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[Shakerag]

[Hmm hmm hmm.  Well, this is LYLO everyone.  One scum, two town remain.  This is the peak of the endgame, and low activity will cost your team the win.]

I never intended on forming a bandwagon, outside of providing my points as clearly as I could and casting my vote. I might have tried to deliberate with you if you wanted to keep dogging Jim after his rebuttal, but his answer confirmed my read on him and affected yours without my help.

If you have good reasons for voting someone, and can convince others about your good reasons, it's not a bandwagon.  Besides, what good does it do you to be convinced someone is scum, have a solid argument, and vote them if everyone else is off circlejerking around some other player?  Great, so the person who you think is the last scum is getting no attention from everyone else.  You need to say "Hey assholes, I got the last scum here and this is why!"  Otherwise the other chuckleheads you're playing with are going to mislynch the town into a loss, right?

In the meanwhile, I need to look through the thread again with attention on how MrCelt and Jim related with the rest of us.

Why?  They flipped town, so what relations would you be looking for? 

Now, I am fairly certain where my vote is going but will wait for Shakerag to return.

If you're fairly certain where your vote is going, why do you need to wait for me?  What could I say or do that would affect where your vote is going? 


I recommend both of you give the whole game a re-read.  It may be worth your while to note Captain Ford's actions and posts while doing so.


lynx_:  You have not posted much, and this is LYLO.  This is not a good position for you to be in. 

[Shakerag]

Also:

Oppose Extend

No pussyfooting around.

[Shakerag]

Alsoalso:

Oppose Shorten

No shenanigans either.

[Reverie]

I never intended on forming a bandwagon, outside of providing my points as clearly as I could and casting my vote. I might have tried to deliberate with you if you wanted to keep dogging Jim after his rebuttal, but his answer confirmed my read on him and affected yours without my help.

If you have good reasons for voting someone, and can convince others about your good reasons, it's not a bandwagon.  Besides, what good does it do you to be convinced someone is scum, have a solid argument, and vote them if everyone else is off circlejerking around some other player?  Great, so the person who you think is the last scum is getting no attention from everyone else.  You need to say "Hey assholes, I got the last scum here and this is why!"  Otherwise the other chuckleheads you're playing with are going to mislynch the town into a loss, right?

You're right, of course. Up until now, my focus has always been to dig up and lay out evidence, but I've never really tried to convince others into buying my arguments (in any of the games that I've played). It's a real-world skill that I sorely lack. To be honest, I was not ready to stand down my vote on MrCelt just to break a tie (being so sure that he was scum, and opting instead to wait for Jim's response for me to say something).

Shakerag: If all of my evidence was already on the table, how would you suggest I try to make someone believe it without repeating myself?

In the meanwhile, I need to look through the thread again with attention on how MrCelt and Jim related with the rest of us.

Why?  They flipped town, so what relations would you be looking for? 

They were sincere in their arguments, so I add some more weight to the material they provided.
_________________________________________________

lynx_:

Flandre led the lynch on MrCelt, a lurking easy target.

I did lead the lynch on MrCelt, but if you look again, you'll see that it was when MrCelt was more active. The fact that he started lurking did him no favors, and especially since he cast an unsupported lynch vote on Jim and disappeared.

I'll zoom out on the above quote.

Points in my favour:
MrZero was really scummy D1, unable to stand up to other people's pressure.
Flandre led the lynch on MrCelt, a lurking easy target.
Scottzar, while he was here, scum-hunted and asked questions. MrZero didn't.

Points in Flandre's favour:
I disappeared and missed the vote. If I'd have voted it would've been for MrCelt or Jim even if I had been around, both have now flipped town.

 
What you listed as in your favor are negative points directed at me or contrasting your predecessor to mine. You aren't even giving them as arguments, but using them to make yourself out to be more town-like to Shakerag. Care to explain?

I trust Shakerag due to previous content, there's no hammer though so even if he votes for me it won't tell me for sure he's scum. Flandre has been rather hasty to vote though, although that could just be the playing style around here.

