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[sneakey pete]

Those aren't exactly fair comparisons. at all. Someone else can elaborate why if they want. Not to mention the whole marginalized-ness part of it all And the non acceptance being the main motivator.

[Haspen]

From personal life experience I can tell you, Kaijyuu, that your parents will accept you sooner or later.

Even if at the beginning things will be harsh and rough for you and you might feel very, very bad, they will understand that they won't change you.
It takes time - took one year for my mother, for example, to accept me (and let's not speak about the period before that moment).

My hugs and support to you

[kidhedera]

Wow LordBucket, that's not only harsh, but way off the mark.

Firstly, those people to whom it is appropriate to reveal one's sexual preferences to are not always accepting. I've seen dozens of 'How do I tell my girlfriend I like anal?' posts from straight men to advice columnists over the years. Not to mention the hushed whispers in which straight women admit they *like* sucking cock to their dearest friends in those moments of drunken sharing. So there is clearly some angst about sexuality even from hets - its not just The Gays being inappropriately Sharey.

The reason queers and homo's have to come out to their friends and family is to avoid horribly awkward moments later. Also the hurt that can ensue when your dear friends or beloved family members meet your same-sex partner and go 'WHAT YOU ARE GAY? WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME? ALSO DIDN'T YOU DATE OPPOSITE-SEX EX? WAS THAT FAKE?' and then the awkward 'actually I'm bi / just coming out / I loved them but they didn't make my pink bits squishy enough' and the 'No I do love and trust you I just never mentioned this part of my life cos its never come up before' etc has to be done in front of NEW PARTNER. Trust me, those situations cause *WAY* more drama than a coming out period does.

Also, there are very few heterophobes around. Homophobes however are insidious and tend to pop up where least expected, so its much more important to control the circumstances under which folk find out one is queer in order to ensure personal safety, and the emotional comfort of all involved.

Anyway, yes things are getting better for queers so coming out is safer and easier than ever, but until we live in a post-gender, post-sexuality society where we love peoples fluffy inner aura and don't have bodies anymore, I imagine that issues of explaining ones sexuality and/or gender to their nearest and dearest are going to remain a frequent topic for online discussion.

[kaijyuu]

Blaarg. I think my parents are hiding things from me. Ironic reversal, here.

They seem to talk to others about me more than they talk to me about me. They've kept me in the closet (outside of very immediate family) so far, but lately I've been approached by a lot of third parties who say that my parents have talked to them and are concerned about me, or how they're praising me as a "good kid," and stuff like that. The church they go to has a "testimony meeting" event every month where any audience member can hop up to the podium and talk, and my father apparently had a 10 minute emotional speech about me, both praising me and saying I should be "prayed for". I never heard about it until our housekeeper came in and included it in her local gossip.

I tried (and failed) to corner my dad into talking to me tonight, but all he responded to my asking what he thought about me was "We love you." That's nice, Dad, but I wanted to hear the thoughts that made you give a 10 minute speech


I don't know how much I should pressure them. On one hand, some confiding in others is probably rather healthy for them and natural while they figure things out. On the other hand, if they're still figuring things out, I want to be involved. On the third (?) hand, I don't want to try and force anything else it might backfire.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

They're regressing in a moral panic. Be careful, kaijyuu. If they're religion whips them into enough of a frenzy they could do something crazy.

[kidhedera]

You might want to gently remind them that while you appreciate their concern, you are an adult and would like them to talk directly to you, instead of the church if they are worried about you.

I get what you mean about wanting them to have support and a sounding board for their concerns, but at the same time it could be detrimental both for you and them if their support network is too much of a concern troll. (For example, when I was a teen my mothers church gave our family lots of 'ex-gay biographies' about the tragic lives of closeted christians. Scared the bejibbers out of both of us, and I narrowly avoided a trip to Mercy Ministries. Not as helpful as the church intended no doubt).

Best of luck. Stay safe, and make sure you have a support network too.

[Korbac]

They're regressing in a moral panic. Be careful, kaijyuu. If they're religion whips them into enough of a frenzy they could do something crazy.

MSH, you seem to be a rather big pessimist. It can be difficult sometimes even for non - religious families to cope with things like this happening, and perhaps Kai's dad just wanted to voice himself to a support group.

Kai, if you really feel a burning urge to tell your friends, I guess you could, but as long as you're not trying to hide it any more, it should gradually come out in the wash.

You may have a tough few weeks / months ahead, but I'm sure everything will work out fine in the end.

Jon.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

MSH, you seem to be a rather big pessimist. It can be difficult sometimes even for non - religious families to cope with things like this happening, and perhaps Kai's dad just wanted to voice himself to a support group.

Religion makes people do crazy things, Korbac. Things they would otherwise never consider.

I don't think I've ever encountered a situation where a non-religious family took issue with homosexuality. It's an issue almost entirely fueled by religion. The only non-religious objection to homosexuality I've ever heard is from the evolutionary psychologists.

[scriver]

Demonstratively wrong, MSH. If your theory was right, there would be next to no anti-honor sentiment in Scandinavia. But, even though it's less than in the US, there still is.

