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[GreatWyrmGold]

We don't have godlike charisma, and brainwashing people is -extremely- hard to do. It's also likely to backfire.


When I said "LCS style" early in the thread, I implied "attain loyal subworks to avoid getting our hands dirty". This excludes the videogame element of being the reeincarnation of Che Guevera, Adolf Hitler, Naploeon, And Karl Marx rolled into one in terms of charismatic abiltiy. That just dosen't happen.

You forgot one.
Sorry, I'm just that anal this time of the day.

Wait, what would make us Napoleonic? Height or a lack of Hitler's strategic brilliance? Incidentally, bazinga on the last phrase.

Spoiler: Dude, you just pissed off a history enthusiast.  Have fun with that. (click to show/hide)

Two things wrong with what you said ('least, two thing's I'm going to pick on):
1) Napoleon was 5' 6"

2) While you're right they were both idiots, they both had the same plans, and they both made the same mistakes.
 a)Napoleon was mainly opposed by Britain, so he decided to try and cut them off in terms of supply.  Did not work for Hitler either.
 b)They both allied with Russia, but it did not stand.
 c)They both united and were brought down by the major allied powers (minus Prussia/Germany in Hitler's case, because duh).
 d)Both were inexplicably charismatic, but neither knew how to really use that.
 e)They were both tyrants first in the Greek sense (of being rulers by popular vote) then became tyrants in the modern sense (evil, maniacal, and absolute).
 f)Both stirred up nationalism.
 g)Both invaded Russia, both points that became the turning point of the war.  Because they lost horribly when winter came.

Oh, and both faced a guerrilla war in a country they defeated early on.  As Hitler had France, Napoleon had Spain.

So yeah, pretty damn similar.

1. Napoleon is well-known for being height-conscious. Who cares if he was actually short? I was halfway joking there, anyway.
2. Napoleon was more successful before Russia, and never said his artillery could only be used by his personal command.

Yeah.  It sounds really fucking counter-intuitive, but it is much easier to blow a military base the hell up than it is to steal a shit-ton of gold from it.  So much fucking easier.

Aside from the fact that destroying a military base provokes more response than robbing it and that 4.5 kilotons of gold is really shiny, there's no benefit to robbing Ft. Knox dry. An argument could be made for robbing some of Knox, especially if we didn't have a lot of gold.
Of course, you would need a LOT of gold to make a profit on this...and a LOT of explosives to destroy the gold in Knox.

But let's try to get back on-topic...where were we when we left off?

[Thecard]

I know, I know, we gotta get back to the actual topic, but no, he wasn't known for being height-conscious.  The height thing was because France switched to the metric system, which made Napoleon seem shorter than he really was.  He's known for being short, but that's inaccurate, so I'm not going to count that as a good history joke.

I think we were either biding our time, or perusing stores looking for a suitably white and fluffy cat to stroke.

[LordBucket]

where were we when we left off?

Waiting for me to type up and post a new update since the writeup-in-process was lost due to human induced savefile error.

and a LOT of explosives to destroy the gold in Knox.

In the movie being referred to, I think the premise was that an especially dirty nuclear device was used, and the goal wasn't to obliterate the gold, but to make the site so radioactive that it would be more practical and cost effective to simply wait a couple decades for it to cool off rather than attempting to immediately extract it. Thus removing it from circulation for the remainder of the villain's useful lifetime.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I know, I know, we gotta get back to the actual topic, but no, he wasn't known for being height-conscious.  The height thing was because France switched to the metric system, which made Napoleon seem shorter than he really was.  He's known for being short, but that's inaccurate, so I'm not going to count that as a good history joke.

When did I say it was a history joke?

where were we when we left off?

Waiting for me to type up and post a new update since the writeup-in-process was lost due to human induced savefile error.

That sucks. I've done something similar in a work-intensive game. More rolling and writing than research and writing, but still.

and a LOT of explosives to destroy the gold in Knox.

In the movie being referred to, I think the premise was that an especially dirty nuclear device was used, and the goal wasn't merely to obliterate the gold, but to make the site so radioactive that it would be more practical and cost effective to simply wait a couple decades for it to cool off rather than attempting to immediately extract it. Thus removing it from circulation for the remainder of the villain's useful lifetime.

That makes more sense.
A lot of sense, for a Bond movie.

[Thecard]

When did I say it was a history joke?

When you brought Napoleon into this.
Also, I'm probably going to see this tomorrow and realize I'm being an ass or something, but right now I don't really care.  Napoleon had a lot in common with Hitler, and he was of average height.  I don't see what is so hard to understand about this.

