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[Jim Groovester]

Tiruin, if you want Bookthras to claim his role, would you kindly apply the appropriate pressure? Obviously words are lost on him.

The sooner you claim the sooner I can be on my merry way to not dealing with your retarded bullshit. It's a win-win for both of us!

[IronyOwl]

Jim:

Which is why I think it's imperative to get Bookthras to claim.

You think you'll believe him when he does?

If your claim is accurate, then TolyK should not have seen anything at all.

So... why did he? And why aren't you trying to figure that out instead of lashing out at me for making a logical deduction?

My first guess would be because he's lying scum, but there's enough weirdness (and in particular, redirects) going on that it's not first by much.

I'm not trying to figure that out because I don't see any way to do that. I can call him scum a lot and hope he panics and changes his story, or I can hope something else comes up elsewhere. I figured you already had Bookthras' claim covered.

I lashed out at you because I was hoping I'd caught you in a fakeclaim and your logic sucked.


Tiruin:

IronyOwl

Also, this is dumb. If my role is accurate, TolyK should have seen my bear visiting you N3. It would also make for an absolutely crippled scumteam.

How so?

For the first, anyone targeting me targets Tibbers instead. That shouldn't qualify as "game-changing," so his auto shouldn't have affected it and he should have seen my bear. Who, for obvious reasons, probably shouldn't have been targeting anyone.

For the second, because until I died the scumkill would literally harm them as much as it would their target. Even in a game without revives and protects around every corner that'd be pretty ridiculous. As it stands, it'd be outright insane.

Hmm.

So you say that you did act in N3 instead of doing nothing. Which coincides with what TolyK saw.

Where did I say that?

Also, 'absolutely crippled scumteam'?

If I'm scum with that auto, it'd be an absolutely crippled scumteam. The second paragraph of the last quote was completely devoted to explaining this concept.

Which means that if you did so, then I should've died before protecting Tibbers. Which I didn't. TolyK also saw you instead of your bear, somehow.

Other than reinforcing my notion that you're scum, this is the only part of that post worth a damn, because it reminded me I needed to ask webs something.


Bookthras:

Bite me. I've claimed all I'm prepared to, but I'll be condescending to the slower sections of the class and point out some clues:

You don't need more than this to understand the specifics of the mirror, and the reason I don't want to spell it out. If you say you do, then you are lying, and you are adding that lie to your previous about your N2 action (when you said you protected me), deflection attempts, and your flat denial of knowing something you earlier said you knew about (Irony's action). Not that it means you are scum. Oh, no. We survivors would never want to antagonise the likes of you at this point of the game. But still: bite me.

That's nice and all, but there's three major problems with it.

The first, and really major one, is that I have no particular reason to think you're telling the truth. Any liemongering scum can wander in and say "Hey guys, I'm a survivor so I'm not gonna claim," so letting that shit fly really defeats the purpose of having a massclaim in the first place.

So, just for that, I'm going to lynch you if you don't claim. I thought that was kind of implied earlier, but I guess it wasn't. If you're really a survivor, that should be an easy decision. Unless you're really both lynch-immune and kill-reflecting like you claim, in which case I'll see what we can do about murdering you twice like it takes every other player in this game to die.

Secondly, I still don't grasp why you'd want to be coy about this. If you're really a survivor, scum has no reason to try to kill you, so it really shouldn't matter what weaknesses or workarounds your otherwise supposedly-flawless protections provide. You seem to be saying you reflected Jim's kill right back on him, which still doesn't explain why scum would want you dead or why dancing around the topic is helpful.

There's a third reason, but I'm not willing to claim it yet.





webadict: If a player uses an action that provides descriptive results, and is redirected, would their descriptions match their intended target or their actual one?

[Tiruin]

@Irony: You said you didn't act at all for the everyday, but then said you sent Tibbers at N3. Did you forget or are you not paying attention judging by your last sentence there?


I point you here. That contradicts what you said, in your claim.


Also...

Bookthras:

Bite me. I've claimed all I'm prepared to, but I'll be condescending to the slower sections of the class and point out some clues:

You don't need more than this to understand the specifics of the mirror, and the reason I don't want to spell it out. If you say you do, then you are lying, and you are adding that lie to your previous about your N2 action (when you said you protected me), deflection attempts, and your flat denial of knowing something you earlier said you knew about (Irony's action). Not that it means you are scum. Oh, no. We survivors would never want to antagonise the likes of you at this point of the game. But still: bite me.

That's nice and all, but there's three major problems with it.

The first, and really major one, is that I have no particular reason to think you're telling the truth. Any liemongering scum can wander in and say "Hey guys, I'm a survivor so I'm not gonna claim," so letting that shit fly really defeats the purpose of having a massclaim in the first place.

So, just for that, I'm going to lynch you if you don't claim. I thought that was kind of implied earlier, but I guess it wasn't. If you're really a survivor, that should be an easy decision. Unless you're really both lynch-immune and kill-reflecting like you claim, in which case I'll see what we can do about murdering you twice like it takes every other player in this game to die.

