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[Dariush]

I wouldn't call Shakerag's statements regarding you a 'case', mostly due to the second part.

You know, this sentence reminds me of IWBTG's FAQ.

Q: APPLES DO NOT FALL UP

A: They're more like giant cherries....

I am talking about a completely different matter. You can call Shakerag's case a blue banana for all I care. You contradicted yourself by first saying his case on me is... uh... 'lesser' than on other people and then immediatly saying the direct opposite of that. So, basically, you jumped onto the first availible opportunity to backtrack on your words for no reason at all. Fuck you, ZU.

I consider what Tolyk did scummy because he was pretty vocal that everything he said was 'just a guess', but then he directly and strongly contradicted his own words.

Where did he "directly and strongly" say the opposite of "it's just a guess?"

...Are you even reading the thread? Or are you just repeating the same questions over and over to imitate activity? Reply #173, second to last paragraph. I don't even want to bother with quotes, since you'll repeat the same question anyway.

Accusation of being a lynch candidate. It is scummy for exactly the same reason describing someone as scum, but not voting them (or addressing them, for that matter) is.

I don't get it. How is asserting that someone's likely to get themselves lynched but not doing anything about it equivalent to stating that someone's probably scum and doing the same? What are they supposed to do about it?

For starters, his premise is wrong. I don't know where he got his information from, but I know that neither me, Shake nor Tiruin didn't get lynched on D1 for a pretty long time (for me it's around a year, minus RL5 where the town had a major case of idiotfuckassititis). He didn't support his opinions with any quotes, links or anything. And that is scummy, Johnny.

[Toaster]

Shakerag:  Given your claim, you are in actually completely disinterested in actually finding scum, correct?  If so, how valid is your suspicion list?


Hapah:  From what I've seen, just asking for a replace never removes votes. 

Do you have a case against ZombieU or are you just tiebreaking?  If no, who is your second suspect behind Shakerag?  Do you still think Shakerag should be lynched?  Do you buy his claim?


ZombieU:  So you don't see Shakerag as a threat?

You do realize your entire case on me is extremely presumptuous, right?


Irony:  Should Shakerag be lynched, then?  If so, are you saying that barely-part-of-the-game Shakerag is a bigger threat than dodgy ZombieU?  How sure are you ZombieU is scum?

[Shakerag]

Thats funny, outsider isn't on the list of alignments.

Hence why it's a bastard role, I wager.

Outsider == nonstandard wincon.

Is that actually stated somewhere else?  Or just kind of assumed knowledge?  I figured "Outsider" was part of webadict's bastardness.

Shakerag, why claim?

Because it looked like I was in realistic danger of being lynched for bullshit reasons, and I don't want to lose?  I figured I'd just play a standard game with a bit of a survivor bent and mysteriously disappear after I hit my wincon.  Since it was ... inferred to me by webadict (vague bastard that he is) that I may have difficulties winning if I'm dead, I figured claiming was the last decent shot I had. 

You really think Hapah is voting Shakerag because he wants to be beat in the head with a shovel?

It's a bit of a running joke between us.  Well.  Maybe not so much a joke.  More like a running threat.

Interesting. I think I believe Shakerag, though his claim and playstyle have both made it pretty clear that he's a liability regardless.

How?  I know survivors can be a liability to the town (or any other alignment, for that matter, I suppose) come end game, but I'm not a survivor.  I don't win with anyone else, and I'm not planning on sticking around to the end game.  ...  Err, hold that last thought; I just thought of something I need to ask webadict.

IWBTG's FAQ

The what?

Shakerag:  Given your claim, you are in actually completely disinterested in actually finding scum, correct?  If so, how valid is your suspicion list?

Yes.  Well, at least so far.  Technically you could say I'm interesting in knowing who scum is in so far as that I wouldn't want to bet on them dying at night.  On the other hand, for all I know, webadict could add a bet later on like "[1:??] - Scum is lynched D?".  But I suppose my primary goal is just trying to predict what everyone's going to do.

