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Author Topic: A starving conundrum  (Read 1754 times)

darklord92

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A starving conundrum
« on: September 24, 2012, 01:41:43 am »

I simply can't find the problem with my mod. It seems that both ( and probably the third variety) of sergals within my mod starve/dehydrate their babies to death without explanation. The babies seem to change their jobs to "drink" or "eat" but never seem to be fed instead they stay like that till sleep starvation and rarely madness sets in before death leading to tantrum spirals within the fortress.

I have placed the raws here in hope I can gain some help in fixing this conundrum. I didn't want to place this in the modding question trend as it may be much larger than one or two posts of fixing.

Due to the length of posting the raws I have placed each section of the raws in the post just after this one.
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darklord92

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2012, 01:42:39 am »

Spoiler: northern creature file (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: northern entity file (click to show/hide)
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darklord92

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2012, 01:43:02 am »


Spoiler: southern creature file (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: southern entity file (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: feral creature file (click to show/hide)
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Gentlefish

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 05:18:34 am »

PTW. I'm curious as to the problem and may run into it later myself.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 06:26:12 am »

It's a baby bug, I think. The problem probably originates from the mothers not feeding them like dwarves do, presumably due to separation.
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smakemupagus

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 06:54:17 am »

Grasping at straws a bit here, but I've never seen anyone else use the "-" character in raws, i.e. the "en" type hyphen dash, as you do in your caste names. 
   [CASTE:FEMALE-NORTH]
Are you sure that's valid?  If not, and those Caste tokens didn't parse properly, then your [FEMALE] and [MALE] tokens would resolve at creature level I think all your guys would end up being male.

darklord92

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2012, 08:17:43 am »

Originally the sergal raws where together in one file and i had used the North- south- feral- tags as "land marks" within the raws while editing in case i lost my place and was editing the wrong raws. Theraws themselves originally done by cronojuju and ski. I'll try genning a world without the landmarks.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 11:52:21 am »

I'm not sure of why they won't feed them, but babies will never feed themselves (they are considered permanently 'insane').  One semi-fix (not actually solving the issue, but getting around it) would be to cut out the [BABY] tag so that they'll be born as children, which do feed themselves.  Not sure if that's what you want, but it's better than starving.
You might also want to look at the LITTERSIZE.  I'm not sure if it's actually a problem, but if sergals regularly have twins it might lead to burdening the parents more than vanilla creatures are designed to deal with.

Eric Blank

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 11:55:41 am »

The hyphen doesn't seem to cause problems, as both castes definitely appear and function properly. They're reproducing, after all. You must have at least two castes, one with the MALE tag and one with the FEMALE tag, to reproduce. We wouldn't acknowledge that there's a problem with babies being ignored in the first place if they never reproduced. Remember that the CASTE tag is just looking for a string by which to identify the caste it is defining, and that string has no other purpose, so there are probably plenty of possibilities that it'll accept. Still, removing the placeholders will save you quite a few keystrokes when selecting the castes in the future, or headaches when you accidentally use FEMALE instead of FEMALE_NORTH for interaction selections.

As for why your little guys are starving to death, I can't say. I know that the mother in the civilizations SHOULD be picking her infant up and packing it around until adulthood, but for the feral sergals... When I install the mod, I remove the BABY tag, because any creature not strictly a member of your working population (able to take jobs, which pets cannot) will not get the job to pick up infants, because they don't take jobs of any sort, and picking up their baby and keeping them alive is a job. So it's impossible to actually breed feral sergals with the BABY tag because they're CAN_LEARN (or was it INTELLIGENT?) and thus need to eat and drink, yet babies can't provide for themselves, usually.

Actually, you have a [LITTERSIZE:x:y] token. Are we sure they aren't giving birth to multiple offspring, picking up one and ignoring the rest? This is a pretty stupid suggestion, and I don't know if this happens with twins in dwarf fortresses, because I've never had a mother give birth to twins in any fortress where I paid any attention to anything, but it's ever-so-slightly conceivable that the game thinks differently about offspring produced under the guise of [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE] and [LITTERSIZE:x:y] differently. If the [LITTERSIZE:x:y] tag doesn't flag all of the offspring as needing to be taken care of by the mother, your fuzzy-arsed devils will be acting like eagles and letting the weaker (younger) offspring die. I'd start by testing them without that tag, and maybe inserting the [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE] tag. Also observe them more closely when they produce multiple offspring with the littersize tag, and make sure they aren't just picking up one of the offspring

I'm sitting at a computer in my college's lab right now, working under needlessly restrictive operating procedures that involve "don't download or install anything, not even DF.", so I can't do any sort of testing.

[edit]
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smakemupagus

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2012, 11:58:32 am »

It's not just multi litters, I have some multiple litter castes among my Orc fortress, and they care for multiple babies well enough.  (They don't have LITTERSIZE; they just lack MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE, so i've seen twins and triplets, but I haven't noticed them dropping dead "eagle style")
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 12:00:15 pm by smakemupagus »
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darklord92

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2012, 12:47:20 pm »

Progress on testing has proven slow. I have removed the baby tag and left the child tag at the same age. Now i just need one of my southerns to have kids and see what happens.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 07:54:55 pm »

LITTERSIZE has hampered me, nor Kobold Kampers, nor those playing Genesis, which has a dwarven caste or two with LITTERSIZE.
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darklord92

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Re: A starving conundrum
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2012, 08:30:44 pm »

Though i haven't found the cause for starvation of the babies. Bypassing the baby phase by removing the [baby] tag has worked, they now survive past the first year and grow up properly. I'm still lost on what would cause this though.
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