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Author Topic: If we got FTL you would...  (Read 11745 times)

martinuzz

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #105 on: November 30, 2012, 05:11:35 pm »

I'd use the FTL drive's reverse to shrink planets to the size of a grain of flour, while instantaneously traveling to all existing planets in the universe. Once I've got them all shrunken down, including our world, I'll bake bread from the planetflour, and still be in time to eat all planets for breakfast, before the end of the world.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #106 on: November 30, 2012, 05:14:46 pm »

What...is imaginary time?

What does it do? How does it work?
When squared, it gives negative time.
This... This would do horrible, unspeakable things to maths.

Techhead

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #107 on: November 30, 2012, 05:26:49 pm »

Imaginary Time, according to Wikipedia.

My personal (non-physicist) take on the matter uses quarternions*, would be difficult to explain, and is probably wrong. Explanation is available on request, but only if someone wants to hear it.

*Note: I am not liable if you read about Quarternions and break your brain.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2012, 06:36:22 pm »

Would it be possible to use FTL drives as WMDs?

What I mean is using E=mc² to it's maximum potential. Even flinging bullets the size of cars at FTL speeds should destroy star systems, if I got it correct; or at least, cause some serious hurting to a planet of at least Earth's scale; or maybe collapse a star by sheer force of impact.

Not to mention, strap a smaller craft to a larger craft, and then go full-burn, with the warp drive pretty much latched onto a plate of the larger craft; no more plate... and everything else inside the larger craft. Think of it like having the Corellian Corvette parked/towing the bridge of a Star Destroyer, and then having that sucker go full-burn at point-blank.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 06:43:55 pm by Itnetlolor »
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TheBronzePickle

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #109 on: November 30, 2012, 06:46:31 pm »

If the whole 'approaching light speed results in approaching infinite mass' thing is actually correct (and it seems to be), a true-FTL particle would basically have more than infinite mass. Basically, if it hit something, it would transfer greater than infinite energy to whatever it hit. Imagine that every atom in the universe is a nuclear bomb, and they're all daisy-chained together.
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TheZoomZoll

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #110 on: December 01, 2012, 02:15:02 am »

Oh c'mon! He put all that effort into it, least you could do is read it. Or just not tl;dr.

...Although to tl;dr it was about the consequences of sending information faster than the speed of light.

When you let go of a spring - it stays suspended in the air until the tip gets the information that the forces exerted on it are unbalanced, and begins falling. When the falling sections hit the still sections, the still ones find out they're supposed to be falling, and oblige so.

Except with this, it'd be about what you'd be seeing with light and "FTL" warp drives.

And that; that, it is not something you can tl;dr.

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DJ

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #111 on: December 01, 2012, 01:07:01 pm »

Would it be possible to use FTL drives as WMDs?

What I mean is using E=mc² to it's maximum potential. Even flinging bullets the size of cars at FTL speeds should destroy star systems, if I got it correct; or at least, cause some serious hurting to a planet of at least Earth's scale; or maybe collapse a star by sheer force of impact.
Actually, no. FTL works via physics loopholes, not by imparting actual kinetic energy to the ship. If a ship was stationary in it's warp bubble I imagine it would be stationary in normal space too if the bubble suddenly vanished.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #112 on: December 01, 2012, 01:18:08 pm »

Would it be possible to use FTL drives as WMDs?

What I mean is using E=mc² to it's maximum potential. Even flinging bullets the size of cars at FTL speeds should destroy star systems, if I got it correct; or at least, cause some serious hurting to a planet of at least Earth's scale; or maybe collapse a star by sheer force of impact.
Actually, no. FTL works via physics loopholes, not by imparting actual kinetic energy to the ship. If a ship was stationary in it's warp bubble I imagine it would be stationary in normal space too if the bubble suddenly vanished.
Would that also bypass temporal physics? What I mean is, despite traveling light speeds, if you're stationary inside a bubble that allows you to travel FTL, you won't suffer the consequence of traveling at ludicrous time speeds? 1 year of "real time" travel (perceived within the ship) = hundreds of real time years passing (across the universe). After all, it would effectively be a temporal shield as well as a bubble in the sea of space itself.

At least, I think, if kinetic FTL would accelerate time as well, then would accelerating around you render you immune to the effects? Man, it would suck being a space fly hitting that "windshield"; rapidly aging on contact, provided they survive the initial impact of kinetic force. There could also be an off-chance (thinking outside the box here) that they could be flung across space-time instead of rapid aging/de-aging (depending on where on the shield they got hit); or maybe both, with a chance of being exploded (physically and temporally) by force of impact.

So to say, if the DeLorean hit you while it was traveling through time, then how far across the timeline will you get flung, and at what kinetic and temporal speeds will you be flung/exploded from the impact of the car hitting you? I mean, what if before the flux capacitor activates, the DeLorean (or it's train variant of BTTF3) hits a deer, or another (car/flying car/train/flying train/passenger aircraft) just as it begins travel through time. What happens to the deer; not to mention, the DeLorean and it's passengers post-impact? Can we explain what happened to that crime/accident scene? Poor victim would turn into the buckshot of a temporal space-time shotgun, with the time machine/FTL craft as the bullet case/propellant that propels it. Now a real brain-melter would be, what if the DeLorean crashes into a wall or heavier object (to the point of flinging the passengers out of the car) just as the Flux Capacitor activates?