I read this as: "It's okay if you want to vote for me, Shakerag. I trust you."
Think super-secret townie handshake.

lynx_: Why are you vying for Shakerag's favor over actually scumhunting objectively? Also, you said you were going to wait until he posted to use your vote. Are you implying that you want for him to question me so you can mount your own attack seamlessly with his?

If you were going to vote for me, _lynx, than do so. Don't hide behind Shakerag.

[lynx_]

I trust Shakerag due to previous content, there's no hammer though so even if he votes for me it won't tell me for sure he's scum. Flandre has been rather hasty to vote though, although that could just be the playing style around here.

I read this as: "It's okay if you want to vote for me, Shakerag. I trust you."
Think super-secret townie handshake.

Well then you misread it. I'm used to majority being hammer and have never played a game in which that isn't the case.
If Shakerag had posted after you voted me without hammering, he'd have been confirmed town unless he was fucking around.
Anyway, that's not really relevant. It was just on my mind at the time.

lynx_: Why are you vying for Shakerag's favor over actually scumhunting objectively? Also, you said you were going to wait until he posted to use your vote. Are you implying that you want for him to question me so you can mount your own attack seamlessly with his?

If you were going to vote for me, _lynx, than do so. Don't hide behind Shakerag.

If Shakerag is scum, he's won as far as I'm concerned. I found nothing on him in my read-through.
You/MrZero, on the other hand...

Xny You make very poor attempts at creating good questions, are you even trying to scum hunt?

Ironically, this was MrZero's attempt to scumhunt. This and complaining about lurking.

Let's look at it like this. It was quite late, i wanted to go to sleep soon. However, i also wanted to do something with the mafia.

Creating an good attack would take far too long, it would require me to shift trough various posts, create more quote's, re-read, etc.
Thus i concluded that it wasn't worth my time, since i was short on it.

What i could do as well was to defend myself. This is a bit more flexible. You can for example just answer questions, or answers questions which refer to different posts, etc. I chose for the first option, since that was the least time consuming thing that i could do.

That's not what a townie would do with their time.

Also there's a fair number of instances in which CF could be construed as buddying MrZero/Flandre:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, I've come to a little bit of a conclusion. My scumhunting skills are almost certainly below everyone else's here, seeing as last time I played I was scum, but I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, Mr. Zero and xny are scumbuddies. I emphasize the maybe. They seem a bit too eager to go at each others throats, and I get the impression that they're trying to cast suspicion off of themselves by constantly bombarding each other with questions and responses. I know I should probably grow a spine and be a bit more binary in my answers, but its a bit harder when you're used to actually knowing from the start who was town and who was your scumbuddy.

So, that's a vote for Mr. Zero.

To me, most of the posting between xny and Mr. Zero seems to be mostly them trying to figure out each other's garbled posts. But it seems odd to me to label the two most active scumhunters as scum. Particularly when there are players who haven't participated much at all.

You, on the other hand, have been quick to point out your inexperience with scumhunting, due to you having never played town before, almost as a replacement for actual scumhunting. You're the only one so far who's given me a weird feeling, and I think that's why. What say you, ShoesandHats?

Buddying AND chainsaw. It's like Christmas come early!
Then later,

ShoesandHats: You said before that you thought xny and zero might be a scumteam. Why haven't you put any pressure on xny?

At this point MrZero looked likely to be lynched, I'm surprised nobody noted CF's desperate buddying at the time.

I've been counting posts since the start, and it's always been my impression that Mr. Zero was getting so much attention because he's posted nearly twice as much as anyone else. (He's at 41 posts as of this moment. Next closest is xny/scottzar with 26 (21+5), and then Nerjin with 21)

ShoesandHats struck me as scummy when I realized he kept emphasizing his lack of experience. Since then he's dodged and ignored questions, and made no more than a token effort at scumhunting.

At this point, I would support a Shorten. I'm satisfied with my vote, and there probably isn't anything that would change it unless someone made a truly spectacular slip. And, honestly, the day is just dragging on ... the posts are beginning to blur together and I feel like I'm not going to get anywhere new until we see somebody flip.

