Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Dwarves Don't Use Magic: A Brief Discussion Of the Magic that Wasn't.  (Read 2293 times)

LeDanseWalker

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile

This is all rather disjointed, and just a lot of free-flowing ideas around a common theme. It draws upon a lot of ideas commonly associated with dwarves in the standard fantasy/literary kit. Also, this is my first post, but if there's enough interest or constructive criticism around it, I might make an attempt to sand down the edges and try to make it a little more coherent.

* * *

Dwarf Magic?
Let's get one thing straight - Dwarves don't use magic, they use runes. Magic is just fancy words for silly buggers who don't understand how things truly work. "Magic" is silly junk best left for the useless tree-dances of those pansy elves. And those tall, beardless traders from the human lands who speak of magic? Bah! Humans foolishly combine elven dances, dwarven runes and other nonsense best left buried in tombs, and proudly proclaim they have mastered something they barely understand! Ignore them, for what comes out of their dumb faces is merely the dangerous ramblings of a young race that hasn't lived long enough to remember just how many of their cities were "mysteriously" overrun with demons, had their dead claw up from underfoot, or teleported themselves inside an active volcano! No, none of that will do for Dwarves, who prefer to invest in the comforting permanence of stone, iron, and the ever-dependable rune - an object that was good enough for the elders, thank-you-very-much! Runes (also called runic magic by stuffy, ivory tower human "magi," and penniless, bark-munching elves) have the potential to change the world under the grass in wonderful ways that are subtle, predictable, and practical.

Temple
First a temple must be built. Dwarves are a pragmatic bunch, and while individuals tend to centre their worship around one or two patron deities (and their spheres), clans and fortresses often give thanks to the entire Dwarven pantheon. So, I suppose that's just a fancy way of saying that a temple isn't so much the property of a single almighty power, but rather, the whole lot of 'em - a family reunion, as it were. It'll definitely require stone (no wood - that stuff's only good for lye, beds, or roasting meat), and several statues, or other objects symbolic of the divine. Once a temple's been built, a a rune-elder needs to be appointed. He's a noble, but unlike the rest of his ilk, he actually has a use - he's not some useless tit! He should probably be a patient, pious, and empathic individual, with a good memory for remembering all of the prayers, chants, and rituals the runes require.

Shrine
When you pull up the workshop (um, I mean temple) you'll see a list of regionally specific deities/spheres represented. It'll be a small list at first, probably something like three or so, because let's face it, gods're not going to be waiting with sparky bated and divine breath for some backwater stick in the mud colony. Not at first, anyhow. Greybeards have wagged on about the larger your land-holdings become, the more interest that the Dwarven gods pay to your turf. Eh, who knows. When you pull one of them up, clearly shown on your screen is a brief synopsis of what aspect of dwarven faith, life, divine sphere, or society they represent. For instance, you might see Bandaiderson McHeal, the legendary medic to the gods, Smashula Hammerfist, legendary boxer of the heavens, or Builderson McCraftpants, the divine smith. Eventually, everyone's going to be accounted for, except for Armok - that thing only shows up once you've gotten a capital. Or maybe it doesn't, chant's pretty murky on that.

Shrine II
Anyhow, let's say that you've got a burrow full of clumsy buggers, who, due to their many bumps, bruises, and semi-unintentional limb-misplacements, are always raiding your hospital for soap, thread, and bandages. We pull up Bandaiderson McHeal, and this lets the rune-elder know that we wish to invoke the majesty of the divine healer Himself. The rune-elder sort of serves as a go-between, acting as a messenger to the gods, like an oracle. Or, at least he says he does - otherwise, he has a pretty darned good job for someone who just does a lot of babbling and walking around in deep prayer. So, off he goes, praying and asking Bandaiderson for help, and falls into a deep trance, sometimes muttering something to himself. Once this ends (it may take a season or more) he pops out of it, and immediately knows what Bandaiderson requires of his supplicants. He'll start shouting out what is needed. This is not altogether dissimilar from a Dwarf taken by a "mood," except failure is not disastrous, as I'll get into later. For instance, let's assume that Bandaiderson likes fancypants chains, metal shields, and his favourite colour is purple. The rune-elder might demand that a finely-made rope, a masterwork iron shield, and purple jade be affixed, attached, or added to the statue representing Bandaiderson in the temple. The elder of course, does not do any of this work upon his own, unless he was skilled in said tasks, but does oversee others, presumably anointing the objects (and its crafters) in all manner of prayers, boring religious stories of the past, and heavy amounts of consecrated booze. Once its done, our temple now has a statue to Bandaiderson. Oh, on that note: wiser folks than I have suggest that, in order for the power of the divine to keep working in larger and larger fortresses, these statues may need to be upgraded, or rebuilt, bigger, fancier, more expensive, etc. And one more thing - if the rune-elder's requests can't be met, worry not, the offended deity merely sends him a bad thought for wasting their precious time, but otherwise, once this period of divination ends, and after some time has passed, he can try again. Finally, the temple should grant some intrinsic bonus against night creatures. While it shouldn't automatically expose them, they will likely actively avoid associating with the rune-elder and should likewise refuse to tread upon its sanctified grounds. Then again, maybe I fabricated that last bit, so who knows, hmm?

