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[Reverie]

With Jim and Shakerag in opposition, I definitely am able to get a better read off on Jim, but nothing that suggests him being mafia, however, given the experience of the two players, it is not impossible they are two mafia working together to effectively bus.

Ford died and flipped scum, so we know this isn't the case.

[MrCelt]

With Jim and Shakerag in opposition, I definitely am able to get a better read off on Jim, but nothing that suggests him being mafia, however, given the experience of the two players, it is not impossible they are two mafia working together to effectively bus.

Ford died and flipped scum, so we know this isn't the case.

I'm not sure I understand - Are there only two scum in the game, CF being one?

[Reverie]

With Jim and Shakerag in opposition, I definitely am able to get a better read off on Jim, but nothing that suggests him being mafia, however, given the experience of the two players, it is not impossible they are two mafia working together to effectively bus.

Ford died and flipped scum, so we know this isn't the case.

I'm not sure I understand - Are there only two scum in the game, CF being one?

Yeppers.

[MrCelt]

With Jim and Shakerag in opposition, I definitely am able to get a better read off on Jim, but nothing that suggests him being mafia, however, given the experience of the two players, it is not impossible they are two mafia working together to effectively bus.

Ford died and flipped scum, so we know this isn't the case.

I'm not sure I understand - Are there only two scum in the game, CF being one?

Yeppers.

Oh. I had assumed there were three. - If that is so, then you are correct that that is impossible.

[Jim Groovester]

Mr. Groovester:  I know you have maths up the butt, however your D2 performance was ... sub-par.  You didn't vote, and you barely scumhunted.  Get your apron and spatula handy, because I want to see you start grilling.

Yes, yes, I'm a terrible person and a terrible IC.

I need to reread; will post with thoughts and questions after that.

In the meantime, one scum has flipped, and this typically makes it many times easier to figure out who the remaining scum is. Going over interactions that Captain Ford had with others could shed some light on who that is. I'd encourage looking back, like I plan to.

Also voted Captain ford when there was no bandwagon, not something a mafia would usually do.

Depends on when that happened. In the RVS, don't discount the possibility that scum would vote each other. After real suspicions start flying around, this assumption becomes more, but not completely, correct.

G'damn it. It was a double post, what am I to do?

Leave it.

No edits, not even to pretty up your post or the thread.

In this situation, the easy option would be to vote shoes or zero, adding in confusing comments to dissuade town but he was resilient in his 'scumhunt' and would not flip to those he thought were townish. - Even when it meant he would stand outside of the crowd in the spotlight.

I'm just going to say the following: it was late at day, very near end. Unless he uncovered a new slip, it would have appeared bandwagon-y to jump on someone (i.e. Shoes). If he was scum, he'd locked himself into a hole by being too busy to switch to join a bandwagon before it was apparent what it was.
He couldn't vote Zero, because that would cause a D1 NL, where NL's outside of MYLO or role-heavy decision making are amazingly pro-scum, especially on D1 due to lack of reads; forcing a tie would destroy his cover.

Also, again, you're giving meta-reasons as to why you think he is town. But if he was scum, he'd be acting in whatever way makes him appear the most town, regardless.

For what it's worth, my read on Shakerag is Town; he's clearly busy, but contributes heavily when he posts.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make or why this is worth arguing about.

Shakerag: has been leading the town well with his available time, and picking up on slips which others miss. Either he is flawlessly bussing scum who is going to stomp the town, or he is the hero we all deserve.

Do you have anything bad to say about Shakerag?

Jim: Slightly scummy. You are an experienced player and an IC, like Shakerag, so it's hard for me to get a decent read on you. It seems a little outside of the norm for you to withhold your vote, though, so that has some influence.
You did say earlier that Mr. Zero was your premier suspect in a pool of weak suspects. Do you have any suspicions other than with Mr. Zero and I? On another note, can it be a wise approach to town-hunt rather than scumhunt (ie. looking for town-tells and deducing scum through deduction) in difficult games such as these?

No, not particularly, which is why I need to reread the thread and pick it apart.

