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[bombzero]

-snip-

I won't lie and say your post doesn't strike me as a little odd, but I do not see any real issue with your choice of behavior. you know what I mean?

Although I do feel inclined to inquire about your motives for this... choice? change? alteration?

[Nilocy]

@Bombzero Oh yeah, forgot to mention I prefer the use of female pronouns online, just for future reference : )

@Goombageek
1. In general people don't. But seriously, its hard being a minority in this homogenised world. I don't like playing the oppressed card so I'll leave it there.

2. Yep, thats how everyone I feel should be. I have two mantras in life, both connected. I'm fine with anyone believing/thinking/doing what they want so long as they're overall happy with it but so long as their happiness isn't stopping other people from achieving it. And not forcing anyone to think differently, I like to show evidence for what ever I'm doing and let them make up their minds for themselves.

3. Unfortunately activism for any cause is going to piss of someone somewhere. I consider myself a trans activist and pissing off the majority is what I like most. It means I must be doing something right Just me being me pisses the majority off. I try not to talk down or act superior over anyone. I talk to them as any individual as fairly and polite as possible to challenge their ideas and misconceptions about topics about situations I want to improve.

4. Yeah, its a serious problem that minority (and majority) groups have to be aware of. Its that classic thing of people of the same world outlook will tend to congregate together and exclude people who don't think the same way as them. This usually leads to hostility (as seen in this thread) when discussions arise, both sides will be so firmly entrenched in their own way of thinking that they exclude the possibility that they may be wrong. However, when you mention the idea of people wanting to be accepted think of it from the other side of the fence, when you're in the minority. You come face to face with the constant pressure to conform to the majority will whether it good or bad. This pressure is passive and active all the time. You have subtle reminders of what 'normal' should be. You can't step a foot out of the door without someone reminding you with a stare or a gawping mouth at how you look or act. You're being judged negatively for not fitting within the persons, and by extension societies, purviews of how you should look and act. It raises the question of "Why should I conform so someone else can be happier about themselves?" and "what reaction will happen when I challenge this person about this?". It isn't fair on the individual being judged so negatively about who they are or pressured to conform to have to change themselves so much that they lose sight of being an individual. It's an extremely subjective thing, but for me that pressure was so great that it reduced me to a ball of tears most nights, contemplating suicide as a means of escaping it. Some interesting statistics for you. 83% of trans people have considered suicide. 1/3rd have attempted it. You tell me if thats a fair result of being treated in society the way we are.

So yeah... I'm an activist because I detest the way people like me are treated by others at large. I speak out at every opportunity I see someone not being fair to gender and sexual minorities. Because honestly, its suprising how hurtful people can be when they don't realise what they're saying. And yes, this requires CONSTANT reminding. And unfortunately its going to take a lot more pissing off of people and society to get those equal rights I and my fellow trans* deserve. If you're lucky to be part of a majority that isn't oppressed (yay!) and you do want to help, then by all means I'm happy to have you on board we always need more people to help us shout for equal treatment. But remember, you haven't experienced things the way we have and most likely will never. We get this. We're no better or worse for it. Just don't get hurt when we exclude you from certain topics. We're not trying to exclude you, it's just we gotta have our own time with ourselves to talk about these things.

[Kogan Loloklam]

Not how? Not stunned silence? But why?

The Everest answer. Because they are there. Why else not? Exploration of your gender is something the youngest child does. Most women know of the wonderful sensory input the breast gives. It's just smaller for guys. Easily overlooked. Look at the face of a woman as she breastfeeds though... Yep, it's as good as it looks.

[Truean]

I have never been able to understand most modern philosophies concerning differences: gender neutrality, etc. Different isn't bad, so replacing he and she with some gender neutral pronoun sorta kills zee differences. It shouldn't be that the differences get eliminated as much as they should be made equal....

Enter Gender Roles.... The notion of "eliminating" them doesn't seem necessary to me. I have no idea how we find it easier to fundamental reshape societal than to chill the hell out and regard people as equal.... The mind, it boggles. Boggles I say....

The notion that I'm somehow less than for being feminine is just sorta nuts, but by god most people really believe that, nonsensically as a rule, but there's not a whole lot to be done about it. It also goes to my other traits, to be fair and if we're keeping score. I tend not to bullshit people, which for some reason they like (they hear what they wanna hear). [shrugs].

[Nilocy]

Good on you Kogan I guess lol.

Yeah, our biology isn't as clear cut as black and white or male/female. Theres so much overlap in such a complex system as the human body that its currently impossible to give a definite answer on who or what is male or female (or neither or both or what ever).

The who sex determination is a really fucking interesting subject. Testosterone and Oestrogen are amazing hormones. T is fucking nuts in what it does to the human body. And the fact that we're essentially sexless after conception until the first burst of testosterone (hence male nipples). Man, I hate what testosterone did to my body. I wish I'd had learned who I was earlier and dealt with it then instead of waiting 20 years : ( But I've come to accept it, I like my penor but if I had the choice I'd go for a 100% working vag any day.

Edit: @Truean Theres a load that you can do about it. Take to the streets, sign petitions, sit on gender recognitio groups boards, futher the equality march by voicing your opinions to the woooooooorldddd

[misko27]

Use of female pronouns? I don;t know, I default to male, because of the fact that the population is largely male. And this time I have numbers.

1. I'm a oppresed Minority. I'm a poor Yugoslav. In terms of being cut up and oppresed, we're practically worse then Poland. That all I have to say about that.

