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Author Topic: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win  (Read 78204 times)

zombie urist

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #570 on: November 12, 2012, 01:29:29 pm »

 :(

How come I didn't get a deadchat invite?

And how was Shakerag supposed to win?
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The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #571 on: November 12, 2012, 01:32:32 pm »

Who did Shakerag bet on?
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

webadict

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #572 on: November 12, 2012, 01:33:58 pm »

:(

How come I didn't get a deadchat invite?

And how was Shakerag supposed to win?
... Didn't I? I thought I had.
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #574 on: November 12, 2012, 04:14:32 pm »

That is the most beautiful bullshit.
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Tiruin

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #575 on: November 12, 2012, 04:40:58 pm »

No wonder we didn't hear from our gambling buddy. :/
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Bookthras

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #576 on: November 12, 2012, 05:21:45 pm »

TolyK:
Book, if I would've said that I am scum, and vote Hapah and you win with scum 100%, otherwise we'd kill you at night... would you have gone with us? :P
I doubt it. Hard to say with certainty, but in general if not in conflict with my alignment I prefer a town win, lynching Hapah would defuse Bruce, which was my hole card, and I didn't fear your trying to kill me (once, thanks to Truce). Still, interesting plan; ballsy and probably doomed (you'd be outing Tiruin too), but it's good you thought of it.

Not doing it was probably optimal, though.

Hapah:
Slight mixup if that's the case, then: I should've known that I got shot N2 and it failed.
Right, those N2 actions were utterly nuts. Turns out the actual kill was first delayed and then blocked. I like how Light of Judgement would have killed you and spared me, that was lovely.

I put forward my plan on the last day mostly because it would disarm Tir (who was my primary suspect) of his swap ability, which scared the hell out of me. The fact that it would have confirmed Jim and IO's roles was nice, and gave me a way to present the plan that wouldn't set off all the alarm bells.
Just a comment: I thought the plan was bad for the reasons Jim and Irony pointed out (and the real danger, as wuba said, was the scum switching roles with you). But in general, I find reliance on such 'plans' counterproductive. If people think so-and-so is scummy, just lynch them! That's what the game is about! If you instead dicker with 'oh let's do this and if he does that it means that other thing' you tend to disrupt actual scumhunting, and always leave out unknown factors (because everybody lies and the scum will have aces up their sleeves).

Also, I still find your reluctance to cast a vote until the last possible second annoying; that's a habit that I suggest you get rid of. Just a suggestion, of course, but man, that gets old.

Wuba:
Also, I might have made far to many revives this game, but that was kind of a theme this round. Zai is right about that theme thing. I can't help it.
I like that your games have themes underlying them. But yeah, the revives coupled with the (accidentally, mostly) deathless nights made it seem we weren't making any progress, and for some days the game seemed stalled; a day or two more and it could have gotten really boring.

Think0028 had also made Bookthras invincible at the start, but was modkilled. An invincible survivor...
I love you guys. I felt badly about jerking Tiruin around and using Hapah as human shield and all that, seemed like kindness repaid with injury, but one plays the cards one's dealt.

On that vein, I'm happy to read in deadchat that I did successfully goad Dariush into targeting me N1; too bad he wasn't the scum I thought he was, or the mirror would have been much more effective.

Bookthras got a fun role that was all about keeping alive. I think I balanced that one pretty nicely.
Yup, that was a pretty amazing role, balanced to perfection. Too bad I sucked at playing it.

I'm not sure how having 3 people modkilled changed the game, but it seemed necessary. I'm glad the game was still enjoyable after that.
I applaud this decision. It was ballsy and risky, but it turned out really well. If more mods did this more often, people would eventually learn not to join games they aren't going to play. It helped that it killed two town and one scum, so kept the balance going.

Overall, I'd give myself an 80% on this game. 90% on the roles, 70% on mod activity, 65% on flavor, 95% on keeping the game going.
I'd say 90%+ on roles is right (though a case can be made for fewer revives), and I found the flavour enjoyable, so more than 65%. For the rest...

Anyone have any comments on the game to improve future BYORs?
Consistency. I was being theatrical at the time, but in earnest: please make sure votes are counted when made correctly and in good faith even if you find them hard to read, that the vote counts are accurate and frequent, and don't say things like "I'm not answering any more questions about meta stuff" (like precedence order or definitions or would a delayed action go off in such-and-such case and so on). We count on you to answer questions and keep us clearly informed of where the game is votewise.

But otherwise, the roles were lovely, the unpredictable bullshit was really fun, and the counters and twists were well thought out; that's why we like your games. I wish Shakerag would have done a better betting job; that looked like a very fun side game that didn't need to end so soon.
Logged
No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Shakerag

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #577 on: November 12, 2012, 05:31:05 pm »

But otherwise, the roles were lovely, the unpredictable bullshit was really fun, and the counters and twists were well thought out; that's why we like your games. I wish Shakerag would have done a better betting job Webadict was a little more candid in defining Shakerag's role; that looked like a very fun side game that didn't need to end so soon.
FTFY

Bookthras

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #578 on: November 12, 2012, 08:07:45 pm »

I wish Shakerag would have done a better betting job Webadict was a little more candid in defining Shakerag's role.
FTFY
Yeah... that's a bit too familiar. It's you shirking your responsibility for your own actions again, in the post-game just as you did in the pre-game:
EDIT2:  EXCEPT BOOKTHRAS WANTS TO SCAR YOUR MIND, TOO BAD.
EDIT3:  Honorary mention:Bookthras-induced mental scarring
But for the record, I didn't scar anyone: you did, and then you chickened out. You said what you said, I merely kept an accurate historical record.