As for my reads ... it's possible one or more of them is scum, certainly.  I'm inclined to think there's a high chance at the very least one of them is scum.  My statements about deconstructing why they're all voting me stand, as I still think it's bullshit. 

[Hapah]

PFP

Toaster:

Hapah:  From what I've seen, just asking for a replace never removes votes. 

Do you have a case against ZombieU or are you just tiebreaking?  If no, who is your second suspect behind Shakerag?  Do you still think Shakerag should be lynched?  Do you buy his claim?

Thanks, didn't know about the votes. For the question bit:

-Tiebreaking
-Not sure, need to reread. I've been getting my tunnel on pretty hard.
-Honestly, no, because
-I buy the essence of his claim. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some small bit Shake held back or lied about, but I think the meat of it is there. All a lynch would do, I think, is make him a poorer man and give us no information save that lynches aren't "effective" against him.

PPE: Hm, I think I misread Shake's abilities. I thought he lost $500 instead of dying, but now it looks like it might be -$500 and dying?

[Shakerag]

PPE: Hm, I think I misread Shake's abilities. I thought he lost $500 instead of dying, but now it looks like it might be -$500 and dying?

Actually, I thought I lost $500 and stayed dead, but now I'm wondering with the wording ... asking for clarification.

[Tiruin]

Revoke own Extend - didn't see web's post.


Shakerag: Your claim. Totally confusing for me. [Though, it may be my inexperience with betting and whatnot. Can someone explain how he/you has credit but...start out in the negative? Google doesn't help when I type 'can you bet while in debt'. My lessons in Economics doesn't help either.]

> You've an [auto] which states this is a bastard game as long as you live.
> Seems like you'll only win by calling those people out, given the time/$300 thing.
> Smells like a Watcher.

Shakerag, why claim?

Because it looked like I was in realistic danger of being lynched for bullshit reasons, and I don't want to lose?  I figured I'd just play a standard game with a bit of a survivor bent and mysteriously disappear after I hit my wincon.  Since it was ... inferred to me by webadict (vague bastard that he is) that I may have difficulties winning if I'm dead, I figured claiming was the last decent shot I had. 

"When I'm dead"? You just lose cash when you die and when you worded it this way...sounds like a permanent thing to me.

Break Even means have no debt right? Why do you have credit?

Also.

You really think Hapah is voting Shakerag because he wants to be beat in the head with a shovel?

It's a bit of a running joke between us.  Well.  Maybe not so much a joke.  More like a running threat.

It's now a running joke-threat? Wat.


ZU
I believe

NOOOO
Please lynch Toaster tomorrow.

Was because of Hapah's vote? What in the world happened to your case on Shakerag?

Let me try to match up the votes, because web seems busy 
From here.

Shakerag - zombie urist, Deathsword, IronyOwl
zombie urist - Jim Groovester, penngo009, Tiruin, Shakerag, Hapah

Leading to the above, I believe?

Extensions require a majority vote.

We had...from here to web's Wednesday extension...4 since then.

Anyway. Why'd you drop your everything when, I presume, Shakerag claimed and why aren't you focusing more on his case?

Can you summarize your new case on Toaster? Because your foundations seems to be from calling BS on reaction tests. Why?

In short.

You really think Hapah is voting Shakerag because he wants to be beat in the head with a shovel?

I'm going to go along with Shakerag's claim right now.

WHY? You need to state why so we can understand you.

And why are you talking about Shakerag's metaphorical shovel?! He isn't an IC here!



webadict: How many is the majority for an extension? For a shorten? We've used up our 2 extends per day.

PPE: Hapah.

Hapah
Well, now that you know that we've got time, your vote stays (cause you didn't shift it if it was only tiebreaking), why?

PPE after that: Shakerag

[zombie urist]

Short post for now. The other post was short because I wanted to get it in before the deadline.

I'll get a better case on Toaster before day end. Case on Shakerag still holds, but if he's not anti-town I really don't care about lynching him. I'm going to believe his claim because it matches his actions--that is not seeming to care who gets lynched.

Obviously if Shakerag is non-town (note this is different from anti-town), then everyone's vote on him is well-justified.

