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[MrCelt]

Finally: is your case against Scottzar strong enough for you to want to hang him?

Is any case, really..? - I tend to vote towards hanging the most scummy, and at that current point, Scottzar was the only one who I considered scummy.

[zombie urist]

Day ends is ~12 hours.

[MrCelt]

In case I don't get to post again, extend

[Reverie]

MrCelt:

Finally: is your case against Scottzar strong enough for you to want to hang him?

Is any case, really..? - I tend to vote towards hanging the most scummy, and at that current point, Scottzar was the only one who I considered scummy.

That question was actually intended for Jim, but I should have probably addressed it directly to him rather than just place it under his section in my post.

-You claim that today is expendable, but a mislynch favors scum however you look at it. Scum gladly settle for a mislynch, and apparently, so do you.  How would you connect those dots?

If we NL'd, we'd be at Four-Way Lylo, with our top suspect, who may not be mafia, probably being lynched.
If we Lynched, we'd be at three way, assuming our top suspect was not mafia.

In three way lylo, there is a 1/3 chance of killing scum, with our top suspects removed and more votes to read off of.
In four way lylo, there is a 1/4 chance of killing scum, with our top suspect probably kept alive by the mafia so we ML him into a mafia win.

No-lynching was never even a factor in determining odds for me, considering how terrible an idea that is.
Let's put it this way: it is in the remaining scum's agenda to mislynch tonight. This is his only course of action (as it is at the end of every day). You are openly pushing that agenda, and sitting on your vote, besides. Were you intending on using that vote, or are you content with just preaching better odds for town tomorrow and waiting for the day to end?

[Shakerag]

Extend

Let's not have a tie, people.

[Reverie]

Agreed. Extend.

[zombie urist]

Extended to Friday pfp

[MrCelt]

No-lynching was never even a factor in determining odds for me, considering how terrible an idea that is.
Let's put it this way: it is in the remaining scum's agenda to mislynch tonight. This is his only course of action (as it is at the end of every day). You are openly pushing that agenda, and sitting on your vote, besides. Were you intending on using that vote, or are you content with just preaching better odds for town tomorrow and waiting for the day to end?

1) I'm not suggesting we MISLYNCH. I'm saying we lynch our highest suspect instead of NL'ing, and even a ML is better than a NL.
2) I really don't want to vote until scottzar gets a replacement.
3) I've been trying to extend since forever, Not been waiting for the day to end. I'm in fact the FIRST person extending in many circumstances.

Jim,

Why did you not want an extension? it was quite clear nothing would be done if not extending, bringing us to 4way lylo, which is less advantageous than 3way lylo.

[Jim Groovester]

Yourself, Jim: Was in an argument with shakerag, but appears to be ignoring it, instead choosing to get scottzar. I should think you'll be
back defending against shakerag now scottzar has gone.

Yes, I will be defending myself against Shakerag, because that's what you do when somebody attacks you. This does not affect my opinion about Scottzar.

I don't follow what the hell your point is.

Why did you not want an extension? it was quite clear nothing would be done if not extending, bringing us to 4way lylo, which is less advantageous than 3way lylo.

Extensions are supposed to give people more time to do stuff. If nothing's getting done, what's the point of the extension?

If I was formally against an extension, I would have opposed it. I oppose useless extensions requested by people like you who refuse to make up their goddamn minds and refuse to do anything with the extensions that have already been given.

Jim,

Why did you not want an extension? it was quite clear nothing would be done if not extending, bringing us to 4way lylo, which is less advantageous than 3way lylo.

Yes, I am aware you asked that question. Mayhaps you'd like to give a little fucking slack to the people who are busy with family on Thanksgiving?

I hope you have better reasons to vote me than pressure on an important American holiday.

That was the WIFOMy advantage he was referring to.

Ah, I see.

And how does that factor in to your case?

Finally: is your case against Scottzar strong enough for you to want to hang him?

Yes.

Have I just been flapping my mouth uselessly...? This is exactly what I've been saying since Scottzar asked for a replacement.

[zombie urist]

Current vote count:

MrCelt [1]: Flandre
Flandre [1]: Scottzar
scottzar [1]: Jim Groovester
Jim Groovester [2]: Shakerag, Mr.Celt
Shakerag:

Not voting:

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Day 3 will end Friday, November 23rd at 9:00 PM PST.
Happy Thanksgiving!

[Jim Groovester]

MrCelt, you motherfucker. You posted everywhere today except for here.

Good work, very town of you.

I won't be killed so easily, not without dragging it out and digging up everything I can on you first.

Extend.

[Reverie]

Extend, and more incoming.

[zombie urist]

Day extended to 9:00 PM PST Tuesday, November 27th.