[GreatWyrmGold]

When did I say it was a history joke?

When you brought Napoleon into this.
Also, I'm probably going to see this tomorrow and realize I'm being an ass or something, but right now I don't really care.  Napoleon had a lot in common with Hitler, and he was of average height.  I don't see what is so hard to understand about this.

I didn't bring Napoleon into this, Wrex did. And it's possible to joke about historical figures without making historical jokes. And there were many differences between Hitler and Napoleon, not all moral.
See: Napoleon had a fairly successful conquest (until Russia), Hitler didn't (Russia didn't help, but wasn't the sole issue).

Anyways...Wrex, what IS Napoleonic about the PC?

[Thecard]

Nothing, just like other charismatic villains.
To be fair, I added Napoleon, then you asked why he belonged there and made an innacurate claim about one of the bigger dicks of history.  Wrex never actually mentioned Napoleon, that's why I bolded it for him.

[jasonred79]

Heh. Answer to GM's rant.

1. Uh... YES, I interpreted your prologue as "I wonder what career I should pursue... I shall be a supervillian!" as "Bob Mason is doing this as a career ie to make ends meet"
If you had WANTED a protagonist who was out to be the 2nd Captain Killdozer, you could have wrote the prologue as "since you were born, there was something different about you... you never fit in... etc etc... you decide that you will get even with them... with them all! You will become a supervillain!" ... then the players would not be trying to play the character as "oh, let's try to build a safe and secure lifestyle for Bob with evil schemes as a far FAR distant 2nd concern".
If you had wanted a protagonist who would be like Magneto or Hitler or LCS something, you could have written the prologue as "things cannot continue as they are! You will change the world, or die trying!"

But, no.
You wrote the prologue as an average guy, with average ambitions, and SLIGHTLY above average wealth. Have you noticed that your players are playing him with his MAIN CONCERN being financial security?
It's not JUST ME that thinks this, in other words! YOU, the GM, set the AMBITIONS and MOTIVES of the main character as setting out on the path of supervilliany not because of any BELIEFS or CONVICTIONS or EMOTIONS... but purely as a "hmm, other careers not too promising. I shall embark on the supervillian career!"

You say your prologue was about "destiny" and "thinking outside the box"? ... in what way? Throughout this whole thread, NO ONE, not the players, not you, has talked about any dream or destiny or future or ambition  other than "supervillain" and "financial security". And "supervillian" was rather vaguely thrown about.

Fine. Prove me wrong, GM. Then... *WHAT* is the driving force behind the protagonist?




2.  I have no issues with "Ultra Realism".
When the players are given an Ultra Realistic GOAL or TARGET.

The problem occurs when players are given a "Fantasy Task" but are told to operate by "Realistic Rules".

If the average Joe Schmoe could become a successful supervillian in the real world... you'd be seeing a lot of real life supervillians! Point is that it's easier and more common to become a Forbes 100 or a Nobel Prize winner or a Triple Platinum Rock Star than a supervillian.

Try playing a "You will become a Billionaire!" thread set in the real world.... heh. Of course it's achievable! It *HAS* been achieved before, right? ... good luck succeeding without the GM being like Santa Claus though.



3.  Heh. I don't know what I'm talking about? Just did some Googling.
In the movie Goldfinger says his personal stash is 1.5 metric tonnes of gold. He says that the value will go up 10x.
So... which do you think increases his networth more? Stealing a dumptruck of gold (20 tons), or reducing the world gold supply and thus jacking up the price of your 1.5 tons of gold 10x?
... What if you could steal SEVERAL trucks of gold?
Also, what if the price of gold only goes up 2-3 times?

... Also. After somehow pulling off the tremendous task of defeating all the troops in Fort Knox, acquiring the security codes and keys to access the vaults, etc... being able to smuggle a nuclear bomb from China to America... you feel that the simple logistics of "forklifts, dumptrucks and workers" is the major concern here? heh.

...

You mentioned retaliatory action? ... mmm.... so, you're saying that the retaliatory action against someone who steals several tons of gold is going to be more severe than someone who detonates a nuclear device on american soil on a high priority target and irradiated most of your gold stores? ... erm... uh huh...

...

The BEST part of the plan? .... What makes you think the American government would *ANNOUNCE* that their Gold Stores in Fort Knox were irradiated?
...
What's to stop the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States just saying "ummm... just carry on as normal... except that we restrict access from very select people to NO ONE goes inside".
What's Goldfinger supposed to do then? Start a rumor campaign that the gold is still there but irradiated and thus inaccessible? Admit that he did it and demand that they let him into the vault?

