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[Jim Groovester]

Go fuck yourself, I'm sick. You'll get a post when I damn well feel like it and that is not now.

[Jim Groovester]

Shakerag: Do you have any opinion about MrCelt's reasons for voting me, or more accurately, complete lack thereof?

-So in your professional opinion, you think Scottzar's actions (generally speaking, referring to his "case" on me) to be genuinely scummy as opposed to newbing it up? 

Yes.

You don't think so? Tell me how the stuff he's done is better explainable by him being a noob than him being scum.

Honestly?  Okay, here's how I think it went down.  Scottzar looked at my gameplay, couldn't find anything scummy, noted that I was on a scum lynch, and (coupled with being an IC) decided that I must be solidly town.  This idea is likely pretty set in his mind.  Then when you (as another IC, pillar of mafia gameplay that we are) question him *specifically* to look over my gameplay to see if he can "find anything bad to say" about me it puts him on the spot.  Why is the IC asking me to look for something bad about a person I think is solidly town?  Did I miss something?  Does he see something I don't?  There must be something there if the IC is asking me! 

And so, when one is trying hard to look for something they presume must be there, they'll find something, anything, and rationalize it to fit with what they're looking for.  Hence why it seems that Scottzar "reversed" his opinion. 

An experienced player, in my opinion, would stick by thier town analysis if they thought it correct.  But a new player being questioned by an IC ... You see where I'm going with this?  So I think your jumping on Scottzar for flipping his position is a lame ass reason for voting him.  It looks like a newbie bowing under pressure from an IC to deliver something that's being asked for.

Scottzar was no wilting flower. He was someone who entered the game with strong opinions about how it should be played, and players like that are not the type to bend backwards and reverse position from a single question regardless of whether it came from an IC or not. Your characterization is inaccurate because Scottzar was not lacking in confidence in how he played.

He's had cause to argue with me even over my IC opinion so I don't understand how he would suddenly become nervous over what I asked him. Scottzar reacted to my question, but it was not because he suddenly doubted himself because he thought I challenged him.

Sure there's a shift.  But there was an external influence (you) between those statements.  Newbies "buddying" up to ICs is nothing new or unexpected.  The reasons he suddenly think I'm scummy for *are* bad, perhaps, but that's due to a newbie being pressured by an IC, IMO. 

Why are you brushing away buddying as if it's no big deal?

Isn't it a big deal? Shouldn't instances of buddying be looked at regardless of how common it is or not?

I don't understand why you're so blase about it.

Fair enough.  Too much wine on that point.

Why'd you make it then?

Because they've been absent up until recently and I've had nothing to ask and I've been waiting to see what they produce on their own before I prod them aggressively about it.

Nothing to ask?  That seems uncharacteristic of you.  Why not prod them aggressively to produce said content?

I thought they'd have the decency to produce content in a timely manner. My mistake.

I can't find it in the rules and I'm not used to votes in text, do you cut the day short with a majority vote? If so I currently have the opportunity to hammer either MrCelt or Jim. I'm leaning towards Jim at the moment, Shakerag why are you so sure he's scum?

Why the hell are you leaning towards me when MrCelt has failed to produce reasons for voting me despite being repeatedly asked and prodded to?

Sure, go after the guy who has a case, not the guy who's deliberately avoiding making one. Because that makes sense.

[Shakerag]

Go fuck yourself, I'm sick. You'll get a post when I damn well feel like it and that is not now.

Well, if you're sick, I guess I wouldn't want to be fucking you.

Shakerag: Do you have any opinion about MrCelt's reasons for voting me, or more accurately, complete lack thereof?

It looks pretty lazy, considering the only target he pegged previously as scummy was Scottzar.

Scottzar was no wilting flower. He was someone who entered the game with strong opinions about how it should be played, and players like that are not the type to bend backwards and reverse position from a single question regardless of whether it came from an IC or not. Your characterization is inaccurate because Scottzar was not lacking in confidence in how he played.

He's had cause to argue with me even over my IC opinion so I don't understand how he would suddenly become nervous over what I asked him. Scottzar reacted to my question, but it was not because he suddenly doubted himself because he thought I challenged him.

Okay, fair enough.  But then why would he go after Flandre of all targets?

Sure there's a shift.  But there was an external influence (you) between those statements.  Newbies "buddying" up to ICs is nothing new or unexpected.  The reasons he suddenly think I'm scummy for *are* bad, perhaps, but that's due to a newbie being pressured by an IC, IMO. 

