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Author Topic: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend  (Read 5427 times)

Captain Willy

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Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« on: October 07, 2012, 06:51:36 pm »

I god damn hate copper, every bloody embark I get copper ore. I have only got iron a handful of times. But it being the only metal I get my fortress runs on it.
Yet making a world that will always give me iron seems like cheating to me so I don't do it. I have a rule that I play the cards that are dealt to me and have to adapt.
I only wish one day I would be able to get iron. I only have dreams of steel, that is a myth to me.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 06:55:04 pm by Captain Willy »
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Gentlefish

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 06:54:34 pm »

It's better than nothing but gold and platinum and lead.

Captain Willy

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 06:57:10 pm »

It's better than nothing but gold and platinum and lead.

Cage trap fortress!
But then it gets boring I love combat...
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the woods

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 07:00:34 pm »

On all my embarks all I get is cassiterite. We should meet up sometime.
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Rude

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 07:06:02 pm »

Goblinite grows almost everywhere.

With the update to mining, it is MUCH more plausible to buy metals from the dwarf caravan. 1 ore yields 4 bars, and if you request the maximum possible, you get at least 4 ores. So if you can request 4 hematite, limonite, and magnetite; then you can net at least 48 iron bars per caravan which turn into 48 steel.
That is just from ore imports, you can still request 4 iron, 4 pig iron, and 4 steel bars for 12 more steel. After that you could buy useless stuff like iron armor from the dwarfs or large armor from humans and melt them down. Still isn't as easy as just mining it yourself though.

Also consider 4 pieces of casseiterite can produce 64 bismuth bronze bars. or 32 bronze bars.

With the mining changes, you can blow through a mountain of flux with just 1 or 2 magnetite clusters.

Better luck next time
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ExecratedDwarf

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2012, 07:57:39 pm »

Oh sweet magnetite clusters. My very first embark was on top of magnetite clusters. For those that don't know it is possible to find so much magnetite that it has veins of limonite in it. I've only found this one other time, but it was so magnificent to behold! I actually saved the region file and sometimes I embark there just to make pretty bedrooms of engraved magnetite.
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Nuoya

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2012, 09:30:06 pm »

Eventually I found the most important thing to be just having copper so I could train up armorsmithing. Iron would just be a bonus!
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C27

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2012, 10:29:15 pm »

I only wish one day I would be able to get iron. I only have dreams of steel, that is a myth to me.

Rumor has it that sedimentary layers that are rich in iron tend to be found under aquifers.
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Gold is for the mistress– silver for the maid–
Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.
‘Good!’ said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
‘But iron– cold iron– is ruler of them all’.

Nuoya

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2012, 10:34:13 pm »

I'd like to add that using reveal has shown me veins of iron ore that I absolutely never would have found. If your embark is multiple biomes then your exploratory mining has to cover all of your biomes
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Sutremaine

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2012, 11:42:31 pm »

You can always buy steel bars or steel items. Pig iron too, but you can only ever get bars of that and you need flux to convert it into steel. If I want extra steel I usually request steel anvils.  Unlike every other non-bar steel item you can request they don't arrive at higher than base quality and are never decorated, making their high base price more competitive. With the current melt rates it would probably be cheaper on average to request armour and buy even the *<<+diamond-studded steel leggings+>>*, but I don't like actively taking advantage of that.

Bronze and bismuth bronze are also always available for purchase, and they're pretty decent for weapons and armour while being much cheaper than steel.
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Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Gentlefish

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2012, 11:51:25 pm »

And once you get even a single bar of steel, you can then make Battle Axes and melt them down for a steel surplus. Picks, too.

Bigheaded

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 01:16:05 am »

always felt melting down stuff to somehow get more than you started with too cheating for me.


I find plenty of limonite without aquifers, i don't really see a connection.

I like tetrahedrite, get copper and silver which gives stuff for crappy armor and silver for some nice warhammers and maybe a few statues.
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I just found a barrel which contained a wheelbarrow. Inside the wheelbarrow was another barrel. I don't even understand how that is possible.

Telgin

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 01:44:35 am »

Copper and silver are great for bolts too.  With the current smelting yields, you can go to town with a marksdwarf army.
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 03:39:42 am »

Given the generally terrible metal choices that goblin weapons are made out of, Copper armor gives sufficient basic protection from loss of limbs.  Copper mail shirts and leggings are a vast improvement in protection over Leather armor.  Copper armor will withstand attacks from the copper and silver weaponry that goblins sometimes bring.  Iron or bronze or spears will cause problems, but even a little bit of armor can make a world of difference.

Once during a siege, an axe-goblin on a giant bat flew behind my walls, and as the bat randomly flew about, he brushed past my marksdwarf line, and in that momentary adjacency, with the swing of his axe, he cut a poor guy's leg clean off.  If he'd been wearing even copper leggings, he probably would have just had the leg shattered with maybe some minor nerve damage.

Point is, copper ain't the best, but if Copper is your only friend, you certainly could do worse (I'm looking at YOU Galena).  Any Weapon/Armor grade metal is a vast improvement over no metal.

Plus, if you have copper, Tin can be bought cheap from caravans, and bronze is a noble material.  I have a fort where my wonderful mountainhomes (who sell giant cave spiders and crocodiles) are also able to furnish Cassiterite and Bismuthinite in abundance, so my plentiful copper can all be converted into glorious golden Bismuth Bronze.

It does make you wonder what the purpose of Dwarven colonies is though, since you always seem to be importing raw materials (lumber, ore, metal), and selling crafts.  Do the mountainhomes have only the most basic of industries?  I thought the purpose of colonies was to provide raw materials for the homeland.  You won't get very far in DF though selling logs and metal bars.  Maybe the purpose of the dwarven settlements is just to create new places for dwarves to live, and this effort is being heavily subsidized by the MountainHome.  Why else would the traders be willing to give you bars of pure shining steel in exchange for a few tattered pigtail cloaks?  Maybe the Mountainhomes are starting to invent paper, and are scrounging up all of the loose fiber they can get their hands on.

But I digress.  It would be an interesting challenge to make a "Copper Only" fort, where your weapons and armor can only be made from copper, and see how well you fare against goblin attackers.  Would have to be a "gates open" challenge though, since otherwise you can just make boatloads of copper bolts and shoot up anything that comes close.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
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Captain Willy

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Re: Oh copper I hate you, yet you are my greatest friend
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 11:08:41 am »

But I digress.  It would be an interesting challenge to make a "Copper Only" fort, where your weapons and armor can only be made from copper, and see how well you fare against goblin attackers.  Would have to be a "gates open" challenge though, since otherwise you can just make boatloads of copper bolts and shoot up anything that comes close.

I've been doing that challenge pretty much every fort.
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