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Author Topic: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?  (Read 21469 times)

NRDL

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2012, 07:55:31 pm »

What time period do you think this should be set in? 
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Neonivek

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2012, 07:56:42 pm »

What time period do you think this should be set in?

The Sims time.

Or rather it is a fake time period that includes ancient tech all the way to modernity.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2012, 07:59:59 pm »

I was thinking bronze age, with a smattering of higher tech.  Like, I don't know when the plow was developed, but it seems important here.  And I don't know how long certain animals have been domesticated, but that seems important too.  Basically, "Ancient, but allowing for things to slip in if they're fun."

Lectorog

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2012, 08:01:58 pm »

Having a town doesn't make the game directly easier. You can't huddle up in town, because you'll have no money for food and will die. You can't farm just outside of town because the good farming ground there is going to be taken.
The element of panic at having nothing to guide you is nice, but considering that you still have other farms, so I don't think towns will detract significantly from that.
You don't have to include town life or anything; keeping the focus on farms, you could make visiting town an abstracted deal during which the only action available is trade (and perhaps select other things like hear news).
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NRDL

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2012, 08:07:17 pm »

I was rather hoping for a gun toting Oregon Trail sort of thing. 

I'm frankly more interested in the combat aspect, at least so far.  What do you planned for that? 
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dennislp3

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2012, 08:08:07 pm »

Hmm... maybe soil near town is very poor quality, and crops are tasteless and small?  You have to venture out to find fertile soil?
Traffic and construction have ruined any vegetation and left many rocks and random crap in the land right around town. Hard soil due to no vegetation?

I'm also debating how to handle time.  365 day years would get rather boring rather fast, and players would probably quit before harvest came in.

I have tossed around 1 "day" = 1 week (52 day year) or perhaps even 1 "day" = 1 month (12 day year).

another good medium might be 1 "day" = 14 days aka a fortnight (~26 day year)


I was thinking bronze age, with a smattering of higher tech.  Like, I don't know when the plow was developed, but it seems important here.  And I don't know how long certain animals have been domesticated, but that seems important too.  Basically, "Ancient, but allowing for things to slip in if they're fun."

plows were developed long ago...the exact mechanics of it and construction varied by culture and age...but everyone as far back as the Egyptians and further had a plow of some sort.

Same goes for domestication...long before recorded history.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2012, 09:03:16 pm »

Combat is likely to work on a per-limb basis and a rudimentary DF-like 'layers of tissue' though not nearly as deep as DF.  Bone, muscle, fat, skin, hair, and then clothing.  Hair will only apply to certain animals, naturally.  You can deal damage to limbs, torso, and head by varying degrees depending on if it's blunt, slashing, or piercing.  Injuries will heal over time, to an extent.  Bruises will heal on their own.  Cuts will heal over time, but be aided by medical treatment.  Broken limbs will heal over time if they're in a cast, and if a cast/splint/clamp/whatevs is not applied, then it will count as "permanently broken" as it heals crooked.

In combat, you'll be able to move towards an enemy to attack, with toggle options for "attack to kill" or "attack to maim", or to do something like shift+move to call a targeted shot.  I'd also like to add pushing, where you can shove an enemy to another tile and incur a move penalty on them, likely using the same button that you use to smash up terrain.  Debating wrestling, to let you subdue an opponent, but most likely not, as fights will be quick and brutal, and a mere handful of strikes can close a fight.

As for time, I'm debating for 1 'week' = 1 month so there'd be 12 weeks a year, and 84 days a year.  This seems like a lot, and to compensate there will likely be some long-term actions.  Like building a wall could take 20 hours total., and a 5x5 hut with 3x3 interior might take, what 20 days, so that's 1/4 of the year, not counting sleep and food and tending the farm so more like all year.  Having employees help and having tents will help.

NRDL

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2012, 09:09:02 pm »

Nice.  But doesn't wrestling help in a real fight, to some degree?  It's not unrealistic. 
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Girlinhat

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2012, 09:16:14 pm »

Wrestling only helps if you're facing a wrestler.  If the other guy's got a sword he's gonna stab you.  And wolves have like a dozen swords in their mouth, and like two dozen on the ends of their feet.  So wrestling might be useful in a bar fight, but then punching is much more reliable.