[Thecard]

MSH, you seem to be a rather big pessimist. It can be difficult sometimes even for non - religious families to cope with things like this happening, and perhaps Kai's dad just wanted to voice himself to a support group.

Religion makes people do crazy things, Korbac. Things they would otherwise never consider.

I don't think I've ever encountered a situation where a non-religious family took issue with homosexuality. It's an issue almost entirely fueled by religion. The only non-religious objection to homosexuality I've ever heard is from the evolutionary psychologists.

Of there are some people who just don't believe it's natural, and I've known some of those people myself.  And religion doesn't make someone angry.  Don't think that homosexuals can't be good Christians, or the other way around.  And I am praying for you, Kai.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Demonstratively wrong, MSH. If your theory was right, there would be next to no anti-honor sentiment in Scandinavia. But, even though it's less than in the US, there still is.

What's an anti-honor sentiment?

Of there are some people who just don't believe it's natural, and I've known some of those people myself.

In my experience the "unnatural!" crowd are religious more often than not. After all, "natural" is a perception that generally requires believing in a world with some manner of natural intent, i.e. as proscribed by a dieity.

And religion doesn't make someone angry.

Right, all the firebrand preachers condemning the "homosexual menace" are just so calm and rational. Or condemning all the other aspects of modern society that they condemn.

Don't think that homosexuals can't be good Christians, or the other way around.

I wouldn't say that there's any metric on being a good or bad Christian.

[scriver]

Demonstratively wrong, MSH. If your theory was right, there would be next to no anti-honor sentiment in Scandinavia. But, even though it's less than in the US, there still is.

What's an anti-honor sentiment?
/quote]

It's what my cellphone autocorrect changes "anti-homo" sentiment to.

[kaijyuu]

I appreciate the support from everyone, even those whom I disagree with (so thank you for the prayers, Thecard, even though I can only appreciate the sentiment). But please, take any religion debate elsewhere. There are a couple threads in GD that would reasonably suffice.

Kai, if you really feel a burning urge to tell your friends, I guess you could, but as long as you're not trying to hide it any more, it should gradually come out in the wash.

Friends?

Well I do have a d&d buddy, and if he comes up with me to Seattle while I move as he's displayed interest in doing, I'll inform him of the date I have set up with someone. Otherwise... eh. If the topic comes up.

(I do have some very close online friends but they all already know. Even the not so close friends know; I shouted "I'm gay!" to my WoW guild and quickly logged off, just to make them go wtf )


I was going to force a real talk out of my family tonight, but I've had a rough day and I don't think I'm quite emotionally stable enough for it. I might lash out in anger or something when I need to remain calm. Definitely in the next few days though, I'm going to start asking them questions, because simply opening up hasn't really improved communication.

[Zorbeltuss]

Still looking for opportunities to come out to other people in meatspace without it being awkward. I mean, I can randomly shout "I'M GAY" to the online communities I'm in and it's rather amusing, but I don't have the guts to do it in real life.

It does depend on what people are talking about, but starters here's some examples (for the examples I'm assuming that you're a bi man (I don't know if you're a man but you said you were bi in the beginning of the thread)):
If a girl  says, that guy is good looking, if you agree say so, if not say who'd you prefer.
If a guy wonders why why one or many girls thinks another guy is good looking, give a list of good features of the guy, if he is interested in the girl, give him a list of features the are as good looking or more of him, if he is just curious about why people are interested you can say if you think he's good looking or if you'd prefer someone else, it is not the end of the world if you read the guy wrong about this, he won't blame you for liking the guy, if he wants a relationship with the girl however it might improve his mood to know a bit about what looks good about him though.

If you really are bi however, make that somewhat clear, say which guys and which girls are about equally pretty, beautiful or handsome once in a while, in reversed gender roles of the previous examples, still comment. Why am I saying this? Because I know how much it can hurt when you're interested in someone relatively close who thinks you're gay/straight and therefore doesn't take in to consideration that you might be interested in them. This is also why I dislike that people in sweden often say that their bi just because it is easier to come out as, it kind of messes things up for people who are living the reality of being bi, just as much as being bi and saying you're gay can lead to an overly big amount of straight people wanting to hook up with people who are explicitly gay.

It might also be a good time to get a few meatspace friends, internet friends while good can't as easily be there for you when you have difficulties with your family.

Never did come out to my family myself, not that they wouldn't accept it, I've just have had so much troubles with my family to think that they do not have the right knowing me in any way.

/Zorbeltuss

[kaijyuu]

I am a man, and I'm into men and occasionally women. Yeah, I'll make sure people know I'm bi and not just gay. While I probably won't be looking for women, I'd be open to one approaching me (the type of women I'm interested in would be the type to take the initiative and approach me, rather than the other way around, anyway).

As for getting more meatspace friends, that's one of my goals in moving. I have almost no friends here because I have almost no one to relate to (well that and pushing everyone I knew away; being depressed does that). A new place with new people to make a new start would be fucking awesome. Dammit why is it 2 months away