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[mainiac]

Um... I just noticed a really strange thing.  All the artillery pieces of the imperial eye appear to have 4 movement points.  All my artillery pieces have 0 as per NOVA unit files.  Anyone know what's up with this?

[mainiac]

Turn is sent.  I have exacted my retribution upon Hawkwood.  They have suffered the disruption of their government in retribution for our vendetta.

No Hawkwood soldiers were killed by our agents in this affair, we merely disrupted their cities and temporarily seized resources.  We still remain receptive to ending this affair now, without bloodshed.

As of this time we continue to stake no claim on Leminkainen or other Hawkwood controlled worlds.  We are exacting retribution, not claiming territory.

[a1s]

That's apparently not illegal.

The byzantian representative Flavius Halan of House Li-Halan would like to propose an amendment to the TRIF to limit abuse of the Imperial Eye.

The amended treaty is as follows:

Spoiler: Treaty for the Regulation of Imperial Offices (as amended in 4967) (click to show/hide)

Article I. The Imperial Fleet
The duties of the Fleet Admiral Shall be restricted to the following:

• Maintaining a blockade against Symbiot ships attempting to cross into Human space at Stigmata
• Keeping the jump routes to and above Byzantium Secundus free from illegal blockade
• Enforcing quarantine upon plague ridden planets
• Maintaining the present size of the Fleet, and keeping the ships of the Fleet in combat-ready condition

Under no circumstances should the Imperial Fleet be used to bombard civilian targets or interfere with the sovereignty of the Royal Houses.

Article II. The Stigmata Garrison
The surface of Stigmata and the surface and jumpspace of the three Symbiot planets beyond (Absolution, Daishan, Chernobog) shall be recognized as the sovereign jurisdiction of the Garrison Commander. Under no circumstances are the military forces of the Stigmata Garrison to leave this designated jurisdiction. The duties of the Garrison Commander shall be restricted to the following:

• Keeping the surface of Stigmata itself free from Symbiot influence
• Maintaining the manufactories and military hardware of the Garrison in good working order
• Working to reclaim the three Symbiot planets for Humanity and exterminating the Symbiot threat once and for all

Article III. The Imperial Eye
The Imperial Eye shall limit itself to carrying out the following duties:

• Seeking out traitors and spies within the Empire
• Providing alternative oversight for the other 2 ministries
• Carry out intelligence operation outside the Empire
• Enforcing security of the emperor when one is chosen

Imperial Eye oversight in not meant to replace, but complement civilian oversight of the ministries.
Imperial Eye is expressly forbidden to attack other noble houses, the Guild, Church and (especially) the Imperial fief (except to retake I.E. planetary forts). All military actions against rebels and traitors should instead to be delegated to the Imperial Guard (once it is reestablished).

Article IV. Enforcement
Those Officers found in to be in violation of the terms of the treaty shall be removed from office at the earliest constitutional opportunity and they and their House banned from holding office for a period no less than 100 years.

Article V. Signatories
Those below agree to abide by and enforce the terms of the Treaty:

• Aywen Li of House Li-Halan
• Ghaz of House Decados
• Alvarex Hawkwood of House Hawkwood
• Lazarus Hazat of The Hazat

[mainiac]

That's apparently not illegal.

yuuuuuuuuuuuup

[a1s]

turn is sent, BTW.

[mainiac]

While the principles that you suggest are not unreasonable but your timing leaves much to be desired.  It would also be helpful if you were to agree to sign the treaty before trying to expand its scope.

[Azthor]

Azthor, I feel like you are seriously blurring the lines between in character and out of character communication here.  I want to say something to you, publicly, that is entirely out of character.  If anyone responds to this post please do so only in an out of character fashion because what I am offering here is entirely metagame analysis.