This whole post is interesting. First bit, blatantly defending MrZero. The second, hammering home the lynch of his votal contender. And finally, a request to shorten before he can get in any more trouble!

Captain Ford, Who is your second-most suspicious?

Right now, the only other person who stands out is Mr. Zero, just because of the sheer number of bizarre and nearly illegible posts he makes. But at the same time, it doesn't strike me as a particularly smart way for scum to behave.

Does Mr.Zero replacing out change your willingness to vote?

When I cast my vote, I was hoping to evoke an immediate reaction. I didn't expect Mr.Zero to suddenly become busy. So that didn't work. Unvote.

I've re-read up to page 23 now, will check the rest later but what I've got is certainly enough to vote: Flandre

[lynx_]

EBWOP

Flandre

[lynx_]

Now, I am fairly certain where my vote is going but will wait for Shakerag to return.

If you're fairly certain where your vote is going, why do you need to wait for me?  What could I say or do that would affect where your vote is going?

You could say something scummy. It's LYLO, I was never going to be throwing my vote around without at least hearing from people was I? Just in case.

I've also finished reading up to this point.
Flandre, what were your reasons for thinking MrCelt scummy beyond the mislynch/no-lynch nonsense and inactivity?

[lynx_]

Day ends tomorrow, what was this about low activity losing the game? Shakerag, put a vote down.
A no-lynch will lose town the game whoever is scum.

Mod, when exactly is deadline?

[zombie urist]

Current vote count:

Flandre [1]: lynx_
lynx_ [1]: Flandre
Shakerag:

Not voting: Shakerag

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
2 votes needed to shorten the day

Day 4 will end Monday, December 10th at 9:00 PM PST.

Mod, when exactly is deadline?

See above.

[Jim Groovester]

Lurking at lylo is a town loss.

Get to posting. There should be lots more arguing than this.

[Dariush]

Yep. A good subject to argue about would be tomorrow's weather.

[lynx_]

Ho hum, three days since I posted and no response. Shakerag, I'd really appreciate you coming back and putting a vote down.
We won't get an extension either considering Flandre is probably scum and Shakerag opposed it then disappeared.

[Shakerag]

Shakerag: If all of my evidence was already on the table, how would you suggest I try to make someone believe it without repeating myself?

Repeating yourself is a good start.  If you keep putting your argument out there, more people are seeing it and it has a greater chance of influencing those who are reading it.  Also, poke at other people's arguments.  "Hey, I know you are voting X for Y, but I think my case on A (which is B) more clearly shows A is scummier than Y.  Why are you voting X for poor reasons like Y, when A did B which is way scummier?"  Or something to that effect.

If Shakerag had posted after you voted me without hammering, he'd have been confirmed town unless he was fucking around.

Feels WIFOMy.  I wouldn't put too much stock in reasoning like that.


This is a bit of a tough one.  I felt I was getting a newbtown read off Mr. Zero early on, but I also felt xny was giving me a town read as well.  I can't recall anything that Flandre has done that set off alarms, and Scottzar didn't really strike me as scum either, minus the bits that Jim addressed (which I'm not 100% convinced peg him as scum). 

I think lynx_ is presenting the stronger argument at the moment, however.  His spoilered section in post #454 looks pretty compelling, and paints a poor picture of Captain Ford and Mr. Zero. 

Can you come up with better, Flandre?

[lynx_]

If Shakerag had posted after you voted me without hammering, he'd have been confirmed town unless he was fucking around.

Feels WIFOMy.  I wouldn't put too much stock in reasoning like that.

I meant if we could hammer in this game. Basically that's not an issue, it was just on my mind at the time.
I'm just worried Shakerag is scum, I'll have another look at his posts this evening if I get time but it looks like Flandre is to be lynched.

As it's currently 11pm here and deadline is tomorrow morning when I have class, I probably won't be able to respond to anything ze (pronoun?) has to say.

[Urist Imiknorris]

As it's currently 11pm here and deadline is tomorrow morning when I have class, I probably won't be able to respond to anything ze (pronoun?) has to say.

This is what extensions are for.