Mod: Is it possible for alignments not on the list to exist in game?

[Shakerag]

Shakerag: Your claim. Totally confusing for me. [Though, it may be my inexperience with betting and whatnot. Can someone explain how he/you has credit but...start out in the negative? Google doesn't help when I type 'can you bet while in debt'. My lessons in Economics doesn't help either.]

> You've an [auto] which states this is a bastard game as long as you live.
> Seems like you'll only win by calling those people out, given the time/$300 thing.
> Smells like a Watcher.

My role is basically a bastard role.  The bastardness is, as far as I'm aware, restricted to me.  It's a non-standard win condition.  I am $1000 in debt to webadict's casino, and I have $3000 I can only use to place bets with.  I win when I have won back enough to cover my oustanding debt and the amount of any bets I place.  This is complicated by being charged $300 per night I haven't broken even, and being charged $500 for dying. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "calling those people out".  I doubt the scumteam is going to listen if I tell them they have to NK who I'm betting on. 

I suppose it's kind of sort of related to a Watcher.  But that's just surviving to day X, right?

Shakerag, why claim?

Because it looked like I was in realistic danger of being lynched for bullshit reasons, and I don't want to lose?  I figured I'd just play a standard game with a bit of a survivor bent and mysteriously disappear after I hit my wincon.  Since it was ... inferred to me by webadict (vague bastard that he is) that I may have difficulties winning if I'm dead, I figured claiming was the last decent shot I had. 

"When I'm dead"? You just lose cash when you die and when you worded it this way...sounds like a permanent thing to me.

Break Even means have no debt right? Why do you have credit?

I was under the assumption that death is permanent for me.  I am currently seeking clarification from webadict. 

Yes, break even means to have no debt.  I have credit because with cash I could just pay off my debt and win automatically.  No, I can't get a cash advance on the credit card, I already tried. 

Also.

You really think Hapah is voting Shakerag because he wants to be beat in the head with a shovel?

It's a bit of a running joke between us.  Well.  Maybe not so much a joke.  More like a running threat.

It's now a running joke-threat? Wat.

Hapah has made some ... questionable strategy decisions when playing with me in previous games.  I have repeatedly threatened to smack him upside the head with a shovel for it. 

[Bookthras]

The Player Who Secretly Turns BYOR 10 into a Bastard Game of Mafia from a Normal Game of Mafia
My alignment is Outsider and my wincon is to at least break even.

Heheh, this is a lovely role. I like it a lot. Yeah, I generally believe it, though I wouldn't be surprised if you left something out or if wuba has added some sort of hidden thing to it (like, say, consequences for violating the "Secretly" part of your role). We'll see.

Regarding the Outsider question, this was not on the Original post, but it's from Wuba's posted list of possible alignments elsewhere:

Outsider - You win if [NONSTANDARD WIN CON]. (Outsiders may have any wincon, or even no wincon. This may or may not end the game.)

As I said, I mostly buy Shake's claim, and would actually be curious to see it play out for a bit. I think the main risks of him living are a) if he is a watcher instead of an outsider (in which case he should die, but there's no hurry, I doubt a watcher would kick in any sooner than say D4); or b) if his wincon is a game ending one (in which case the same applies: he should die, but there's no hurry); or c) if he uses his votes to screw the town just to win a bet (but since we know his claim, people can watch out for it).

In brief, I for one would like to see how his gambling plays out at least for a bit. It's funny, interesting, and different. Different is good. For our own protection, he should die around D3 or D4, though.


Regarding the lynch, a consensus seems to have formed around Zombie. He's certainly scummy enough, but I'm suspicious about the massive wagon formed around him. For example:

Dariush:

Toaster for reasons outlined in #204 and general RVS shenanigans, Tolyk for the previously mentioned reasons, ZU for claiming to not read posts and Shakerag for weird RVS questions and general gut feeling, roughly in that order. And, since my vote apparently fails to draw Tolyk out from wherever he's disappeared to, it's back to Toaster.