Out of character:

We are playing a 4X game here.  In this 4X game you expanded very aggressively.  You have far more buildings and planets then any other player but have fewer units defending them then any other player.  When you do this in a 4X game your opponents are going to respond in a logical way.  They are not going to sit around and wait for your economy to become overwhelming so you can defeat them at your leisure.  They are going to threaten you immediately so that you don't grow.  That's the difference between playing humans and playing the AI.  Humans see what you are doing and react to it.

Expanding aggressively is a completely acceptable move.  In no way do I begrudge you your choice or consider it illegitimate.  But you need to understand that it's not unsportsmanlike for me to respond in the logical fashion and attack your undefended belly.  We didn't agree to no rush-30 turns and we had no rules against attacking with ministry units at the first possible opportunity.  In character I encourage you to object to your hearts content, it makes for fun roleplaying.  But please keep those objections within the game and don't start making things out of character.  If you consider it an illegitimate tactic for me to attack you because you left your homeworld virtually defenseless then you should have stated so when we were agreeing on the rules.  There's nothing wrong with playing "no rush 50" but the players must agree to it at the start of the game.

I feel like this game is about negotiating, and wanted to offer you a chance to negotiate.  You do not seem to want to negotiate.  That's perfectly alright.  But I am now going to respond like a logical player of a 4X game and attack your base.

The preceding was all out of character.  Although there may have been parallels to IC motivations it was entirely metagame analysis.

On an unrelated note, I've decided not to grab Li Halan's undefended transports with the eye.  Li Halan may soon attack me but they have not done so yet.

On another unrelated note, Hawkwood and al-Malik are not "old allies".  There can be no friendship without communication and Hawkwood has not attempted to communicate with us at all.  I very much prefer the friendship of houses such as Decados and Hazat who have actually been willing to negotiate for mutual gain.

My only three OOC comments were;
1. The one between (())s.
2. The previous post from this one (because I realize I used "not win the game" instead of "not win the throne".
3. This one.

As it stands, using the eye in the fashion you are does not, in fact, contradict the bill.

[Ghazkull]

House Decados supports the Immediate taking effect of the modified bill.

[Azthor]

House Decados supports the Immediate taking effect of the modified bill.

As does House Hawkwood.

Note: while House Hawkwood will give the Eye time to retreat, should its controller sign the bill, any other outcome will probably result in the Eye's permanent removal from Delphi.

[mainiac]

Note: while House Hawkwood will give the Eye time to retreat, should its controller sign the bill, any other outcome will probably result in the Eye's permanent removal from Delphi.

House al-Malik is not satisfied with the bill at this time.  So... war?

[Karlito]

The Hazat will sign the amended treaty. At the time of writing I did not consider the Imperial Eye worth regulating, given it's comparatively small troop command and long history of independence.

Um... I just noticed a really strange thing.  All the artillery pieces of the imperial eye appear to have 4 movement points.  All my artillery pieces have 0 as per NOVA unit files.  Anyone know what's up with this?

((For the record, Fleet artillery has 0 movement as it should, so it's not a ministry problem))

((Also, turn sent))

[Azthor]

Note: while House Hawkwood will give the Eye time to retreat, should its controller sign the bill, any other outcome will probably result in the Eye's permanent removal from Delphi.

House al-Malik is not satisfied with the bill at this time.  So... war?

I'd say it comes down to whether the Fleet is willing to enforce the treaty. If yes, I doubt you will insist, if not, war it is.

[mainiac]

There is nothing in the treaty saying that the Fleet rescues you from the consequences of your actions...  I'm not blockading your route to Byzantium.

[Azthor]

There is nothing in the treaty saying that the Fleet rescues you from the consequences of your actions...  I'm not blockading your route to Byzantium.

Please, do take the time to read my post properly, "is willing to enforce" already denotes that the fleet is not compelled into it by the treaty.

[a1s]

Geez, Yusara, stop living in the 36th century. There will be no war. You will be impeached and a serf will be ceremonially burned in your image. You know, like a civilized person?