Faith
So, we've got a temple up and running, and a statue of Bandaiderson built, and with His divine ministrations, Dwarves are liable to regrow their heads right? Wrong. Runes work subtly, through the magesty of the earth, and in the background. What you need to do is set up a zone of influence for Bandaiderson's power to flow. His sacred (favourite) objects must then be carved with his holy symbol, and placed in the area where you want his mojo to be flowed; for instance, Bandaiderson's runes must be etched upon the walls of a room, armour stands in the corners of a dining hall, or the beds, cabinets, and tables within a hospital. Looking at these objects will now indicate that a rune is present. Now, when he's not communing with the divine, the rune-elder is busy in prayer and chanting, which generates an intangible unit of measurement we'll call "faith;" wise dwarves have mentioned that he alone seems to generate, let's say, 10 units of faith, multiplied by his piousness. Even though you have no idea what this unit actually represents, 10 seems pretty good, eh? Not really. But thankfully, he's not alone in the thankless task of saving the souls of an entire fortress. Every other follower of Bandaiderson may stop by a shrine (objects dedicated to the god) or temple to aid in prayer, and this generates an additional 1 unit, multiplied by their own level of devotion. This means that some folk'll be giving you less than 1, and some might even get upwards of 3.

Generating Faith
Not too shabby, but so what? Remember those runes we spoke about earlier? When you look at them, the amount of faith being channelled through the temple will give you an idea of how powerful the divine connection is. For example, when everyone's off doing better things, and the poor, lonely rune-elder is trying to pray for the salvation of the entire fortress himself, only 10 (or so) faith is being generated, which isn't enough to do anything, so most runes will likely "Appear normal." However, when you've managed to find a fairly significant group of people, and have a temple large enough to house them in prayer and ritual, meaning their faith rating is around 20 or 30 or so, the symbol might now indicate that it is "slightly warm to the touch." This of course ranges all the way from what I've just discussed to "brilliantly glowing with divine light," which means that you've probably got a whole whack of faith in the area, probably around 80 units or more. Also, sometimes fairly religious dwarves feel bad, and might up and leave their jobs and careers for a while, praying to offset their previous lack of piety. So, while temples can be a good thing, they do have the downside that religiously-minded dwarves might drop everything to scurry off and ensure their salvation.

Using Faith
Besides sometimes lighting things up, what does faith actually do? Well, it depends on which deity you're praying to. An object (or room) dedicated to Bandaiderson will do progressively more miraculous things, the more people are worshipping him. For instance, greybeards have said that 10 faith might decrease the amount of food that wounded dwarves need; 20 might give a minor boost against infection; 30 would give a minor bump to recovery in the area, and so on. Keep in mind that all lesser boons would apply too, so perhaps faith as a resource is required in an exponential manner, so that getting over fifty or so, for example, would require derailing the entire economy of your dwarfhold, and basically focusing solely upon the task at hand. This would be to offset the clear advantages of being able to curry favour with powerful deities. Legends have said that, in truly pious regions, something like 75 or more, it has been Bandaiderson's will that internal organs, spinal damage, or even limbs grow back good as new! While some have balked at the ability of the devotion of the dwarves to bring about such miracles, keep in mind that the upper tier of what is possible would only be probable if an entire fortress were devoted to said diety, were doing literally nothing else, were housed within a temple worth hundreds of thousands of gold pieces, and were focused almost entirely upon prayer and meditation. Likewise, deities of war and knowledge may speed up the prowess and skill of your warriors; gods of art and creation might put a dent in the time it takes to craft, smith, and forge; whereas finally, divine beings in charge of the family and the home might give a boost to the general happiness of the population, or make food tastier and healthier, meaning less needs to be eaten.

Keeping the Faith
But, just as everything grows, so too does your temple's capacity need to grow. As more migrants bring their faiths with them, the rune-elder is contacted through dreams and trances by otherworldly agents, and then sets out to expand the temple accordingly. Also, gods are fickle, so there is a chance that during one of his trances, instead of learning anything new or wonderful about the universe, the deity may unsubtly request that their statue or holy object be pimped out to an even better level than it currently is. Too, the rooms and zones so blessed need to be upgraded, with ever more intricate runes, etchings, offerings and gifts to the divine. There's probably also an upper limit to amount of active areas you can be directing faith into. Or at least, there should be, because otherwise, that'd be crazypants man!

