Topic: My Little Fortress - 2016 (DF 0.43.04) yay! (Read 188146 times)

Eltrion · « **Reply #630 on:** October 21, 2013, 05:09:41 pm »

>Oh and seriously, your number of eye / mane variants (or any other variants you use in the future, like wings or body types) should have no common divisors. With 3 eyes and 12 haircuts, you only get 12 variants.

I only have 3 eye types drawn though,
So what I did is make 7 eye types
1:Eye Type 1
2:Eye Type 1
3:Eye Type 1
4:Eye Type 2
5:Eye Type 2
6 Eye Type 3
7:Eye Type 3

7 and 12 are relatively prime so I get high variance.

It's not the most elegant solution, but I have considered how frequently the cycle repeats.

I tried to explain that earlier, but I guess I wasn't very clear.
I'm going to do a 64x64 Sprite sheet now. It will make the tile set a lot lighter, and easier to work with in the future I think. Also I'll clean up the clipping at the bottom corners, and (Hopefully) finally fix babies.

Maklak · « **Reply #631 on:** October 22, 2013, 06:40:41 am »

My bad about not figuring out why you iterate over 7 variants of eyes while having 3.

Perhaps desktop ponies would help with your work? They look like with some work, they might make nice templates for eyes, manes and bodies.
http://desktop-pony-team.deviantart.com/gallery/
http://desktopponies.bugs3.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10

Oh and I found this parasprite, although it needs to be resized and coloured. Or maybe even made into several sprites that read it's colour from stonesense. That would look rather cute. Ah, nevermind. There seem to be no parasprites in MLF.

Hm, I took a look at creatures in stonsense in dfhack r3 (especially dwarf.xml, clothed_Dwarves.xml and color_Dwarves.xml) and it seems like all the rules for making a creature sprite must be inside a single variant. There is no hierarchy of variants or a way to make some rules common to several variants. Therefore we can have equipment, but this means that every variant for every caste would have to include rules for every item, like these:

Code: [Select]

<subsprite sheetIndex="107" zoom="2" equipment_class="ARMOR" equipment_name="ITEM_ARMOR_BREASTPLATE" color="equipment"/>
<subsprite sheetIndex="72" zoom="2" equipment_class="GLOVES" equipment_name="ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS" color="equipment" pattern_index="0"/>
<subsprite sheetIndex="75" zoom="2" equipment_class="GLOVES" equipment_name="ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS" color="equipment" pattern_index="1"/>

This severely limits the number of potential accessories.

EDIT: I ripped some code from my other scripts and wrote a perl script that can read pony castes from both FoE and MLF. I haven't yet translated your bash code into perl and what I have isn't yet cleaned up for publication. Here is a list of castes from FoE, if you want it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh, and I'm fairly certain you don't need this list, but here are the castes from this mod. I think, you've missed 5 Princess Castes:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Eltrion · « **Reply #632 on:** October 22, 2013, 11:47:32 pm »

Okay. Downsized the sprites to 64x64 and cleaned up a lot of stuff. Still lots to do but I'll show off how nice the new sprites look so far.

New	Old

Now ponies are even more detailed despite being a quarter the size. Go figure.
Note that the Male Ponies have a new mane, and that the mane they had before is still available to males, the generation was just changed due to me adding in some new manes and eye styles for males.
I'm noticing some tail clipping, that's next up on my list of things to do I guess.

Caldfir · « **Reply #633 on:** October 23, 2013, 12:31:01 am »

Quote from: Maklak on October 21, 2013, 04:46:41 pm

Hi guys, I have a question. Eltrion is configuring stonesense for a pony mod. It more or less already works, but how do you add clothes to the xml file? Let's assume there are armour and helmet sprites for now. Currently there is a script that generates a 700 kB xml for hundreds of castes. Would adding worn equipment cause a combinatorial explosion of rules? Is there a manual for writing variants? It may be better if you answer in the linked thread.

Hi folks. I suppose there's a bit of confusion because the MLP mod has a lot of castes. Internally to DF, castes are treated a lot more like seperate creature types than different expressions of the same creature, and stonesense follows suit, meaning that you need a seperate xml entry for each caste (I'm assuming that's what you've got now causing the large-ish file size). Worn equipment would need to be applied to each of the sprites individually, yes, but thankfully it doesn't cause a combinatorial explosion (just a multiplicative one, which should be manageable). There isn't really a guide specifically for adding clothing, but I can point you at this file as the most definitive example of what can be done.

For example:

Code: [Select]

<subsprite sheetIndex="80" zoom="2" equipment_class="PANTS" equipment_name="ITEM_PANTS" color="equipment"/>

equipment_class="PANTS" equipment_name="ITEM_PANTS" says that this subsprite should only be drawn if the creature is wearing PANTS of subtype ITEM_PANTS
color="equipment" says that this subsprite's color should be determined by the equipment_name and equipment_class specified

With regards to helmets specifically:

Code: [Select]

equipment_class="HELM" equipment_name="NONE"should be added to all the head-hair to keep it from displaying when there is equipment worn on the head (there are examples of this in the file I linked)

I hope that helps. If there are specific questions, come by the stonesense thread and ask. I'll try to help whenever I can.