[Thecard]

You... You do realize you're the only one who has a problem with the way the GM is running this, right?  Just checking.

And if you blow up Fort Knox, people are going to know.  That's the thing about nuclear weapons, you can't just irradiate the landscape with monstrous force and not have it be noticed.  If the US tried to pretend nothing happened, we'd have a nuclear war incoming.  Because they'd think the government was testing or something.

Oh, and YOU brought up the weight issue.  The GM addressed what you said specifically, and then mentioned there are other problems with robbing Knox.  And if you can't even get enough gold out in time for a getaway, why even bother with the rest of the plan?

[jasonred79]

You... You do realize you're the only one who has a problem with the way the GM is running this, right?  Just checking.

Spoiler: Oh, what, really? (click to show/hide)

 And here I thought that earlier I was somewhat responsible for thread resurrection, the GM said that the game wasn't going the way he wanted, and that he was getting sick and tired of so many people (not just 1 person ie me) complaining to him.

...

Oh, yeah. And despite the thread title "You are a Suburban Supervillian", the protagonist is as close to a supervillian as cup ramen is to a 5 course meal at a 5 star restaurant.
And it doesn't seem very likely that the protagonist will ever actually become a supervillian during the lifetime of this RP.

...

Sure, yup, GM is perfect, brilliant, genius, he has made no mistakes whatsoever, and criticizm is an absolute sin! ... Any failure of the game to progress to actual VILLIANY must be all the fault of the PLAYERS... since this is a multi-player RP, that must mean that the GM could not find any players up to his standards on the bay12 forums. Strange, since the other RPs tend to get quite far.

Oh, wait... I know! Why not blame it all on one player in particular, in this case, ME? Sure, it's all my fault that everything went sideways.

Despite the fact that the thread had more or less gone dormant weeks before I ever laid eyes on it, much less posted here.

Ho hum.

Well, the GM wrote about supervillians requiring
1) Power
2) Vision

So, I suppose in order to achieve this, Bob will have to acquire both of the above. Currently, he has low to average levels of the first, and none of the 2nd...

...

Heh... by the way... One Cute Scene that will probably not actually occur in the story, but which amused me to think of:


Random tough guy in a bar: Beat it, wimp! The girl's coming with me!
Bob: No. No she's not. You might be bigger than me, but I'll beat you down. (goes into ninja pose)
Tough Guy: Heh! You do Kung Fu?  Too bad! I did 2 years of Muay Thai!
Bob: Well, I've done 3 years learning Ninjutsu from a Ninja Master! You're toast!

*One short fight later*

Bob: But... but... ninja's in the comic books don't get beaten up by kickboxing students! ... WHHHHYYYYYYY???

...

Cause, you know, despite the fact that it's glamourous and has a cool name and all that, Ninjutsu in real life is not a very practical martial art?

Karate, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jujitsu, etc would actually be far better choices if Bob is trying to actually obtain self defence skills...

[LordBucket]

*stuff*

From your past couple posts, it looks to me like you're coming into a game that's been running for three months exclusively to complain about it. The rules were established early on and we've already had to deal with people who couldn't accept them. If you don't like the premise of the thread, if you don't like the ruleset we're working with, if you have philosophical or interpretive disagreements with what's going on here, that's fine...you don't have to participate.

Please don't come in just to complain about a game you haven't even been playing in.

Please don't come in to a three month old game trying to reinterpret a threadgame environment that have already been well established.

Moderator Note
I am the thread starter and I have now requested that jasonred79 stop complaining about the premise of the thread, and stop arguing with the GM about the ruleset.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Nothing, just like other charismatic villains.
To be fair, I added Napoleon, then you asked why he belonged there and made an innacurate claim about one of the bigger dicks of history.  Wrex never actually mentioned Napoleon, that's why I bolded it for him.

My bad about attributing.
I think it's fair to say that Napoleon was a better strategist than Hitler, who wouldn't let some of his best weapons (Panzers) be used without his personal orders, fought a war on two fronts at once, declared war on the nation with the second-largest military in the world when it was preoccupied with Japan, etc.

Um...sorry about the derail.

[jaass]

I think you guys should just learn the philosophy behind ninjitsu and learn a lot more effective martial art like Krav Maga.
(Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Ninjitsu has other perks, too.
It's not ideal for combat, but let's try to avoid unarmed combat anyways, neh?

[LordBucket]

despite the fact that it's glamourous and has a cool name and all that, Ninjutsu in real life is not a very practical martial art

learn a lot more effective martial art like Krav Maga.

Discussion of which martial art is best may now take place here.