first. There are millions of things we could suggest and we clutter the suggestion pages with... music. Let's imagine the game has music now, 10 tracks maybe. Then what? It will repeat, repeat, repeat and be boring again too. Even if music gets added, I know plenty of people who would mute the game again and play from their music collection like always. Maybe YOU think game needs music but it's not even secondary thing. It's optional. Not everyone wants it. Things like bugfixes are essential because everybody wants needs it.

This is pretty much the same response I would give to someone who wants better graphics. Meh, next time I know people will want Toady to add a calculator in the game.

[Damiac]

I wasn't saying I want music to be a high priority.  Just pointing out that jumping into a suggestion thread to bitch about the suggestion is stupid.
Jumping back in to suggest things after bashing it is even stupider .

And, once again, the music haters are keeping this on the top of the list.

Spoiler: ProTip (click to show/hide)

If you hate the content of a thread, don't post in it and bump it, instead, let it die

[10ebbor10]

I wasn't saying I want music to be a high priority.  Just pointing out that jumping into a suggestion thread to bitch about the suggestion is stupid.
Jumping back in to suggest things after bashing it is even stupider .

And, once again, the music haters are keeping this on the top of the list.

Spoiler: ProTip (click to show/hide)

If you hate the content of a thread, don't post in it and bump it, instead, let it die

I'm afraid I have to disagree with that statement. While I do not approve of messages that just state that an idea is stupid, you have to allow both sides to speak. Doing what you suggests just knocks out all opposition for just about any idea. A discussion is what an idea needs, not a bunch of people agreeing on something. That'll just get you a wrongly positive view.

What would be best is putting up a poll, preferably with 4 or 5 options and starting an eternal voting thread.

Spoiler: Suggestion (click to show/hide)

I think music is a priority
I think music is nice, but something for later
I'd like new music, but only as an extra. I wont listen to it after the first few times
Meh, I don't listen to it anyway

Something like that should do it.