If you are an adult, you should be familiar with concepts like "debt" and "credit limit". Even if you aren't, you should know to ask the mod before you place seven large bets... as much as I may agree there was some ambiguity in the language, the fault is entirely on your shoulders for not clarifying before committing. It's unfair of you to say it was wuba's error: it was entirely yours.

This is where you say the newsletter thing again. But I hope you use it as a tool for introspection. The problem is not others, it's how you interact with them.


...which is a shame, because I liked the idea that your death was for publicly claiming a role (that you submitted) called "secretly bastard"! I like that on bet-chat wuba made a point of calling the lawyers on you for violating confidentiality. I would like to think that even if you hadn't maxed out your credit card, them lawyers' goons woulda broken yar legs for yar big mouth.

Repeat after me: if my role says "secret", I keep my mouth shut.
Logged
No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #579 on: November 12, 2012, 08:25:09 pm »

I know what I'm submitting next time.

And next time I'll actually have time!
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Toaster

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #580 on: November 12, 2012, 08:26:22 pm »

I've decided what to send as well, since Web seems to be up to the challenge of "ANYTHING can be a role."
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

webadict

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #581 on: November 12, 2012, 09:09:25 pm »

Anyone have any comments on the game to improve future BYORs?
Consistency. I was being theatrical at the time, but in earnest: please make sure votes are counted when made correctly and in good faith even if you find them hard to read, that the vote counts are accurate and frequent, and don't say things like "I'm not answering any more questions about meta stuff" (like precedence order or definitions or would a delayed action go off in such-and-such case and so on). We count on you to answer questions and keep us clearly informed of where the game is votewise.
But, asking what order an action takes is almost impossible without giving away other actions. It might not even matter when it happens, but I'll be asked whether a kidnap action happens before or after inspection or if the redirect can be used on yourself, and it really just gets on my nerves. Especially when people ask about other people's roles. If they ain't dead, I can't answer it, end of story. If you phrase it in the form of a generic question, I can answer.

But, I can't answer every single action's order. I just cannot. There's one big main order, but it's just not good enough for some people.
So, here it is. Finalized. No asking about it.

Negations
Supers (Block/Randomization/Redirection/Delay Immunities)
Redirects (Mirrors, Reflects, Karma)
Randomizes
Delays
Blocks
Kills (Poisons, Mafiakills, Primes)
Protects (Revivals)
Random Other Things (Kidnaps, Converts, Give, Anything I can't think of)
Inspects (Watches, Tracks, Rolespect)

And should I start another one now? I have so-so mod activity, but it gives me time to make roles.
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Hapah

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #582 on: November 12, 2012, 09:11:41 pm »

That's up to you, I guess! I'm sure you'll get players if you make it.

EDIT: So I guess protects are more like kill-erasers than shields, since they come later in the order?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 09:40:38 pm by Hapah »
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I can't be expected to remember the names of everyone I've tried to stab.

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webadict

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #583 on: November 12, 2012, 09:56:49 pm »

That's up to you, I guess! I'm sure you'll get players if you make it.

EDIT: So I guess protects are more like kill-erasers than shields, since they come later in the order?
Correct. Protects remove one kill from a target, and as such, act AFTER kills. So, killing someone five times before they hit the ground might actually be more effective. Though, it doesn't really matter, as they are simply opposites in a grand scheme. Even if it came first, it would act the same.
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Shakerag

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Re: BYOR 10 - Game Over: Town/Survivor Win
« Reply #584 on: November 13, 2012, 12:27:18 am »

If you are an adult, you should be familiar with concepts like "debt" and "credit limit". Even if you aren't, you should know to ask the mod before you place seven large bets... as much as I may agree there was some ambiguity in the language, the fault is entirely on your shoulders for not clarifying before committing. It's unfair of you to say it was wuba's error: it was entirely yours.

This is where you say the newsletter thing again. But I hope you use it as a tool for introspection. The problem is not others, it's how you interact with them.


...which is a shame, because I liked the idea that your death was for publicly claiming a role (that you submitted) called "secretly bastard"! I like that on bet-chat wuba made a point of calling the lawyers on you for violating confidentiality. I would like to think that even if you hadn't maxed out your credit card, them lawyers' goons woulda broken yar legs for yar big mouth.

Repeat after me: if my role says "secret", I keep my mouth shut.
I know it's hard to properly convey tone via text sometimes, but I can't help but feel that you have some manner of personal grievance toward me (specifically, as opposed to your commenting in general) based on how I feel your words are coming across. 

If this is not the case, then obviously I picked up on a fictitious sentiment.  Alas, poor text-based communication methods.

Spoiler: If this -is- the case, (click to show/hide)
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