Why are you brushing away buddying as if it's no big deal?

Isn't it a big deal? Shouldn't instances of buddying be looked at regardless of how common it is or not?

I don't understand why you're so blase about it.

Buddying in general, yes.  But I'd say that "buddying" in the context of a BM is a little different, and possibly even expected (when directed toward an IC).  New players looking for something/one to latch on to that seems solid and all. 

Fair enough.  Too much wine on that point.

Why'd you make it then?

Because I wasn't taking WIFOM into consideration when I orginally said what I did.   


I'm still feeling Flandre is town, and I've got little case on Jim now that he's responded to my points.  MrCelt feels like scum for reasons Flandre's outlined, and because I suspect he voted Jim to buddy up to me and get a lazy mislynch in.  My second pick is still lynx_ (inherited from Scottzar), mostly due to Jim's case on him.  I've still got a small amount of gut feeling Jim could be scum yet, but I'll abstain from voting on gut feelings.

[zombie urist]

Current vote count:

MrCelt [3]: Flandre, Jim Groovester, Shakerag
Flandre [1]: Scottzar
scottzar:
Jim Groovester [1]: Mr.Celt
Shakerag:

Not voting:

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Day 3 will end Monday, December 3rd at 9:00 PM PST.
Day ends in ~10 hours.

[Jim Groovester]

Okay, fair enough.  But then why would he go after Flandre of all targets?

What's so special about Flandre?

She replaced Mr.Zero, who gave Scottzar lots to go after.

[Shakerag]

Okay, fair enough.  But then why would he go after Flandre of all targets?

What's so special about Flandre?

She replaced Mr.Zero, who gave Scottzar lots to go after.

I would just think he would have gone after you (possibly before his "slip" to buddy up to me), or myself (because now all of a sudden I look suspicious). 

[Jim Groovester]

Being confident enough in your abilities that you'd be willing to go after ICs doesn't mean that that's the best or easiest way to go for a win.

[Reverie]

Flandre:  That's a nice case you have there and all, but since we have a tie, what are you going to do now to convince everyone else to vote with you?

I never intended on forming a bandwagon, outside of providing my points as clearly as I could and casting my vote. I might have tried to deliberate with you if you wanted to keep dogging Jim after his rebuttal, but his answer confirmed my read on him and affected yours without my help.

Today was really long. Unless MrCelt shows up to make good of his extension or someone makes a spectacular slip, my mind is made that MrCelt should die.

lynx_ and MrCelt:

Spoiler: Click Me (click to show/hide)

[Tiruin]

Spoiler: Click Me (click to show/hide)

((<3))

[Dariush]

[spoiler=Click Me]

This should be the standard prod message.

Also,

[zombie urist]

MrCelt gets lynched, he was a vanilla town.

Night 3 ends Thursday, Dec 6th at 9:00 PM PST.

Been kinda busy. 

[zombie urist]

Everyone wakes up, except for Jim, because he's dead. Also all the other dead guys, because they're also dead.

Jim Groovester has been killed! He was a vanilla townie.

Day 4 will end Monday, Dec 10.

Please be active for LyLo.

[Reverie]

To start off, I would like to hear what lynx_ has to say about his absence and withheld vote through the end of the day.
In the meanwhile, I need to look through the thread again with attention on how MrCelt and Jim related with the rest of us.

[Jim Groovester]

Now that I'm dead, I still get to instruct you on what to do, although this late in the game I expect I won't have very much to say, especially with Shakerag still around.

It's lylo, meaning that the town must lynch scum or they lose, so be sure to give everyone their fair share of scrutiny. Look hard and close at the two remaining players and grill them over anything you can find in the game.

Good luck.

[lynx_]

I was ill at the end of the day, I messaged zombo as much when I realised the day had ended.
Now, I am fairly certain where my vote is going but will wait for Shakerag to return.

Points in my favour:
MrZero was really scummy D1, unable to stand up to other people's pressure.
Flandre led the lynch on MrCelt, a lurking easy target.
Scottzar, while he was here, scum-hunted and asked questions. MrZero didn't.

Points in Flandre's favour:
I disappeared and missed the vote. If I'd have voted it would've been for MrCelt or Jim even if I had been around, both have now flipped town.

I trust Shakerag due to previous content, there's no hammer though so even if he votes for me it won't tell me for sure he's scum. Flandre has been rather hasty to vote though, although that could just be the playing style around here.