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[Domitian]

So i've just come back to DF after a few months away (travelling on business) and apparently there have been some massive changes to hauling. I know i'm last to the party and everyone knows this and the problems (or features as some say  with this.

So my main question is: Has there been any word on if fixes/changes are planned for the issues with hauling jobs (like requiring 2-3 more trips due to having to haul barrels/bins TO the item to be hauled? Or worse yet the farming procedures with barrels now)

The part of DF i always liked the least (and avoided the most) is setting up all the stockpiles, etc. Before this could be done in 10-15 minutes once the core of my fort was dug out and then pretty much ignored for the rest of the game... now following people's suggestions will take twice as long as i need to put a bunch more stockpiles, and then figure out linking stockpiles and such.

[Particleman]

Generally, hauling now works better. A dwarf will grab a bin and take it to the crafting workshop, and fill it up before returning it to the stockpile- one trip instead of fifty. I have half as many hauling jobs as I used to before the change. Yes, food hauling is kind of ass right now, though, and like a lot of other things in the game it's still in the early stages and needs refinement.

[Hans Lemurson]

Problems arise though when an item in a bin being taken for loading is needed by another dwarf.  A carried item is not available for usage.  Be prepared for unexpected job cancellations.

[Domitian]

Ya, i started to see that yesterday and, between the massive inefficiencies in farming and gathering, I ended up shutting the game down for now. Building, exploring and dealing with the typical dwarven "events" that take place were what i find so amazing about this game ... the micromanagement of stockpiles were something i just put up with for a few minutes to get on with the game.

The major question for me is: is this considered a major problem that they (Toady) are working to fix ASAP, or is this either too large to fix quickly, or considered minor for most people and will therefore not get fixed for quite a while? I'm sure noone knows for sure, but I am hoping someone who is a regular on the boards may have seen something.

Thanks!

[Northen_Wolf]

Advice that I got:
1) Designate two separate piles - one near/next to farm, one in kitchen-area/dining area/wherever.

set the farm pile to have max 0 barrels and accept only the farm products that the farm products
Set the kitchen pile to only accept from links.
Set the farm pile to give to the kitchen pile.

Also, have only 1 farmer.

This makes your farmer to gather produce raw (without using bin/barrel) and put it onto the farm pile, that does not have any barrels. Later, the produce will be moved from farm pile to kitchen pile by your dwarves (kitchen pile can have barrels, same barrels are not being used to harvest new produce - as long as there're enough free spots in the farm pile). This solves A LOT of error messages. same method can be used with other things as well, for an example rope reed or even crafts.

Never mind, re-read the OP.

[Dwarfler]

I'm sure noone knows for sure, but I am hoping someone who is a regular on the boards may have seen something.

As you say, no one knows for sure.  However, I would not expect a fix anytime soon.  This version has been out for several months already, if it was considered a critical bug it would have already been addressed.  Plus, there is a simple workaround that mitigates the problem.  So basically, it's a mildly inconvenient idiosyncrasy.  These are the building blocks of Dwarf Fortress.

[kabaal86]

I'm sure noone knows for sure, but I am hoping someone who is a regular on the boards may have seen something.

As you say, no one knows for sure.  However, I would not expect a fix anytime soon.  This version has been out for several months already, if it was considered a critical bug it would have already been addressed.  Plus, there is a simple workaround that mitigates the problem.  So basically, it's a mildly inconvenient idiosyncrasy.  These are the building blocks of Dwarf Fortress.

Whats the workaround?

[Domitian]

I'm sure noone knows for sure, but I am hoping someone who is a regular on the boards may have seen something.

As you say, no one knows for sure.  However, I would not expect a fix anytime soon.  This version has been out for several months already, if it was considered a critical bug it would have already been addressed.  Plus, there is a simple workaround that mitigates the problem.  So basically, it's a mildly inconvenient idiosyncrasy.  These are the building blocks of Dwarf Fortress.

Whats the workaround?

I would like to know as well. The only workarounds i've seen involve a ton of linked stockpiles and i unfortunately dont have the patience to get that set up (and then debugged when i inevitably set it up incorrectly).

[Trif]

The workaround is: don't allow barrels at the seed stockpile. That should severely reduce the cancellation messages.

And don't worry too much about linking your stockpiles. If you want to, you can use stockpiles just like before the hauling updates. Linking is just an extension to allow more control about the materials - it basically replaces the inconveniences of rebuilding workshops close to the correct stockpiles or forbidding materials from time to time.
Linking can be useful if you like micromanaging to that level, but it's not required to use workshops.

[greycat]

The workaround is: don't allow barrels at the seed stockpile. That should severely reduce the cancellation messages.

Well, that's part of it certainly.  But the "problem" is quite a bit more systemic than that.  0.34.08+ is really a major change and requires redesign of a significant part of your fortress to adapt.  If a given player really doesn't enjoy the micromanagement of workflow, then I can see how that'll be a huge source of frustration.

The problem has at least 3 parts:

• Stone is too heavy to move efficiently by hand.  Therefore you need small, dedicated stone stockpiles linked to nearby stone-consuming workshops, and wheelbarrows.  No more dumping of stone.
• A lot of furniture is also too heavy to move around by hand, and should be wheelbarrowed.  This means setting up type-specific furniture stockpiles (either temporary or permanent) near the place you expect to be building the furniture, with wheelbarrows.
• Goods that can be consolidated into containers (bins, barrels) will be gathered en masse, whether you want it or not.  In many cases, this is a great new feature -- a single dwarf can gather up all the mugs you made, in one trip, instead of having 27 haulers converging on the craft shop at once.  But this feature has drawbacks, namely:

• Heavy objects like gold bars, when stored 5 to a bin, result in a bin that's too heavy to move efficiently.  Workaround  1: disallow bins in stockpiles of this type.  Workaround 2: have multiple stockpiles of this type, linked.  The first stockpile takes from anywhere and does not allow bins.  Dwarves put stuff there by hand.  The second stockpile only takes from the first stockpile, and allows bins.  Dwarves will drag heavy bins from stockpile #2 to stockpile #1 and back, so they should be physically close.
• High-demand objects like seeds may be out of service while their container is being hauled around the fortress to collect additional contents.  Workaround 1: disallow barrels in seed stockpiles.  This reduces the cancellation spam, but will not eliminate it (bags are still used as seed containers and are subject to this issue; barrels compound the problem).  It means you need a slightly larger seed stockpile as well.  Workaround 2: for non-seed stockpiles, such as cloth/thread stockpiles that get processed by multiple workshops, have a very large amount of cloth/thread available so that when one bin is taken out for gathering, others are available to process.  Workaround 3: semi- or fully-automatic minecart quantum stockpiling of these resources.
  

[Domitian]

Blargh. All of that is way more complicated than i was hoping for. I get that Toady is always trying to make more realistic systems ... but sometimes realism seems too much like "work". 

I miss my super-dwarves!