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[kaijyuu]

Also, I don't see how having an authority on something renders it objective. Who decides what counts as an authority?

That's why I said it'd have to be God or something similar Something with an authority over well, reality itself.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It is not an assumption that objective value cannot exist, it is an inherent aspect of objective meaning. Objective things exist without an observer, subjective things exist with an observer. Value is the assigned worth of something by an observer, and thus value is subjective.

The Sun is an objective thing. It exists whether anyone cares about it or not.

The Sun being bright is a subjective thing. What constitutes "bright" varies between observers.

[TSTwizby]

That is your definition of value. Mine allows for unobserved value.

[Fenrir]

Mind Projection Fallacy is clogging up my Internets.

What I am proposing is that I should act, for the reasons given, as though some sort of objective value exists. You appear to be assuming that no kind of objective value can exist.

Let’s assume some kind of objective value exists. Assume “EAT COOKIE” is on this invisible, cosmic litany of THINGS THAT MATTER™. Assume I never eat cookie. Assume Batman does. What is the difference? Is there some kind of cosmic “ATE COOKIE” register that keeps track of my violations and has some kind of impact on my life?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That is your definition of value. Mine allows for unobserved value.

Sounds like you're wrong, then.

[TSTwizby]

Mind Projection Fallacy is clogging up my Internets.

What I am proposing is that I should act, for the reasons given, as though some sort of objective value exists. You appear to be assuming that no kind of objective value can exist.

Let’s assume some kind of objective value exists. Assume “EAT COOKIE” is on this invisible, cosmic litany of THINGS THAT MATTER™. Assume I never eat cookie. Assume Batman does. What is the difference? Is there some kind of cosmic “ATE COOKIE” register that keeps track of my violations and has some kind of impact on my life?

Who knows? Any mechanism is irrelevant to the analysis as I wrote it, which is purely based on probabilities, which are themselves based on a few (hopefully clearly stated) assumptions. I do not believe that I am making any other assumptions beyond the basic axioms of probability and logic.

[Fenrir]

Who knows? Any mechanism is irrelevant to the analysis as I wrote it...

Then forget the ATE COOKIE register and tell me the difference between eating a cookie when eating cookies matters and not eating cookies when eating cookies matters. Future consequences? I want to know where you think “mattering” is out there in the territory.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

That is your definition of value. Mine allows for unobserved value.

define value.

[TSTwizby]

I'm pretty sure this won't satisfy anyone, but the closest thing I can get to a definition to this kind of 'value' or 'mattering' is that it is the most generic addition to a logic system which assigns a quality to actions which any specific action may or may not have (or alternately, that different actions have to varying degrees) and adds to the system an axiom stating that the choice of actions which maximises said quality is preferable to one which does not. The quality itself is the 'value' or 'quality', and which actions are assigned that quality are the 'what' in 'what matters'.

The question then is of whether or not such a modification can exist objectively. I maintain yes, most of you seem to say no.

[Fenrir]

...the choice of actions which maximises said quality is preferable to one which does not.

What is preferable changes with the person doing the preferring and the circumstances in which he finds himself, so saying “nothing matters” without stating to whom and under what circumstances nothing matters is at best incomplete, and, at worst, nonsensical. As we have been saying, it’s subjective—as much as I loathe to use that term—not objective.

[TSTwizby]

I'm not sure what you're objecting to. 'value' or 'mattering' as I am defining it is used to define what is preferable. Obviously you can adapt what I said to a specific scenario in order to obtain a subjective sort of value, but I am maintaining that it is also possible for it to apply objectively, though it is most likely impossible to empirically determine which actions have said quality, and my original post was basically attempting to show that it is always better to act as though it is objectively applied or else it is irrelevant as to whether or not you act as though it were objectively applied.

[Fenrir]

You are an eternal puzzle for me, TSTwizby. I shall solve you one day, but not this eve.

[TSTwizby]

I am confused.

[Fenrir]

It was a more polite and poetic way of saying “I’ve no idea what the fuck you’re talking about TSTwizby, so I give up. Again.” We have crossed blades previously, if you recall, and that encounter left me as perplexed as this one did. It’s very nearly the same sort of problem, I think, but I have not yet a good grasp on what is going wrong. I must think on it more.

[TSTwizby]

I think I remember that. I shall accept your determination to unravel this enigma and consider it a precious gift, for which I now thank you profusely.