You can call Shakerag's case a blue banana for all I care. You contradicted yourself by first saying his case on me is... uh... 'lesser' than on other people and then immediatly saying the direct opposite of that. So, basically, you jumped onto the first availible opportunity to backtrack on your words for no reason at all. Fuck you, ZU.

That's quite a jump from third on your list to vote target, and for really flimsy reasons. I don't buy it, I think you're just springing for an easy lynch or inevitable bus. Question for you: how many scum do you think are currently voting Zombie? Who are they?


Finally, wuba: please prod Penngo, Think, TolyK, and change the thread title to reflect Deathsword's and Imiknorris's replacement requests! It's hard to play with five missing people! Also, vote count, please.

[Toaster]

Quick post, but for the record, Watchers don't have to be alive to win.  (I've been a WUBA watcher twice.)


Shakerag:  Do you have to be alive to win/bet?

[Think0028]

Need Replacement, but it's for a good reason: I just got some job interviews lined up! That require traveling.

[webadict]

Why. Does everyone need. A Replacement?!?

[webadict]

Mod: Is it possible for alignments not on the list to exist in game?

It is possible for lots of things to exist in lots of places.

Vote Count
------------------------
Think0028 -
Deathsword - Urist Imiknorris,
IronyOwl -
penngo009 - Toaster,
Bookthras -
Hapah -
Urist Imiknorris -
Tiruin - Bookthras,
Dariush -
TolyK - Dariush,
Toaster - Think0028, zombie urist,
Shakerag - Deathsword, IronyOwl,
Jim Groovester -
zombie urist - Jim Groovester, penngo009, Tiruin, Shakerag, Hapah,
No Lynch -

Not Voting - TolyK,

8 To Hammer. Day Ends Wednesday 9 PM Central.

[Tiruin]

Mod: I think Dariush moved his vote onto zombie urist.

I wouldn't call Shakerag's statements regarding you a 'case', mostly due to the second part.

You know, this sentence reminds me of IWBTG's FAQ.

Q: APPLES DO NOT FALL UP

A: They're more like giant cherries....

I am talking about a completely different matter. You can call Shakerag's case a blue banana for all I care. You contradicted yourself by first saying his case on me is... uh... 'lesser' than on other people and then immediatly saying the direct opposite of that. So, basically, you jumped onto the first availible opportunity to backtrack on your words for no reason at all. Fuck you, ZU.

I consider what Tolyk did scummy because he was pretty vocal that everything he said was 'just a guess', but then he directly and strongly contradicted his own words.

Where did he "directly and strongly" say the opposite of "it's just a guess?"

...Are you even reading the thread? Or are you just repeating the same questions over and over to imitate activity? Reply #173, second to last paragraph. I don't even want to bother with quotes, since you'll repeat the same question anyway.

Accusation of being a lynch candidate. It is scummy for exactly the same reason describing someone as scum, but not voting them (or addressing them, for that matter) is.

I don't get it. How is asserting that someone's likely to get themselves lynched but not doing anything about it equivalent to stating that someone's probably scum and doing the same? What are they supposed to do about it?

For starters, his premise is wrong. I don't know where he got his information from, but I know that neither me, Shake nor Tiruin didn't get lynched on D1 for a pretty long time (for me it's around a year, minus RL5 where the town had a major case of idiotfuckassititis). He didn't support his opinions with any quotes, links or anything. And that is scummy, Johnny.

On that note, why did you move your vote anyway Dariush? The majority seems to be clear and you had some kind of case on Toaster so...what makes you think ZU deserves that vote more than TolyK?


Also, 3 replacements. D: Welp. Wishing you three well IRL!

[Tiruin]

EBWOP.

In addition to the ^

ZU

-snip-

What's all this talk about anti-town or not? 'not seeming to care who gets lynched.' can also pertain to scum...And could you clarify

Obviously if Shakerag is non-town (note this is different from anti-town), then everyone's vote on him is well-justified.

@Shakerag: I suspected Watcher because despite the believability of your claim [you'd have to get pretty creative to come up with that], sounds like it's really hard for you to win given the conditions stated. Also, what did web say? And what was the purpose of that first auto skill that just states the bastard-ism?