Secondly, I still don't grasp why you'd want to be coy about this. If you're really a survivor, scum has no reason to try to kill you, so it really shouldn't matter what weaknesses or workarounds your otherwise supposedly-flawless protections provide. You seem to be saying you reflected Jim's kill right back on him, which still doesn't explain why scum would want you dead or why dancing around the topic is helpful.

There's a third reason, but I'm not willing to claim it yet.

@ Bolded part: Huh?

[IronyOwl]

Tiruin:

@Irony: You said you didn't act at all for the everyday, but then said you sent Tibbers at N3. Did you forget or are you not paying attention judging by your last sentence there?

No, I didn't. I said that if TolyK was telling the truth and correct in his target, my bear was visiting Jim N3. Why would my suddenly having a bear that can do shit and that was doing what TolyK said I was be a glossed-over detail that didn't really need explaining? Have you been paying attention to what my bear does and why I have one? And if you did misread it like that, why was that the only thing you were curious about?

I also want to hear what that "crippled scumteam" question was about.

@ Bolded part: Huh?

In deference to Bookthras' desire to not spell it out, and more importantly his desire to be a snarky asshole to people who can't read, I'm going to refrain from answering this. It's nothing you don't have access to.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin:

@Irony: You said you didn't act at all for the everyday, but then said you sent Tibbers at N3. Did you forget or are you not paying attention judging by your last sentence there?

No, I didn't. I said that if TolyK was telling the truth and correct in his target, my bear was visiting Jim N3. Why would my suddenly having a bear that can do shit and that was doing what TolyK said I was be a glossed-over detail that didn't really need explaining? Have you been paying attention to what my bear does and why I have one? And if you did misread it like that, why was that the only thing you were curious about?

I also want to hear what that "crippled scumteam" question was about.

@First paragraph: I doubt that. So if what you assume is true, TolyK would've seen...what exactly? Jim wouldn't have died either way because I would know. Also, your bear is still alive even if you did send it to Jim and I'm totally confused on how that could have protected him. Jim got hit, and seeing your claim, it means that Jim shouldn't have died.

Also, why mention your bear anyway if you didn't action it on Jim?

@Second: I wondered what you were talking about there and how anything could be a crippled scumteam.

@ Bolded part: Huh?

In deference to Bookthras' desire to not spell it out, and more importantly his desire to be a snarky asshole to people who can't read, I'm going to refrain from answering this. It's nothing you don't have access to.

I...really can't get you now. Then the story shifts to something that sounds like Jim having some kind of kill that was reflected by Bookthras. Jim didn't even claim a kill - his claim doesn't state anything that is a kill.

And this means you're speaking ahead of what Bookthras would say? If I missed it [or misunderstood: I'm guessing misunderstanding because I can't get how Jim had a kill and a one-shot watcher and used them on Bookthras in two proceeding nights], quote please.

[IronyOwl]

Tiruin:

Tiruin:

@Irony: You said you didn't act at all for the everyday, but then said you sent Tibbers at N3. Did you forget or are you not paying attention judging by your last sentence there?

No, I didn't. I said that if TolyK was telling the truth and correct in his target, my bear was visiting Jim N3. Why would my suddenly having a bear that can do shit and that was doing what TolyK said I was be a glossed-over detail that didn't really need explaining? Have you been paying attention to what my bear does and why I have one? And if you did misread it like that, why was that the only thing you were curious about?

@First paragraph: I doubt that. So if what you assume is true, TolyK would've seen...what exactly?

I can't even tell what you're talking about here. What am I assuming again? I get the feeling it's not something I'm actually assuming.

Jim wouldn't have died either way because I would know.

What?

Also, why mention your bear anyway if you didn't action it on Jim?

Because it was a way to describe an obvious flaw in Jim's assertion that I was probably scum based on TolyK's claim.

What did you make of that assertion at the time, by the way?

Also, your bear is still alive even if you did send it to Jim and I'm totally confused on how that could have protected him. Jim got hit, and seeing your claim, it means that Jim shouldn't have died.

This has nothing to do with anything. How and why did you come to a conclusion like this?

I also want to hear what that "crippled scumteam" question was about.

@Second: I wondered what you were talking about there and how anything could be a crippled scumteam.

So you wondered what I was talking about nestled in a pyramid of quotes explaining what I was talking about?

I...really can't get you now. Then the story shifts to something that sounds like Jim having some kind of kill that was reflected by Bookthras. Jim didn't even claim a kill - his claim doesn't state anything that is a kill.

And this means you're speaking ahead of what Bookthras would say? If I missed it [or misunderstood: I'm guessing misunderstanding because I can't get how Jim had a kill and a one-shot watcher and used them on Bookthras in two proceeding nights], quote please.

If all goes well, Bookthras will claim soon anyway. If nothing else, I suspect he'll elaborate more on the publicly visible breadcrumbs everyone knows about.