I'll say Captain Ford wasn't on my radar at all, so I was surprised to see him flip scum. Nabic was mildly on my radar, and then he was killed, so that leaves you and whatever I dig up when I reread.

I can't recommend townhunting since it's not something I know how to do nor have I tried it. Actively looking for the people you don't need to lynch doesn't sound like that great of a strategy to me.

[Scottzar]

In this situation, the easy option would be to vote shoes or zero, adding in confusing comments to dissuade town but he was resilient in his 'scumhunt' and would not flip to those he thought were townish. - Even when it meant he would stand outside of the crowd in the spotlight.

I'm just going to say the following: it was late at day, very near end. Unless he uncovered a new slip, it would have appeared bandwagon-y to jump on someone (i.e. Shoes). If he was scum, he'd locked himself into a hole by being too busy to switch to join a bandwagon before it was apparent what it was.
He couldn't vote Zero, because that would cause a D1 NL, where NL's outside of MYLO or role-heavy decision making are amazingly pro-scum, especially on D1 due to lack of reads; forcing a tie would destroy his cover.

Also, again, you're giving meta-reasons as to why you think he is town. But if he was scum, he'd be acting in whatever way makes him appear the most town, regardless.

For what it's worth, my read on Shakerag is Town; he's clearly busy, but contributes heavily when he posts.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make or why this is worth arguing about.

He said that by drawing suspicion to himself, Shakerag appeared to be town. I was just pointing out that town-tells are illogical because scum try to make them.
It really isn't worth arguing about, but I was just flailing about because I hadn't seen anything interesting yet.

Shakerag: has been leading the town well with his available time, and picking up on slips which others miss. Either he is flawlessly bussing scum who is going to stomp the town, or he is the hero we all deserve.

Do you have anything bad to say about Shakerag?

Yes, indeed, now that I've checked old posts. Shakerag seems far too town. He also spent all of his time on CF, for strange reasons. I really should have picked up on this earlier.
CF unvoted someone from his RVS vote. Shakerag, as far as I can tell, proceeded to vote him for this, while doing basically the same (unvoting from pressure on a random question) in his own post.
Shakerag then unvoted after I had subbed in, and both Mr.Zero and ShoesandHats (particularly shoes) had large numbers of people attacking them.
Shakerag pressure voted CF along with a question. The day ended and he along with Nabic (who was murdered by scum) drove a lynch home on CF.

Shakerag: is this summary of events correct? Is there anything you want to add?
Can you give me a summary of your case (if any) on Captain Ford from D2?

[Jim Groovester]

Someone looking too town isn't a scumtell, it's a fallacy. In fact, we call it the Too Town Fallacy.

It is impossible for the qualities that make a player appear town to implicate that player as scum. It just doesn't make any sense.

Regardless, this is a reversal of your previous position on Shakerag, because one post prior to the one you just made, you declared you thought he was town and had nothing but glowing things to say about his skill. Now, you suspect him, even committing the Too Town Fallacy to do it.

Looks like someone changed their opinion because they were worried they didn't want to look like they were buddying. Isn't that right, Scottzar?

[Scottzar]

Someone looking too town isn't a scumtell, it's a fallacy. In fact, we call it the Too Town Fallacy.

It is impossible for the qualities that make a player appear town to implicate that player as scum. It just doesn't make any sense.

Regardless, this is a reversal of your previous position on Shakerag, because one post prior to the one you just made, you declared you thought he was town and had nothing but glowing things to say about his skill. Now, you suspect him, even committing the Too Town Fallacy to do it.

Looks like someone changed their opinion because they were worried they didn't want to look like they were buddying. Isn't that right, Scottzar?

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, but he is performing actions which look townie but require a scums knowledge.

I'll just quote what I mean.
Captain ford entered RVS:

Nerjin, If you were scum, and your head was on the chopping block, would you out your partner to save yourself?

Then unvoted from RVS:

Captain Ford, you've been voting Nerjin since your first post this game. Why?

Random vote. I always meant to follow it up but never found the time. Honestly, I'm just having a lot of difficulty parsing everything that's going on. So I ended up putting together a spreadsheet to help me get a handle on it, and in the process noticed that kingfisher hadn't participated at all. So I called him out on it before I had to leave for class yesterday, and, well...

