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[Toaster]

Short on time, so responses now and detail later.


Dariush:  My bad.  I should have asked "Are you going to do anything today besides make stupid arguments?"


Leafsnail:  I barely considered it in passing.  It never came close to making it into the post.

[IronyOwl]

ToonyMan:

For your response I'm going to argue that you're wrong.  I attacked Deathsword for suspicions and I was right.  If Dariush doesn't show up to at least say something I'm definitely going to attack him soon.

Yeah, but those are both pretty easy targets. You haven't had much to say on anyone who isn't your (fairly obvious) target until prompted.

When does it stop being (fairly obvious) targets?  Your argument here is that I'm doing well.

When they're targets you work at and try to genuinely figure out, eventually concluding that they're scum, as opposed to targets who dig themselves deeper with every post.

My argument isn't that you're doing well, it's that you're preying on the infirm and nothing else.

Well, two loyal flips would have been extremely worrisome.  I meant the situation in the second quote, not the flip which you seem to be inferring incorrectly.

And how would 'worrisome' flip influence your play, scum?

Uh, traitor guards would outnumber loyal guards 2 to 1?  It would be reaching the point where the traitors could come out and win the ensuing battles with high probability.  Four traitors 2 loyals and the prince.  Unless the loyals had better roles we'd most likely lose right then.  The only saving grace we would have is if one or more of the traitors decided to stay "loyal" which would be pretty stupid.

...so you're admitting that your interest in Deathsword's flip was because you want to know if you could drop the act?

No.  I didn't even realize Toaster had landed a killing blow on Caz until my next post when I checked the count.

Except this line of reasoning goes back to Toaster asking you why you weren't doing anything, to which you responded that you were waiting on Deathsword's flip. Immediately after Toaster asked how that'd affect your reads, to which you responded that it'd let you see how you were doing. A long bit of questioning later, most of which is quoted above, and the only explanation for why that's relevant to anything is that if we get low enough on Loyal Guards the Traitors can openly rebel.

Ergo, your only possibly motive for "waiting on Deathsword's flip" was to see if it was time to strike yet. Am I missing anything?

[Jim Groovester]

I don't like how you're avoiding the game so much.

I'm Pandarsenic and Vector right now, you know what that means?

MATH + MID TERMS

I'm only avoiding this game because the unholy union of perpetual examination and mathematics is haunting my nightmares so much.

Pass, won't be able to make a decision in time.

[Tiruin]

Going to be busy in the coming days. November holds very special traditions for my family and me.

I'll answer this and any other questions directed to me later on because busy IRL. Sorry. Popping in to ask current eye-catching questions though.

I don't get why you'd do it this way round.  Surely it only takes a couple of minutes to post  a few names in response to someone bolding your name while it takes longer to read entire posts and ask questions about them.

Usually when asked about my suspicions, I give details about why I suspect them regardless of alignment in any Mafia game I play.


As for suspicions, I'm curious on why Leafsnail is attacking Dariush over non-substance posts. Though, Dar does sound like he's tumbling over himself on allegories and hypothetical questions, including his...attacks on Leafsnail for presumed lying. And then we talk into the territory of obscured grammar which holds no land for anyone yet it seems like his very weapon.

Toony is also in my sights, because it seems like he's giving around opinions without backing them up. This rings me as suspicious. What does the flip have to do with who is left - Loyal/Traitor other than give a vague impression of who still lives. A rough estimate amounts to 4/4 + Prince, but its just an estimate.

Jim is unsure, but due to RL his sparing posts are valid. I know how it feels. :/ On a minor note, I don't like how he handwaved my request of defining an OMGUS 'in this context'.

Jim: Suspects and current reads on people? Also, please define OMGUS in this context. The newbie has a different definition than yours, it seems.
Toaster: Suppose you're a Loyal Swordsmaster, if the Prince and yourself were both not under attack, would you defend other people? What do you feel about Dariush's case?
Dariush: Can ye sum up your case on your target.
Toony: Why do you want the Prince to show his prowess? Meaning, why do you want to see him attack or defend?

[Toaster]

Quiet day, so I'll post my reads.


Dariush:  Full of rage.  Makes nonsensical arguments.  Has made only one post this turn, and it's mostly self defense and nitpicking.

Jim Groovester:  Quiet, citing RL.  No real objections to anything he's done so far otherwise.