3. I see no need to piss people off. In fact, it is detrimental. You are arousing the ire of the general population, the all mighty force whitch determines norms and laws. Thats just bad. The Real aim is to convince people. If you want to piss people off, go play liberal crime squad.

Not how? Not stunned silence? But why?

The Everest answer. Because they are there. Why else not? Exploration of your gender is something the youngest child does. Most women know of the wonderful sensory input the breast gives. It's just smaller for guys. Easily overlooked. Look at the face of a woman as she breastfeeds though... Yep, it's as good as it looks.

Eww.

[Durin Stronginthearm]

Every single gain made by a disadvantaged minority has come as a product of activism which pissed a good number of people off, not by pandering to the mores of the majority. To be able to say things like

If a group is a minority and proceeds to do things which would be socially unacceptable for a majority member to do towards them, then it really just wedges the divide further apart.

you have to be ignorant of the Suffragettes, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, Stonewall....and those are just a few examples from the last hundred years or so.

EDIT: formatting

[bombzero]

Every single gain made by a disadvantaged minority has come as a product of activism which pissed a good number of people off, not by pandering to the mores of the majority. To be able to say things like

If a group is a minority and proceeds to do things which would be socially unacceptable for a majority member to do towards them, then it really just wedges the divide further apart.

you have to be ignorant of the Suffragettes, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, Stonewall....and those are just a few examples from the last hundred years or so.

EDIT: formatting

Aye, but that is true activism, not simply trying to anger people, and not what Nilocy does either.
What I mean is that many people use their difference as a tool to inflame others, then hide behind the word "discrimination", "racist" and all their synonymous terms.

There is a stark difference between activism and being an entitled asshole because you are different.

[Cthulhu]

I wouldn't be opposed to the addition of a genderless singular pronoun, because "they" is technically wrong and "he or she" is ugly as hell.

I'm male, heterosexual, no identity conflicts or issues or anything.  I say do what you want.

[misko27]

I wouldn't be opposed to the addition of a genderless singular pronoun, because "they" is technically wrong and "he or she" is ugly as hell.

I'm male, heterosexual, no identity conflicts or issues or anything.  I say do what you want.

Yes, english lacks a neuter pronoun. "It" is not considered acceptable.

[bombzero]

I wouldn't be opposed to the addition of a genderless singular pronoun, because "they" is technically wrong and "he or she" is ugly as hell.

I'm male, heterosexual, no identity conflicts or issues or anything.  I say do what you want.

Interesting idea, this would make internet courtesy much, much easier in the world of gender ambiguous nicknames.

Yes, English lacks a neuter pronoun. "It" is not considered acceptable.

And like this guy said, "It" is generally perceived as rude due to it being a term for referring to inanimate objects.

[Nilocy]

I use it to sometimes refer to my girlfriend. She considers herself genderneutral and doesn't care. 'Its' a much loved source of hilarity.

Edit: Interesting, that use of It in that sentence has 3 different meanings attached to it.

[Duke 2.0]

 This is gonna be touchy, and there is no proper way of explaining my position without going into a huge religious debate which none of us want in this thread. So I'll just get some basic concepts of my spirituality down that directly relate to this.

 So the basic idea of this is duality. Yin/Yang, Positive charges/Negative charges, Creator/Creation, Masculinity/Femininity(The part where issues come up), etc. The idea being that both these aspects need eachother to exist and are equals. There are references to dominance and submissiveness, but I don't really consider this a strict aspect of the equation and do have questions regarding it I want to ask specific people.

 Masculine and Feminine as we see it are general categories of morals. Masculine morals emphasize personal maturity, where Feminine morals emphasize maturity in how we interact to eachother and the world. So Masculine morals would be Endurance, Courage, perfecting ones talents, etc. Feminine morals would include Compassion, Justice, Beauty(Goddam that will be a derail to explain fully) and Mercy.

 From what I understand the sexes have affinities for their respective spheres of morals, but there was a large emphasis on there being no hard line. The young women with me were told that they should mature the masculine morals, and the men to mature the feminine morals. There was importance placed on relating to members of the opposite sex to better understand their morals to mature your own.

Spoiler: I guess more personal/more to do with my personal spirituality? I really don't want this to get into a religious debate (click to show/hide)

 On a strictly personal standpoint I need to point out that I was born into this and had no real reason to abandon it. At various points I did think to myself "If this theology goes to these places I'll leave the faith", those major points progressing from "Ritual suicide with the leader"(Only considered because of other cults, not influenced by actions of the church) to "Men dominating women." I'm sticking with this because it does not violate these things important to me.

 I also grew up without any transgender or gay people physically present. I only interacted with these people online. At a young age I had to resolve how this spirituality works in relation to my new friends, not really ready to abandon my friends but not really ready to abandon my beliefs. I always sought a way to both hold the base teachings true and treat my friends with respect and love, not pulling any passive aggressive conversion crap. All my friends said they were going through similar things, all the adults I ask commend me for my heart and try to help me out, finding people more familiar with the teachings. I don't consider my spirituality and my relations to gays and transgenders contradictory. I want us both to live in peace and happiness.

[penguinofhonor]

You know, I don't really have any problems with that. My only qualm would be why it's necessary to refer to the categories of morals as masculine and feminine if everyone should mature all of them. Is each gender viewed as naturally being better at one half of them?

[bombzero]

-snip-

Honestly when you explain it like that it doesn't sound like it is against feminine males or masculine females.
Hell, that could even be interpreted as approving a masculine female and feminine male relationship if you think about it. As the yin/yang type view only really states explicitly you need both types for there to be balance in the world.