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Author Topic: Peat farming  (Read 7492 times)

Jarod

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Peat farming
« on: September 20, 2012, 05:32:41 am »

Perhaps Toady could implement some form of peat farming in swampy or wetland biomes as a source of fuel and fertiliser? It can burn easily and for a long time, smouldering over many days if lit on fire by say a dragon or some other fire breathing creature. It also says on the wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat#Water_filtration) that it can be used to filtrate water so perhaps contaminated water that gets run through peat blocks is purified and usable again?
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Silverionmox

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2012, 10:19:31 am »

Peat grows so slowly, that it's practically a fossil fuel. Otherwise yes, peat needs more love.
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Jarod

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2012, 06:32:39 pm »

Perhaps you have to find it on a map then? You can't make it, and it covers like 1 - 2 z levels
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nanomage

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 03:16:25 am »

I think processed peat might be used as fuel (in larger quantites then coal) to power furnaces and forges, but I think it cannot replace coal as a reducing agent in smelting reactions. Also, processing (drying or something) peat should have some drawback, so that it's not insta-infinite fuel when you embark upon a layer of peat.
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Niccolo

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 07:21:12 am »

Peat doesn't burn hot enough to be used for smelting, unfortunately... Around the time that Toady introduces the need to heat your fortresses I imagine peat will be a wonderful source of heating and insulation.
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lwCoyote

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2012, 04:03:45 pm »

Peat doesn't burn hot enough to be used for smelting, unfortunately... Around the time that Toady introduces the need to heat your fortresses I imagine peat will be a wonderful source of heating and insulation.

Similarly, animal dung (herbivore that is) could be used for heating purposes as well. Given the depth of the game, Im honestly surprised its not already in there, heh.
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Avo

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2012, 09:27:02 pm »

Peat doesn't burn hot enough to be used for smelting, unfortunately... Around the time that Toady introduces the need to heat your fortresses I imagine peat will be a wonderful source of heating and insulation.

Similarly, animal dung (herbivore that is) could be used for heating purposes as well. Given the depth of the game, Im honestly surprised its not already in there, heh.
I've heard around that toady has specifically stated that he doesn't want Urine/feces. I'm not sure if that extends to animals or not, but that could be why. The other possible reason is that animal droppings don't burn hot enough to smelt any of the metals we use in dwarf fortress and there's nothing else that currently uses fuel yet.
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Silverionmox

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2012, 06:40:01 pm »

I've heard around that toady has specifically stated that he doesn't want Urine/feces. I'm not sure if that extends to animals or not, but that could be why. The other possible reason is that animal droppings don't burn hot enough to smelt any of the metals we use in dwarf fortress and there's nothing else that currently uses fuel yet.
Toady has carefully not taken a position in the feces debate. I've seen people claim that he did many times, but none could refer me to an actual place where he took one.

Great link on the subject:
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/09/peat-and-coal-fossil-fuels-in-pre-industrial-times.html

They mention both that forging with peat was possible and that smelting wasn't possible with it, or at least not done.
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Niccolo

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 03:25:48 am »

I've heard around that toady has specifically stated that he doesn't want Urine/feces. I'm not sure if that extends to animals or not, but that could be why. The other possible reason is that animal droppings don't burn hot enough to smelt any of the metals we use in dwarf fortress and there's nothing else that currently uses fuel yet.
Toady has carefully not taken a position in the feces debate. I've seen people claim that he did many times, but none could refer me to an actual place where he took one.

I can offer you some actual places! The quote is from a general set of frequently asked questions, covering stuff from multithreading to graphics. It also includes a link to a Q&A recording with Toady at the bottom. As it notes, Toady is not personally against it - it's an integral reason for the existence of sewers. However... the bad press may be nasty.

(Also, we should probably move on from discussing this - if it goes for /too/ long the threads tend to get locked or way too derailed)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But anyway - it's as I thought - peat just doesn't burn hot enough for smelting. However, it works fantastically for internal heating, which I suspect will rock up in the next decade or so. Burning peat apparently smells rather nice, too... or at least fragrant. I wouldn't know, since the amount of peat in Australia would probably be measured in units of "What the hell is peat?"

I could see peat being used as a source for stone material, too - if the peat is allowed to dry out properly it makes a good building material. Carving, not so much - but sod houses are a real thing and small peasant villages near bogs would certainly use it.
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What's wrong with using magma? That's almost always the easiest method.
I have issues channeling it properly to do that method. I end up flooding the fortress with magma.
Check out my RtD!

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 06:41:10 am »

The note about peat being used for building but not carving reminds me of clay. Have peat gathered like clay and our problems are solved.
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nanomage

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 08:51:10 am »

The note about peat being used for building but not carving reminds me of clay. Have peat gathered like clay and our problems are solved.
>implying gathering infinite clay from a tile is not a problem
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Silverionmox

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 11:06:28 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I could see peat being used as a source for stone material, too - if the peat is allowed to dry out properly it makes a good building material. Carving, not so much - but sod houses are a real thing and small peasant villages near bogs would certainly use it.
Sod is not peat: sod refers to the part of the ground that is held together by grassroots, while peat are the died off remains of the sphagnum moss, which needs a moist area to grow... Peat crumbles and falls apart when it dries.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 10:22:15 am by Silverionmox »
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 02:56:09 pm »

The note about peat being used for building but not carving reminds me of clay. Have peat gathered like clay and our problems are solved.
>implying gathering infinite clay from a tile is not a problem
No, implying it's a problem that will eventually be solved.

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Niccolo

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2012, 06:01:43 pm »

Sod is not peat: sod refers to the part of the ground that is held together by grassroots, while peat are the died of remains of the sphagnum moss, which needs a moist area to grow... Peat crumbles and falls apart when it dries.

My bad - I thought they were the same thing. Probably better not to build a wall out of it, then.
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What's wrong with using magma? That's almost always the easiest method.
I have issues channeling it properly to do that method. I end up flooding the fortress with magma.
Check out my RtD!

Silverionmox

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Re: Peat farming
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2012, 10:24:47 am »

Sod is not peat: sod refers to the part of the ground that is held together by grassroots, while peat are the died of remains of the sphagnum moss, which needs a moist area to grow... Peat crumbles and falls apart when it dries.

My bad - I thought they were the same thing. Probably better not to build a wall out of it, then.

Sod is apparently called turf in the wikipedia article, and turf is Dutch for peat... Probably they're confused because the English understood the word for peat as the word for the slab of soil. Sod and peat are indeed extracted in roughly the same way.
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