Leafsnail:  No objections here either.

Tiruin:  I don't like the crap he put out about OMGUS early on.  Come D3, with his main suspect dead, he seems to have lost focus a bit and doesn't have a solid target after being very sure on Deathsword.

I also have a bit of a negative gut feeling on him, but it's vague and undefined.

ToonyMan:  Put down the first attack of the game, which doesn't surprise me at all- totally within his meta.  He spent a fair chunk of time for the rest of D1 defending that action, which also isn't surprising.  He fired off an attack his first post of D2, which followed stated suspicions, so still not a problem.

What is a problem is that he's done nothing like that today.  He changed from impulsive and aggressive to cautious and methodical.  He claimed that flips would affect his reads, but the only affect I've seen is that he's now being slow and cautions.  Why?



Leafsnail:  What is your read on Tiruin?


Tiruin:

As for suspicions, I'm curious on why Leafsnail is attacking Dariush over non-substance posts. Though, Dar does sound like he's tumbling over himself on allegories and hypothetical questions, including his...attacks on Leafsnail for presumed lying. And then we talk into the territory of obscured grammar which holds no land for anyone yet it seems like his very weapon.

Could you expand on this?  I'm not sure what conclusions you're drawing.

Toaster: Suppose you're a Loyal Swordsmaster, if the Prince and yourself were both not under attack, would you defend other people? What do you feel about Dariush's case?

It's not something I'd rule out, but it's pretty unlikely.  I tend to trust myself to find scum better than to find town, so I'd focus on the offense more.

Dariush's case?  It's crap.

Why are you going back to RVS-style questions at this stage in the game?


Toony:  Why the sudden change in gameplay?  What's changed to make Dariush not instantly attackable?

[Tiruin]

Toaster
Didn't lose focus, just re-reading everything because I spent the first two 'days' fighting a quibbling guardsman. And an undefined gut feeling? You can have those? Explains, please.

Why are you going back to RVS-style questions at this stage in the game?

Additional conversation.

I tend to trust myself to find scum better than to find town

How is this proven in a game like this?

Also, it seems like Dariush is being evasive - not answering...

...

I slice Dariush with my sword and hit Dariush again with my pommel!

To stop this madness.

[Tiruin]

EBWOP: Splitting posts using ctrl + x then hitting post instead of preview :/

Tiruin:

As for suspicions, I'm curious on why Leafsnail is attacking Dariush over non-substance posts. Though, Dar does sound like he's tumbling over himself on allegories and hypothetical questions, including his...attacks on Leafsnail for presumed lying. And then we talk into the territory of obscured grammar which holds no land for anyone yet it seems like his very weapon.

Could you expand on this?  I'm not sure what conclusions you're drawing.

Non-substance posts = Posts that are out of context, attempting to inflict an effect on the emotions of the reader and cause a reaction in turn. It's a meta of Dariush's RAEG ability hence my question. While it is a meta idea, I'm fairly suspicious after a re-read, noticing that he did ignore my posts on him but only engaging in a duel (of words) against Leafsnail.

[Toaster]

Tiruin:

Toaster
Didn't lose focus, just re-reading everything because I spent the first two 'days' fighting a quibbling guardsman. And an undefined gut feeling? You can have those? Explains, please.

Undefined as I don't trust you and I'm not sure why.

Non-substance posts = Posts that are out of context, attempting to inflict an effect on the emotions of the reader and cause a reaction in turn. It's a meta of Dariush's RAEG ability hence my question. While it is a meta idea, I'm fairly suspicious after a re-read, noticing that he did ignore my posts on him but only engaging in a duel (of words) against Leafsnail.

This is pretty vague, but doubleattacking Dariush is pretty clear.

What's your view on Leafsnail?

[ToonyMan]

Ergo, your only possibly motive for "waiting on Deathsword's flip" was to see if it was time to strike yet. Am I missing anything?

I said "we're", not "I am".  As I mentioned before I wanted to know how "we're doing" as in the situation.  You also framed your last sentence with the loyal guards and traitors to be favorable to your argument when it is in fact incorrect.  I don't want that to happen, people might not find that understandable which is clear because I had to actually explain it per request.

Toony: Why do you want the Prince to show his prowess? Meaning, why do you want to see him attack or defend?