NRDL

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2012, 09:23:03 pm »

I suppose.  What weapons are you going to implement?  Can stuff like spades and rakes be used as weapons? 
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Girlinhat

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2012, 09:37:34 pm »

Ideally, I think anything you can hold should be a weapon.  Swords, axes, wood axes, spades, hoes, tomatoes, pieces of log, unfinished pieces of wall...  Cataclysm has modeled this best - every item has a defined weight, blunt, slash, and pierce.  "Movement points used per attack" is derived from the weight and size, and the damage dealt is based on the damage data and your strength and skill with that type of attack.  So you can use a sword to swing around, or you can grab a gold bar and bash people with it.  Literally every item is a weapon, simply because every item (including corpses) has values defined.

While I'm on the subject though, I had an idea for weapons...  It's very abstract, not sure if I'd use it for this particular game, but it could be incredibly fun.  The basic idea is to let the player create any weapon they could design.  The design method would be a grid of tiles, and on each tile you can define a thickness.  The thickness would range from "razor thin" to "it's a solid rock" and would determine the difficulty of creating and the weapon properties.  For instance, a sword would be defined as a row of thin bits, a row of thicker bits, and another row of thin bits - or just the one edge if you're ok with that.  When used as an attack, then it would act as if the leading edge struck the enemy.  Thin parts would be more likely to penetrate, while higher surface area would cause a loss of force and more shallow penetration, with very large weapons just resorting to blunt damage.  In this way, you could design a pickaxe made for penetrating armor, much like an ice-climber's hand pick.  Or you could make a hammer with a spike in the middle of the head, so that the large weight would give you a sure penetration and then the following blunt would shatter the weakened structure.  Certain properties would be used for tools as well, like the edge size would count for chopping wood or harvesting crops, while the size of the blunt face would be used for metalwork or driving nails.  If a piece was too thin, it would be likely to dull or break off entirely, so razor swords would shatter too frequently, and the weight of the weapon would determine its impact force, so an axe for splitting firewood would need a lot of weight behind it.  Ideally each weapon would have three modes, to swing, thrust, or swing the rear side.  It should be entirely possible to make a pickaxe with a sharp point and a large blunted backside, so that you could mine your ore, then flip the weapon over and pound it into ingots.

But I don't think I'll be using this in this particular game.  It seems a bit too complicated for the setting, though it would be extremely fun to see how players design their weapons and how they handle different materials.  After all, an iron razor sword would surely shatter, but perhaps copper bends a little more and would hold up longer?

Thecard

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2012, 09:52:26 pm »

Honestly, the thing that really sticks out to me here are the employees.  Are you going to give them random stats, so you can have one guy who is really good at carpentry and another that is amazing at animal husbandry?  And loyalty modifiers, that are somewhat randomized but you can affect them by giving them preferential treatment?  Because that doesn't seem like it would be too hard to do, and would add a lot of depth.  Of course, I don't really know, I have no experience with this.
Also, will you be basically overseeing a compound?  Hiring your own traders to go in to town and arrange purchases without you having to go in?  That way, you would basically tell your most loyal (or maybe your most clever) man into town.  He would make the purchases you tell him to, based on his intelligence.  How much money it would take would depend on his intelligence and loyalty.  That would remove you from the town, and allow the trader's inventory to be random, and allow the possibility that they have anything.  No merchant in his right mind would bring actual tons of some good to you, if you're out in the wilderness.  But they would bring it to the town.

I hope my ideas are helpful!
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NRDL

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2012, 09:55:54 pm »

How would one pay employees?  Barter?  Through currency? 
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Girlinhat

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2012, 10:02:56 pm »

Not entirely sure.  I may just rely on my only knowledge of such things, Of Mice and Men, where the main characters are described as working the farm in exchange for food, a place to sleep, and barely enough money to really count as money.  The big thing though, was that they paid no overhead, food and shelter were provided for them.  Similarly, I think most of your expenses with employees will be things like fire for the stove to keep them warm at night, and a portion of the crops to keep them fed.  They may also ask for a paltry monthly pay in coin or, more likely, goods, so you may have to pay them with lush animal pelts or fresh tobacco.  Long-term employees may be happy with a place to sleep and warm food, although a bonfire or a round of drinks wouldn't hurt, while transient employees would want some pay so that they can skip on to the next farm with some profit.

NRDL

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Re: Let's make a roguelike, amateur programming at its... finest?
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2012, 10:07:28 pm »

Will any groups try to impinge on your  land?  Raiders, political organisations, other farmers wanting to take your property, that sort of thing?
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