[Reverie]

MrCelt:

1) I'm not suggesting we MISLYNCH. I'm saying we lynch our highest suspect instead of NL'ing, and even a ML is better than a NL.
2) I really don't want to vote until scottzar gets a replacement.
3) I've been trying to extend since forever, Not been waiting for the day to end. I'm in fact the FIRST person extending in many circumstances.

1) You weren't suggesting to mislynch. You were holding onto your vote and telling the rest of us how bad an idea no-lynching is.
2) Whoever replaces in for Scottzar could not possibly refute your case against him. Speaking realistically, whatever the replacement says will not make or break your suspicions, so why wait until he steps in to vote? Do you see what you are telling us? Share with us your current case against Scottzar, and whatever you were going to ask of him, if anything.
3) You can't speak for what scum would or wouldn't do, so that hardly counts as a gold star on your township poster. A scumtell, maybe. What are your thoughts on "This is why I'm town:" arguments?

Jim

Lacking in support up until day end.
Noted.

Jim:

Yes.

Have I just been flapping my mouth uselessly...? This is exactly what I've been saying since Scottzar asked for a replacement.

I should have made the intended meaning of my question clearer. I wanted to know if you had the same intention to lynch Scottzar even now that he is not participating (it comes to the same answer, either way).

Ah, I see.

And how does that factor in to your case?

It doesn't, now that I realise that my follow-up question falsely regarded Shakerag as voting Ford before he died, rather than the other way around. My scumdar picked up on a mismatch, and that was likely my own fault.
I think my argument can be best described with the relevant post (the error is in green, and should be "Did Shakerag's vote on Ford...". (He did not pick up on the error as far as I can tell.)

Spoiler: complicated mess (click to show/hide)

Shakerag was voted by Captain, who flipped mafia. Seems fairly clear, Groovester on the other hand does not have this advantage on their side.
Flandre has taken over the role of Mr. Zero - From what I read of Mr. Zero, I consider him to be more of a newbie townie that a mafia - Also voted Captain ford when there was no bandwagon, not something a mafia would usually do.

You can't effectively deduce who the mafia are by considering probable events as a basis for your arguments/reads. Speculations on the woulds and coulds of scum behavior are counter-productive and only serves to look colorful and busy.
That being said, the former statement you made in the above quote (about Shakerag's advantage over Jim) doesn't line up properly with your response to my question:
 

Did Ford's vote on Shakerag compel you into thinking that Shakerag was town? With Jim and Shakerag in opposition (as you say), does this have any influence on your read of Jim as well?

Ford's vote on Shakerag does not say anything to me due to tactics such as bussing et cetera, if ford believed he may die, he could try such a tactic to effectively 'clear' Shakerag. however the way Shakerag plays suggests him being town. Yes, I realise he's an experienced IC. - With Jim and Shakerag in opposition, I definitely am able to get a better read off on Jim, but nothing that suggests him being mafia, however, given the experience of the two players, it is not impossible they are two mafia working together to effectively bus.

You dismiss biases on the matter to WIFOM, and by extension, the idea that Shakerag had any advantage over Jim after all. If you do not hold to your own contributions, are they just empty words? Superficial claims that are made to look busy?

MrCelt: Kindly define 'advantage' in the context of your reads between Jim and Shakerag. Minus the wine, do you have a read for either of them?

[MrCelt]

I won't be killed so easily, not without dragging it out and digging up everything I can on you first.

Whilst this is not the response I was wanting, I'll roll with it. Please dig this stuff up for me, Jim, and while you're at it, why did you respond SO aggressively?

MrCelt:

1) I'm not suggesting we MISLYNCH. I'm saying we lynch our highest suspect instead of NL'ing, and even a ML is better than a NL.
2) I really don't want to vote until scottzar gets a replacement.
3) I've been trying to extend since forever, Not been waiting for the day to end. I'm in fact the FIRST person extending in many circumstances.

1) You weren't suggesting to mislynch. You were holding onto your vote and telling the rest of us how bad an idea no-lynching is.
2) Whoever replaces in for Scottzar could not possibly refute your case against him. Speaking realistically, whatever the replacement says will not make or break your suspicions, so why wait until he steps in to vote? Do you see what you are telling us? Share with us your current case against Scottzar, and whatever you were going to ask of him, if anything.
3) You can't speak for what scum would or wouldn't do, so that hardly counts as a gold star on your township poster. A scumtell, maybe. What are your thoughts on "This is why I'm town:" arguments?

1) Yes, that's true, and I'm sorry; I also think you'll probably note that I retracted my vote as quickly as I put it on, but I can promise you that that is due to the sporadic playstyle that have followed me from epicmafia, which I apologise for.
2) That's a pretty good point.
3) Those types of arguments are kind of useless, and would be more of a scumtell than a towntell, but, alike everything in mafia, they can be used in a WIFOM way, like: "well, as I'm town, I don't care about scumtells, so you can't use that argument."