Because the game will die if nobody dies, quite fitting.  Since IronyOwl is actually around it would be good to see him attack and he didn't respond to it, but I had a good post earlier (the bottom statements).

Toony:  Why the sudden change in gameplay?  What's changed to make Dariush not instantly attackable?

I was going to do it last night, but I never had the chance to *cough Halloween cough*.

PPE:

I slice Dariush with my sword and hit Dariush again with my pommel!
To stop this madness.

I will add my attack Dariush to make sure he stays dead.

[Toaster]

Toony:  That doesn't answer my question.  D2 your first post you attacked Dariush, no questions asked.  D3 you have five posts where you go back and forth with him and others, and it takes you to day end to attack him.  That's a very noticeable difference- why?

[ToonyMan]

Toony:  That doesn't answer my question.  D2 your first post you attacked Dariush, no questions asked.  D3 you have five posts where you go back and forth with him and others, and it takes you to day end to attack him.  That's a very noticeable difference- why?

Oh, I wanted to give Dariush a chance today (this prevents tunneling) and it saves my attack for if anybody else posts something that sets my alarm bells off.  Turn 3 has definitely been the quietest turn so far though, we could chalk that up to less people alive but everybody hasn't even attacked while previous turns had much larger turnouts (I think turn 1 was everybody but the Prince, turn 2 is about that as well).  And it's worth saying converts don't exist Toaster.

[ToonyMan]

If you're online Dariush (as I checked now) can you at least say something?  I don't feel like Caz was able to say any last words either.

Also Toaster, not attacking this turn?

[Toaster]

Toony:  I see.

And it's worth saying converts don't exist Toaster.

I realize that there's no cult or anything, but this is still suspiciously specific denial.  It's like you're looking for something to be defensive about.

If you're online Dariush (as I checked now) can you at least say something?  I don't feel like Caz was able to say any last words either.

Also Toaster, not attacking this turn?

Nope.  Too little happened, and my content came too late in the day.

[Dariush]

Hm, looks like I'm doomed. Well, bummer. Pass.

Meph, you know I love and respect your games, but this one was, frankly, utter shit. Two main reasons: the scum don't know each other and there's no way to gain alignment-related information. At all. As a result, every turn turns into day one, where there are no leads at all and everyone is stumbling in the dark. Including scum. The Prince's role is completely pointless - he can't be attacked (because doing so would doom the attacker) and he doesn't know anything useful. Any skill at all is eliminated from the game and it comes down to luck, aka which alignment the scummier (and thus lynched) guys happen to have. No leads can be extracted from this, since nobody knows anything. No new information is introduced into the game, which is the biggest problem, really. There's no difference between 'town' and 'scum' - the roles can just as well be reversed, with town needing to eliminate bad Prince and scum to defend him. Also, the safest (aka the least luck-influenced) way for scum to play would be to attack Prince D1 and hope other scum are sufficiently sane to follow their example.

I could write more, but I'm way too sick and my head hurts like hell (thus the above paragraph may be slightly incoherent). But really, this is so bad. Gah.

Also, dear Piece of dumbfuck cretinshit aka Leafsnail: confirmed townies are not omniscient nor infallible. Arguing with them is not a sign of scummitude even in a game where such a thing even means anything. Fuck you, idiot.

[Mephansteras]

  A lull in the battle, perhaps caused by the stark realization that men who were once brothers in arms are now enemies with no one they can trust?

  Leafsnail, Tiruin, and Toonyman all turn on Dariush and cut him down where he stands. So shocked by the ferocity of the attacks the Stalwart Guard doesn't even get a chance to raise his shield. As he collapses, he curses the Traitors who would turn against their Prince for gold. He was a Loyal Guard.
 
  All of the other guards stand off a bit, either too tired, too shocked, or too cautious to do anything themselves.


Caz has sustained 4 Wounds and has been slain!
Deathsword has sustained 4 Wounds and has been slain!
Tiruin has sustained 1 Wound
Dariush has sustained 5 Wounds and has been slain!

Turn 3 has Ended. Any unused Actions were wasted.

Turn 4 Started and will End ~10am Pacific Tuesday, or when all Actions have been made or Passed

@Dariush: It's a bit of an experiment. The game Bang! is quite fun, at least played in real life. So I figured I'd see how well it works as a forum game. It's quite possible that it doesn't, but I figured it's worth a try.