Maklak · « **Reply #634 on:** October 23, 2013, 05:25:41 am »

Eltrion, these do look even better. Also, you might want to re-read my last post. I edited some stuff in there.

As for equipment, we have the armours left from previous attempts. Here is a compilation, unfortunately in 32x32, so you'll probably have to upscale them.:

Thanks Caldifr, but after I asked in the stonesense forum, I've already figured most of that already. Assuming just the armours will be used, the rules for adult ponies would have to change from "body, eye, iris, wings?, horn?, mane and tail" to "body, armour?, horseshoes?, eye, iris, wings? horn?, tail, mane?, helmet?, helmet's mohawk? (colour from mane and tail)", which would bloat the xml to maybe double the size.

> With regards to helmets specifically [...] should be added to all the head-hair to keep it from displaying when there is equipment worn on the head.
Bummer, this means separating manes and tails into separate sprites and using the mohawks when a helmet is worn. Just blitting the helmet with a mohawk over the mane may look weird.

On another note, I think, I have an OK method of generating variants, based on your work. Assuming all the sprites for a body part start at an offset and are continuous from there, it is enough to take primes close to the highest number of variants (manes), increase the indexes by 1 modulo those primes and add them modulo the number of variants to the offsets. For example with 3 eyes and 5 as the prime, they would cycle like this 01201(5 % 5 = 0)01201 which is similar to what you do. Some variants may be more frequent than others, but it will still provide a lot of variety.
Furthermore, I wouldn't separate code to generate ponies by race, but use if's for wings and horns, so it's all more compact. Well, maybe just the Princesses should use different sprites altogether.

Eltrion · « **Reply #635 on:** October 23, 2013, 09:31:46 am »

Your overthinking it man.

All you need to do is make sure the numbers are relatively prime.

Break them down to their prime factors then make sure they have none in common.

ie. 12 (2x2x3) and 7 are relatively prime and thus distribution all possible varients evenly. Primes are nice because they work with all other primes, but don't bend over backwards to get them.

Edit: Oh good! You found the alicorns. I was looking for those.

Maklak · « **Reply #636 on:** October 23, 2013, 11:02:46 am »

> Your overthinking it man.
Yeah, you're right. I was looking for a solution that would make the distribution of all possible variants almost uniform, with maximum possible variety, no matter the number of castes, but it isn't even that important.

> Edit: Oh good! You found the alicorns. I was looking for those.
Of course. The whole point of expanding your work is to generate an xml straight from the RAW file with a single command. Finding and categorising all the castes is just an intermediate step.

BTW, could anyone give me a save from 1.4.9 with lots of ponies for testing?

EDIT: OK, I can now read castes from RAWs and print xml (based on what your bash script produces) in one go. I still need to test it in stonsese. Here is the script: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71287918/Scripts/stns_castes.pl

Hm, I kinda sorta got stonesense to work in an older version of FoE mod. The newest version has dfhack removed and I was unsuccessful in putting it back. Anyway, ponies were displayed and had colours, but they most of them were clones, at least one male showed as a female and Unicorns had no horns.

If you want to check my xml version for this mod, it is here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71287918/Mlp/pony_caste.xml

Once the ponies are satisfactory, these creatures should get their sprites too. Fortunately some of them already have sprites from the old pony mod.
[CREATURE:PONY_BUFFALO]
[CREATURE:CHANGELING]
[CREATURE:MANTICORE]
[CREATURE:TIMBER_WOLF]
[CREATURE:COCKATRICE_GREATER]
[CREATURE:DIAMOND_DOG]
[CREATURE:PONY_GRIFFON]
[CREATURE:ZEBRA_LITTLE]

A similar list for FoE is much longer.

I'm reading stonesense sprite guide (a txt file in the stonesense directory) and there are some interesting things there.
* I think that sheetIndex, sprite and index are synonyms, so index can be used as the shortest alias.
* variations - "This is used for giving random variation to sprites. If this number is more than 0, a random number between 0 and this number-1 is added to the sheetIndex. eg, if this attribute is 5 and sheetIndex is 21, then tiles will range from 21-25". I wonder if this would work for manes. But then it can't be used for eyes and the foals would change their haircuts when they grow up, so it isn't useful for pony castes.
* bodypart - I don't know how body parts are named. For example would "coat" work for a Zebra or a Timber Wolf?

EDIT: It appears that my attempt at porting this to FoE was a failure. There are glitches all over the place. Ponies with foal bodies and adult hair, horns coloured like mane and not body and just bodies with no manes and eyes. While something is definitely wrong, I had problems with stonesense in the past. It may be that my graphic card is too weak. Please give me a save of the entire MLF directory that works for you in stonesense.