[Tiruin]

Also, IronyOwl is scum, probably, seeing as how TolyK has him visiting me Night 3. If his role is accurate, it would also explain the lack of kills, i.e., he chose to avoid using them so that they didn't come back to bite him in the ass.

Also, this is dumb. If my role is accurate, TolyK should have seen my bear visiting you N3. It would also make for an absolutely crippled scumteam.

This one.

It would be pretty silly seeing your Watcher come out as 'Tibbers', wouldn't it.

Why exactly, the bear?

[IronyOwl]

Tiruin:

Also, IronyOwl is scum, probably, seeing as how TolyK has him visiting me Night 3. If his role is accurate, it would also explain the lack of kills, i.e., he chose to avoid using them so that they didn't come back to bite him in the ass.

Also, this is dumb. If my role is accurate, TolyK should have seen my bear visiting you N3. It would also make for an absolutely crippled scumteam.

This one.

It would be pretty silly seeing your Watcher come out as 'Tibbers', wouldn't it.

Why exactly, the bear?

You're not answering my questions. I also don't understand what you're asking here, but I suspect I already answered it.

[Tiruin]

...If you would action, what would anyone see?

To all those questions, I'm under the impression that you did send Tibbers after Jim based on how you worded that post there. And...primarily because you said that people would be seeing your bear - hence me thinking you acted.

...

What did you really mean by that post I quoted and what are you assuming by seeing my own assumptions?

[IronyOwl]

Tiruin:

...If you would action, what would anyone see?

Nothing, because they'd see my bear, who wouldn't be actioning.

To all those questions, I'm under the impression that you did send Tibbers after Jim based on how you worded that post there. And...primarily because you said that people would be seeing your bear - hence me thinking you acted.

That would have required not revealing rather significant amounts of my role, wouldn't you say?

...

What did you really mean by that post I quoted and what are you assuming by seeing my own assumptions?

I'm not answering this a third time and I once again have no idea what the second half means. Respond to my posts.

[Tiruin]

I am responding to your posts. I said, if there is anything I missed or failed to understand, please quote me, because I see I answered all your questions.

That would have required not revealing rather significant amounts of my role, wouldn't you say?

@This - what do you think I'm asking you?

To all those questions, I'm under the impression that you did send Tibbers after Jim based on how you worded that post there. And...primarily because you said that people would be seeing your bear - hence me thinking you acted.

That would have required not revealing rather significant amounts of my role, wouldn't you say?

Significant amounts? I'm looking at it from what you said yourself.

I am the Offspring of Annie and Veigar.

(auto): Guardian Tibbers. Anyone attempting to action me actions Tibbers instead. This fails once Tibbers is dead. I will receive notice if Tibbers is slain, but otherwise could not get any information from webs.
(auto): Half-Yordle. 50% chance to redirect kills to myself.
1-shot, Night: Your Bear Tibbers. Targeted player receives the auto Guardian Tibbers.
1-shot, Day: Parental Guidance: Your vote instantly lynches the target today.

I have not actioned nor been actioned all game, as far as I'm aware. Tibbers has also not been slain.

Call me totally confused.

You say that the bear - who is called Tibbers would be doing nothing. Here, it says otherwise.

I said that if TolyK was telling the truth and correct in his target, my bear was visiting Jim N3.

Did you or did you not send Tibbers to Jim at N3?

To the question in that link. Yes I've been paying attention to what your bear does. No I have no idea why web gave you a bear.

Webadict: Do you have any concrete order of actions that would generally happen in a night? When does a Watcher's action occur? When does a Protect-type's action occur?

[webadict]

webadict: If a player uses an action that provides descriptive results, and is redirected, would their descriptions match their intended target or their actual one?

This has, and always will be, their ACTUAL TARGET. Hence why I do not give out who anyone ended up targeting.

[webadict]

Webadict: Do you have any concrete order of actions that would generally happen in a night? When does a Watcher's action occur? When does a Protect-type's action occur?

WTF? Watcher's don't HAVE built-in actions. Only the Mafia has a built-in action (mafiakill). If you're talking about the Win-con, they win when the Day is reached.

As for actions, they follow a similar pattern to Mephansteras's:

Delays
Redirects
Randomizations
Blocks
Kills
Protects
Inspects

Like that, but sometimes it depends on the action.

Basically, Protects are very low priority.

[Tiruin]

PFP

Oh goodness. I meant the Watcher - Ability. The thing that lets you see where a person went or something like that.

Not the Watcher Win-con.

[webadict]

PFP

Oh goodness. I meant the Watcher - Ability. The thing that lets you see where a person went or something like that.

Not the Watcher Win-con.

Clarification:

Track [target]: Tells you who the target actioned.
Watch [target]: Tells you who actioned the target OR Tells you what action the target used OR Tells you if the target used an action. This one seems to be the most confusing.

As such, I'll label them like this:

Watch [target]: Tells you who actioned the target.
Survey [target]: Tells you what action the target used.