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[Furtuka]

I believe he's referring to smeding and that one other guy who popped up on the irc during the incident

[Flying Dice]

I believe he's referring to smeding and that one other guy who popped up on the irc during the incident

This. They openly admitted to coming into the channel solely for the purpose of trolling people.

[GoombaGeek]

I missed incident

How does anyone cause drama on IRC anyway?

[Flying Dice]

Presumably by acting to intentionally cause it.

[GoombaGeek]

But the conversations should go like
"go knife yourself"
"no"
*kick*

not
"go knife yourself"
"OMG DEATH THREATS I HATE YOU"

[kaijyuu]

I believe he's referring to smeding and that one other guy who popped up on the irc during the incident

Ding ding ding.

They've lurked. This thread and the channel. I'm also speaking to anyone who might have similar ideas.


And yeah, the drama's completely gone from the channel.

But the conversations should go like
"go knife yourself"
"no"
*kick*

not
"go knife yourself"
"OMG DEATH THREATS I HATE YOU"

Essentially, yes.

[LordNagash]

I'd just like to say that smeding and G-Flex are both acting entirely on their own, and them causing any drama isn't something that is organised or condoned by #bay12games. I just don't want us getting a worse reputation than we apparently already have over this whole thing, when we don't have anything to do with it.

To chime in on the moderation thing with a bit of advice, from the prospective of #bay12games we found that leaving moderation fairly loose and open was fine when we only had a few regulars around (say, less than 10 people active at one time), but when you get into a more active channel you really need to have some more firm moderation policies in place, as people *will* try and act like dicks and then tell you to "Point out which rule I broke!! You can't say I broke any rules when there aren't any!!" and various other rules lawyering nonsense to stir up more drama.

[kaijyuu]

It's cool dude. Both those are still allowed in this channel. Smeding even has brought up some decent conversation

Consider it "blown over," at least on my end.


If the channel gets that big I might just suggest splitting it anyway. I can't see much good (besides spam) coming from ~80 active members.

[LordNagash]

You'll never get 80 *active* members, the majority of people in an IRC channel are always going to be idlers. There are people in #bay12games I've never seen say anything in the entire time they've been there.

The only time it got close to that was when DF2010 was released, and we got up to about 200-300 people in the channel, and yeah that was basically unworkable. There's definitely an upper limit on how many people can really talk in an IRC channel at the same time, but you probably won't hit it.

Oh, and on the other thing from earlier in the thread: Banning dissent is definitely a bad idea. Trolls will use it to get your regular members in trouble by riling them up so they snap and then complaining to you, for one.

[kaijyuu]

Peeps can yell at me all they like. I'm not banning that.

[Zangi]

Possible solution to trolling is to derail it... give on-lookers something more interesting to talk about.

[freeformschooler]

Yeah, if you have ~80+ ACTIVE members, you're reaching #starbound levels of insanity. At that point I'd jump ship and let everyone else claw each other's eyes out.

[smeding]

One thing:

To chime in on the moderation thing with a bit of advice, from the prospective of #bay12games we found that leaving moderation fairly loose and open was fine when we only had a few regulars around (say, less than 10 people active at one time), but when you get into a more active channel you really need to have some more firm moderation policies in place, as people *will* try and act like dicks and then tell you to "Point out which rule I broke!! You can't say I broke any rules when there aren't any!!" and various other rules lawyering nonsense to stir up more drama.

As far as I know (as one of the more active ops in #bay12games), we have *no* moderation policy, specifically /because/ we tried that and people kept rules lawyering. Operators act on their own with a general idea of what we do and don't tolerate, and it works out pretty well, other than the occasional upset newbie who got joke-kicked by yours truly. That's not something that happens a lot, though.

And yes, I'd say the whole drama thing has blown over. I'm still there and trying to help out a little, since I appreciate having a separate channel for all the bullshit we don't want to deal with. Occasionally there's even normal conversation instead of torrents of nick-changes, smilies and tired old memes!

Edit:

Possible solution to trolling is to derail it... give on-lookers something more interesting to talk about.

This. Never. Works.

Seriously, never.

[kaijyuu]

I tried rather vague and simple rules at the start, then I got someone asking "lol what'd I do wrong?"

[G-Flex]

First off, who was the source of every single piece of drama that happened in my channel? No one who frequents the lower boards. Every. Single. Instance. Was started by someone from #bay12games. Two things to take from that: one, don't be condescending toward my channel if your'e the cause of the issues in it, and two, perhaps this sheds a little more light on why I made a new channel in the first place.

Actually, yeah, I do frequent the lower boards, just not the ones I find awful and pointless, and I don't post as often as some people.

Next, what the hell type of people do you normally associate with where "don't be an ass" is an unreasonable rule? Assholes, I'm guessing. There are wretched hives of scum and villainy for such people. They can stay in such, not my channel. Drama is not a common issue in communities I frequent. If it is in the places you do, I don't think the problem lies in how I deal with things.

It's not a common issue in places I frequent either, and it's less "don't be an ass" and more the apparent nuances and specifics that seemed problematic.

Also, "hugboxes." I presume you mean "echo chambers" by this. An echo chamber is a community where every dissenting opinion is either pushed aside and ignored, or doesn't exist for some other reason. I dispute the notion that my channel (and by the extension, the lower boards) are an example of this (barring some issues with the political threads -- dissenting opinions are crushed abrasively quite often there), because I do not ban dissenting opinions of any fashion. Only attitudes. Abrasive, jerkass behavior has no place here, not because of what they say, but what kind of person says it. I feel such a person will bring nothing of value to my channel, whether they agree with anything or not.

I get your general point here, but "someone who has this one specific flaw will never have anything of value to add to conversation, ever" is pretty awful thinking. Being an abrasive jerkass is only one of very many ways in which a person can act awful on IRC, and nobody's attitude is perfect. Don't get so hung up over one personality trait; it doesn't make everything those people do or say totally illegitimate; there are plenty of people who aren't "abrasive jerkasses" but who still contribute virtually nothing to discussion or even cause problems actively, and there are plenty of of people who are "abrasive jerkasses" who do contribute.

I'm open to criticism. I'm open to dissenting opinions. If I only wanted people who agreed with me, I'd of banned half of you already for daring suggest I'm doing something wrong. But I'm not doing that. Continue to criticize, if you so wish. Go ahead and giggle at my antics in your channel, if you want. Outright crucify me. I can take it. I will not accept abrasive behavior toward those under my wing though, unless you do it privately and abstain from harassing them. If you try it in my channel, you'll face me.

"Those under my wing"? Dude, it's an IRC channel. You're nobody's parent or guardian angel or whatever the hell. Stop it with the self-importance.