Huh, when I create world with advanced parameters -> Equestria, I get one small continent and a few islands. Then it either crashes when placing civilisations or gives me a warning that it has trouble placing civilisations. Is this normal?

Maklak · « **Reply #637 on:** October 25, 2013, 10:13:30 am »

Normal world generation worked.

The ponies are using seahorse as food, apparently.

The plant table in the manual is incomplete and incorrect, at least if my script was correct and there were no major changes. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=117374.msg4303368;topicseen#msg4303368

I think radish and turnip seeds are called the same.

Sugar beet seeds are called beet seeds.

There is a powder called "turnip plant"

No leather? Well, makes sense with no meat.

I embarked, run stonsesense. It is very slow, and has some problems with unknown vegetation, but displays ponies properly. All starting 7 had the correct race and gender.

Hm, Pony Armour is 1 breastplate, 1 barding (or padding if you're cheap), 1 horseshoes, 1 socks, 1 plumed helm, a weapon and at least one wooden buckler.

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_PONY] has [ATTACK:EDGE:2:100:hack:hacks:NO_SUB:1250] This is a mistake. 2 contact area is a piercing attack.

I think either a short sword or a spear is the best starting weapon.

Migrants look OK in stonesense too. I think, I just have hardware issues with running stonesense for larger forts. Which means I'm not the right person to work on enabling stonesense for a mod.
EDIT: Nevermind, I commented out some sml files for vegetation and it works better. Surprisingly, dogs and cats have heads in some weird colours.

Hm, it looks like Stonesense uses the TLCM_NOUN RAW tokens for naming body parts. Good to know.
FoE has these: "mane and tail", "eyes", "coat", "cutie mark".
MLF has these: "cutie mark", "coat", "mane and tail", "eyes".
Those are the same, which shows that scripts used to generate castes for both mods have a common origin. This is great for generating stonesense config files.

Castes and body parts for some other creatures in MLF:
Zebra: TLCM_NOUN: coat, stripes, eyes ; Castes: FEMALE, MALE
Buffalo: TLCM_NOUN: coat, hair, skin, eyes ; Castes: FEMALE_PLAINS, MALE_PLAINS
Griffin: TLCM_NOUN: coat, plume, feathers, eyes ; Castes: GRIFFON_M, GRIFFON_F

Etherdrinker · « **Reply #638 on:** October 26, 2013, 06:17:08 pm »

You guys seems using stonesense a lot for examples, but, you can fully controll the game inside stonesense? or jus your are using it for exposing purposes?

I want a friend try DF but if are ponified... for sure gonna soften the "hit", about how overwhelming is the game.

Putnam · « **Reply #639 on:** October 26, 2013, 09:52:48 pm »

They're working on it.

Maklak · « **Reply #640 on:** October 27, 2013, 03:24:38 am »

At the moment stonesense is just for displaying information, although it's authors hinted that it would be possible to make it control the game.

I'm working on Zebra sprites now.

I ask again for an old save, preferably with a caravan.

Eltrion, am I helping you at all, or just interfering?

I have an idea for another script to read DF and stonesense directories and look for problems. At first only creatures without sprites.

EDIT: I did the zebras. They should have two genders, different coat, stripes and eye colours and half of the females should have jewellery. In retrospect, I could have easily added more variety to jewellery. Can anyone verify if this works, preferably with a picture of a caravan? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71287918/Mlp/Zebras.rar

vjmdhzgr · « **Reply #641 on:** October 28, 2013, 06:24:05 am »

I haven't played this mod yet but i downloaded it and looked around in the raws a bit and found that the standard pony civ has torture for fun set as acceptable in the ethics.

Telgin · « **Reply #642 on:** October 28, 2013, 11:32:48 am »

I'm pretty sure it was like that in Nidokoenig's mod too. A little in joke to Cupcakes I believe, as it also had a reference to FOOD_ITEM_DASH or something like that in the prepared meal tokens.

Eltrion · « **Reply #643 on:** October 28, 2013, 05:43:31 pm »

Sorry I haven't posted anything lately. I had a busy weekend. I'll post the updated sprites and an XML sometime this week. I haven't had much time to work on anything so it won't be much other than what I've already shown.

vjmdhzgr · « **Reply #644 on:** October 28, 2013, 10:42:58 pm »

Quote from: vjmdhzgr on October 28, 2013, 06:24:05 am

I haven't played this mod yet but i downloaded it and looked around in the raws a bit and found that the standard pony civ has torture for fun set as acceptable in the ethics.

I'm not entirely sure what happened but it turns out I got an old download somehow and in general it was weird like it was just a raw folder rather then the whole thing ready to play from download, so it's an old version where it was like this. *edit* I checked and I thought I had deleted it when I first posted but I didn't and it's version 1.71

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Author Topic: My Little Fortress - 2016 (DF 0.43.04) yay! (Read 188146 times)

Eltrion

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