Different Faiths
Eventually, in the largest of cities, the entire Dwarven pantheon may be housed and worshiped. But, keep in mind that someone worshiping one deity isn't going to power the faith of another; if everyone in your warren is enthralled with a deity of healing, the faith being generated for other gods will be significantly less. Of course, the rune-elder applies all faith that he generates equally and fully to each worshipful statue, so, you'll be able to access at least the base-line miracles of really any deity represented, even in a fortress with relatively few worshipers of a certain god.

Conclusion
So, there you have it. It took a while, but as you can see, our runes are a heck of a lot more practical than the "accidentally blow-up-the-village" of those upstart humans, or the pointless tree dances of the elves. I've also heard rumours of the darker members of the Dwarven pantheon, or even demons masquerading as deities can be worshiped, for those of you who are interested in the spookier side of things, but don't want to fiddle with all of that dangerous rot humans call necromancy. Anyhow, thanks for reading, and I appreciate any comments or questions you may have.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 12:19:35 pm by LeDanseWalker »
Logged

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarves Don't Use Magic: A Brief Discussion Of the Magic that Wasn't.
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2012, 02:50:51 pm »

So, this is another thread suggesting the way magic "should" be added to DF? Geez, I think I know what the second "Let's Discuss" thread will be...
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Deimos56

  • Bay Watcher
  • [PREFSTRING: unicorpion]
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarves Don't Use Magic: A Brief Discussion Of the Magic that Wasn't.
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 05:01:27 pm »

I'd prefer flavors of magic not being specifically tied to a given race. Maybe they could have an affinity for a given 'kind' of magic (Elves being better at druidic stuff and being more likely to learn it, et cetera), but have given civilizations learn and develop what kinds of magic they use of their own accord.
Logged
I'm curious what the barely conscious ai wrote about.
Well that went better than expected.  He went nuts and punched a rabbit to death, then the dogs and the whole dining hall ripped him to shreds.

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarves Don't Use Magic: A Brief Discussion Of the Magic that Wasn't.
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 05:17:24 pm »

Agreed. Also, civs should learn magic from other civs.
If elven magic is letting elves steamroll dwarves, dwarves would adopt elven magic. If two human nations have different types of magic, they would swap notes in peacetime and perhaps some Jacks-Of-Both-Schools would arise. Stuff like that.
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Manveru Taurënér

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarves Don't Use Magic: A Brief Discussion Of the Magic that Wasn't.
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 05:29:32 pm »

Agreed. Also, civs should learn magic from other civs.
If elven magic is letting elves steamroll dwarves, dwarves would adopt elven magic. If two human nations have different types of magic, they would swap notes in peacetime and perhaps some Jacks-Of-Both-Schools would arise. Stuff like that.

Doesn't really feel right to have dwarves learn druidic magic though, unless they were some kind of nature-loving outcasts that other dwarves want nothing to do with. I also doubt any elf would ever willingly give up their most guarded secrets to a dwarf :S

As for the OP, I don't think magic should be tied to the gods that way, and instead have magic and divine favors be something seperate. Priests asking the gods for miracles or divine intervention shouldn't be something reliable imo, but rather a surprise benefit of sort you'd get every now and then if your settlement was pious enough and the god/gods in question was in a good mood. The priests themselves though should have no magical affinity on their own. Magic on the other hand shouldn't be dependant on the gods in its use, apart from the original secrets being gifted by them. Unlike divine magic it'd be something you summon from within using your own skill in the arcane arts. This is all ofc entirely based on everyone's particular taste, and completely subjective, but that's my view on how the basis of magic should work anyhow :>
Logged

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarves Don't Use Magic: A Brief Discussion Of the Magic that Wasn't.
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2012, 05:44:03 pm »

If elven magic is letting elves steamroll dwarves,
It's not an everyworld thing, just when elven magic is what's giving them the edge and almost allowing them to kill all dwarves. Besides, who needs treants and dire bears when you can have tower-capants and giant cave spiders?
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Deimos56

  • Bay Watcher
  • [PREFSTRING: unicorpion]
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarves Don't Use Magic: A Brief Discussion Of the Magic that Wasn't.
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2012, 12:25:11 am »

Agreed. Also, civs should learn magic from other civs.
If elven magic is letting elves steamroll dwarves, dwarves would adopt elven magic. If two human nations have different types of magic, they would swap notes in peacetime and perhaps some Jacks-Of-Both-Schools would arise. Stuff like that.

Doesn't really feel right to have dwarves learn druidic magic though, unless they were some kind of nature-loving outcasts that other dwarves want nothing to do with. I also doubt any elf would ever willingly give up their most guarded secrets to a dwarf :S
Perhaps magic could be flavored by the race? Druidic Dwarves might work with mushrooms and fungi instead of trees and plants, for instance?
Logged
I'm curious what the barely conscious ai wrote about.
Well that went better than expected.  He went nuts and punched a rabbit to death, then the dogs and the whole dining hall ripped him to shreds.

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarves Don't Use Magic: A Brief Discussion Of the Magic that Wasn't.
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2012, 07:00:34 am »

I also suggested that...What else would tower-capants be?
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.