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Hand Crafted Maps!

1 (14.3%)

No more Hasting Bezerkers!

1 (14.3%)

All these new units!

2 (28.6%)

More Game-Modes!

2 (28.6%)

I love everything equally!

1 (14.3%)

I hate it all... V.2.0 was the best.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 7

[GreatWyrmGold]

Seeing as Zacen has an impromptu "alliance" with me, I doubt that.
Also, the second cleric was supposed to cast Haste.

[Nerjin]

My bad... Uh, I suppose you want that fixed don't you?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Yes, if you wouldn't mind.

[zacen299]

I need a PM to know where my Assassins are I don't remember. Secondly I already have a target in mind I just have to set myself up for it which IS TAKING FOREVER.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I don't blame you.

By the way, just to confirm: We're "allied" until we kill Grek, right?

[Grek]

There's no actual benefit for zacen to choose you over me (except for spite, I guess) so my prediction is he's going to assassinate all the best units from both our sides.

[GreatWyrmGold]

That's the worst possible option. And since my side is slightly weaker, it makes more sense to ally with me, because if he allied with you, your victory would be overpowering, leaving you mostly unharmed and able to easily destroy your forces.

[zacen299]

Bingo I can infinitely easier kill (or at least give him a good fight) Wyrm than I can to you Grek my only chance of coming out on top is killing all your clerics and letting Wyrm kill the Bezerkers and hoping Wyrm by that point is too weak to give me trouble. No this isn't secret anyone who understand strategy could figure out that's what I'm doing granted if I make even one mistake until you are dead Grek I lose. This needs to be perfect if I want to win. Well even then though second wouldn't be bad.

[zacen299]

Archer to A9

[Grek]

Zacen:
You have 5 backstabs and an archer.

You do not have the ability to kill GreatWyrmGold's troll with your remaining units, no matter how hard you try or how cleverly you plan. Your assassins have a total of 5 backstabs in them for a total of 20 damage. The troll as 30 hp and is unlikely to move out of the dense vegetation protecting it from your archer.

You can just barely kill GreatWyrmGold's necromancer-cleric cluster. Each turn, he can summon a skeleton between your archer and his necromancer. You need two backstabs to kill a single cleric and must either kill both clerics (a total of four backstabs) or distract three skeletons out of four somehow in order to force him to leave a tile adjacent to the necromancer open for an assassin to get the backstab in. This will not leave you enough resources to kill anything else, but you could do it if it came down to just your units vs. them.

You can kill his mage. You just need two backstabs, or a single backstab against the skeleton blocking your archer and a shot with a poison arrow on the mage that doesn't get cured. This is super risky, since him moving his mage or his warrior into the correct position will ruin this plan.

You can kill his warrior or any one of my units using two backstabs. At best you can kill 2 such units this way. You can also shoot them, but you don't have the firepower to take out enough of my clerics for this to do permanent damage, and GWG will be constantly shotblocking any attempts vs his unit with a skeleton.

The only winning situation for you is A] for me to kill GWG's necromancer, B] for me to kill GWG's troll, C] for there to be no more than 1 cleric remaining on either side, and D] for me to lose at least 2/3rds of my remaining beserkers and E] for you to make no mistakes at all.

The obvious response to this is for me to pick the Zacen-cannot-win-while-this-lives unit that is least threatening to me (GWG's unkillable-with-assassins-but-easy-to-handle-with-hasted-beserkers troll) and leave that alive until you agree to play ball. So I'm going to do exactly that:

Precommitment: GWG's troll does not die Zacen kills some of GWG's units.

[zacen299]

Kill his troll I knew it was there I never said I was going to attack soon and you can't not attack the troll or it will cause way more trouble for you I realize I'm pretty much screwed no matter what I do but still I haven't even said half my plan yet. Though those Clerics do need to die. I kinda wish I had thought to have brought one or I might've done better.

[Grek]

Since I can move and attack whereas the troll can only move or attack, it isn't really a big threat to me as long as I keep up the skirmish tactics I've been using the entire game. I can afford to be flexible in which units I target.

And, yeah. A cleric or two is a huge force multiplier for assassins. You can heal them to do more backstabs, haste them so they can backstab and then move out of range, they're really good.

[zacen299]

I think I'm still going to use assassins next game just slightly more smartly. Although I think their stealth should remain the same (and thats not just from someone constantly using it) They'd be useless otherwise considering they only get one move while stealthed even if they aren't doing what I'm doing because they'd need to attack next turn plus if someone has any mages the guy with the assassins would be screwed because he could just aim near where they were last turn. They need to be able to stealth and stay stealthed to do anything. Edit: Plus if I'm not mistaken next version they don't hurt themselves with backstabs anymore.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Grek, there's a problem with your logic.
Again, you're a bit more powerful than me. If he allied with me, you would crush me and then be able to crush him with ease. If he helps me, it'll be a tougher fight, but I'll be weaker from it, opening the possibility that he could win.

[Grek]

I'm more powerful in absolute terms, yes. But not more powerful in Can-Zacen-hurt-it terms, which are the ones that matter to Zacen. I have a bunch of identical mundane units that are each individually easy to take out by assassins, but which are too numerous to all be assassinated. You have units that can't be assassinated at all. The logical choice is to try to get me to take heavy losses killing everything on your side that he can't kill himself and then to mop up whatever I have left.