Sadly, I have no means with which to post for the next two weeks.
Request replacement.

... that happened.

I need to get some work done today before class, after which I'll make an effort to post tonight. I'm busy tomorrow evening, too, so I'll likely miss the end of the day unless there's another extension.

As for Nerjin, hmm... you're off the hook ... for now. Unvote

Shakerag then took this as a reason to vote, despite it being a logical action from a town perspective; CF was putting pressure elsewhere instead.

Captain Ford: What's stopping you from following up on Nerjin?

I can't see how CF possibly slipped in unvoting, he maybe he should have put pressure on Nerjin anyway but Shakerag didn't call him out on that. Instead, he called him out on not following him up; but CF never had a case on Nerjin.

Shakerag kept his vote there, until unvoting out for a similar reason: there was no point keeping the vote there.

Unvoting for now.  I think it's funny how we went from ganging up on Mr.Zero to ShoesandHats, and I want to look into that a bit more.

This conveniently didn't attach him to the doctor lynch, and he could remain neutral on Mr.Zero because it would have been a tie if he voted that way.

Shakerag then used a pressure vote on D2 again on CF, who is the only person they had made a serious case on. Due to that day's abnormalities, the vote went through and CF was lynched.

Captain Ford ... so do you think Mr.Zero was indeed scum then, or "at the center of a lot of misunderstandings"?

Ergo, his attacks on CF were largely unsubstantiated, and considering CF was scum, this implies either blind flailing luck or knowing something he shouldn't. Skakerag is either a cop or a scum, or inexperienced, and the third of these is impossible.


EXTEND: we need more time, noteably for flandre.

Flandre: still waiting for you to post more reasons. My case on Mr.Zero was that he didn't scumhunt enough, and you haven't done much either.

Jim: Your opinion on MrCelt, please. I haven't got a good read on him in comparison to others, and his previous incarnations barely posted.
Further, do you find Shakerag scummy at all? How much is their pressure vote on you influencing this decision, if at all?

[MrCelt]

I think anExtension is the best Idea.

[Shakerag]

Voting - Votes are cast in red and should include the name of the targeted player. Other colors may be ignored.

Votes for extension/shorten are done in boldface. Extend, Extension, Extend it up yo, Shorten it out y'all are acceptable ways to vote for an extension/shorten

[MrCelt, you did read the opening post in full, yes?]

Busy morning; working on a post.

[MrCelt]

Voting - Votes are cast in red and should include the name of the targeted player. Other colors may be ignored.

Votes for extension/shorten are done in boldface. Extend, Extension, Extend it up yo, Shorten it out y'all are acceptable ways to vote for an extension/shorten

[MrCelt, you did read the opening post in full, yes?]

Busy morning; working on a post.

Yeah. - It says bold. Nothing about not having it red. Red is colourful.

[MrCelt]

I'm sorry everyone, I fucked up day end. I missed Scottzar's extension request, so Captain Ford shouldn't have been lynched yesterday

Also given this, red text may be useful in drawing attention.

[Shakerag]

Voting - Votes are cast in red and should include the name of the targeted player. Other colors may be ignored.

Votes for extension/shorten are done in boldface. Extend, Extension, Extend it up yo, Shorten it out y'all are acceptable ways to vote for an extension/shorten

[MrCelt, you did read the opening post in full, yes?]

Busy morning; working on a post.

Yeah. - It says bold. Nothing about not having it red. Red is colourful.

[Yes, but the rules say you vote in red.  Therefore you just voted for a player named "Extend".  Given that there is no player named "Extend", typically when you vote for a non-valid target the mod will count it as an unvote.]

[zombie urist]

Current vote count:

MrCelt:
Flandre:
scottzar [1]: Jim Groovester
Jim Groovester [1]: Shakerag
Shakerag:

Not voting: MrCelt, Flandre, scottzar

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Day 3 will end Thursday, November 15th at 9:00 PM PST.
Day extended to Thursday, November 15th.

In the future please do not extend in red.

[Scottzar]

Extension requests: 0

EXTEND: we need more time, noteably for flandre.