At least, if we also consider the properties of the time machine as featured in Bill & Ted, which is an offshoot of the TARDIS; being a phone box at least, and able to change it's form, as seen in the beginning of the movie; and how Napoleon fell into the space-time-vortex chasing after them from his Era falling into the Present. You can probably say that he only kept up because he was drafting the time machine like cars in a NASCAR/Supercar race (albeit, unintentionally; but he was close enough, and temporally aerodynamic enough (being a rather *dense* historical figure) to keep up at a temporal physics level (chrono-drafting); at least, based on the chrono-density/aerodynamics of Bill & Ted, seeing how important they are to the timeline as well, as they too are historical figures and were able to get away with abusing timelines to save the other historical figures from the police station by bending time-space like a pretzel by just thinking about an idea, and willing themselves to commit to it in the future.). What happens then?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 01:54:55 pm by Itnetlolor »
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Sergius

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #113 on: December 01, 2012, 01:20:52 pm »

If a particle going at lightspeed has infinite energy, it means you had to pump infinite energy in it to get it to lightspeed.

If you use a "loophole" to spend less energy, the particle has less energy.

Pretty simple really. You can't get energy out of nowhere. And if you use a "hyperspace" trick to get infinite or near infinite energy from some other dimension or whatever, well, what's stopping you just using that energy in a weapon?
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Starver

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #114 on: December 01, 2012, 02:02:37 pm »

Even flinging bullets the size of cars at FTL speeds should destroy star systems, if I got it correct;

Oooh, do I have the opportunity to link another XKCD thing?

(Well, it means I'm not waffling on again!)
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MonkeyHead

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #115 on: December 01, 2012, 03:19:03 pm »

Is it too crude to apply the time travellers paradox to the whole FTL thing?

If somewhere in the milky way, one of the many hundred currently active intelligent civs (as predicted by the Drake equation) manages FTL, its reasonable to assume they would start using it to spead/explore pretty much everywhere in ever expanding spheres, possibly with exponential growth in there if you have any Von Neumann type behaviour. If so, where they hell are they and why haven't they been here? Granted, its a big galaxy, and we have only really been able to deal with local space for a few decades if we are being kind, but come on, the hyper intelligent aliens are either really shit, non existent, or FTL is not possible.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #116 on: December 01, 2012, 03:30:15 pm »

We're just 1 galaxy in a sea of millions.

Maybe these guys we're hoping for are just on the ass-end of the universe, on the ass-end of a galaxy within that area?

Let's hope they mastered FT-FT-FT-FT-FT-FT-FT-FT-FT-FT-FT-FTL; or at least an Improbability Drive.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 03:33:07 pm by Itnetlolor »
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TheBronzePickle

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #117 on: December 01, 2012, 03:33:09 pm »

The aliens might not exist on the same plane as us anymore, or something.

Or, we might literally be the first sapient species to have ever developed. Someday, we'll be the ones abducting lesser species and anal probing them.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #118 on: December 01, 2012, 03:34:57 pm »

The aliens might not exist on the same plane as us anymore, or something.

Or, we might literally be the first sapient species to have ever developed. Someday, we'll be the ones abducting lesser species and anal probing them.
Damn highschoolers and fraternities/sororities. Stop violating the alien races for your own perverted means, or as initiation rites.

Starver

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Re: If we got FTL you would...
« Reply #119 on: December 01, 2012, 03:41:27 pm »

Would it be possible to use FTL drives as WMDs?

What I mean is using E=mc² to it's maximum potential. Even flinging bullets the size of cars at FTL speeds should destroy star systems, if I got it correct; or at least, cause some serious hurting to a planet of at least Earth's scale; or maybe collapse a star by sheer force of impact.
Actually, no. FTL works via physics loopholes, not by imparting actual kinetic energy to the ship. If a ship was stationary in it's warp bubble I imagine it would be stationary in normal space too if the bubble suddenly vanished.
Would that also bypass temporal physics? What I mean is, despite traveling light speeds, if you're stationary inside a bubble that allows you to travel FTL, you won't suffer the consequence of traveling at ludicrous time speeds? 1 year of "real time" travel (perceived within the ship) = hundreds of real time years passing (across the universe). After all, it would effectively be a temporal shield as well as a bubble in the sea of space itself.
The core of the hypothetical scenario I put in my TL;DR; post was about being shielded from the relativistic effects[1] and thus having a 'normal' journey, as if you were walking to the shops or something.

I'm not sure if you're saying that with a "temporal shield" only 1 year would pass for the hundreds of years you travel.  That's what happens with nothing "special" (except relativity, of course).  For time passing you at 1/100th the rate, just ensure you're travelling at...


1/100 = 1 - v2/c2
v2/c2 = 1-(1/100) = 0.99
v2    = 0.99c2
v     =(0.99)0.5c
v     = let's say 0.995c, to 3dp, but right now I don't think the precision matters too much at that magnitude of c.


Going 100LY in a single year (objectively and subjectively) under a "no time-dilation" supra-lightspeed Warp Drive mechanism is entirely... erm... possible...  Given the premise of a "no time-dilation supra-lightspeed Warp Drive" in the first place of course.



Quote
Man, it would suck being a space fly hitting that "windshield";
Trek has "deflectors".  As well as any technobabbly stuff about the warp field that might mean things edge around the ship anyway.  Handwavium, though, the lot of it. ;)

Quote
[...]they too are historical figures and were able to get away with abusing timelines to save the other historical figures from the police station by bending time-space like a pretzel by just thinking about an idea, and willing themselves to commit to it in the future.). What happens then?
  I'm a great believer in "What you go back and do, you've been back and done."  I don't think those films entirely stick to that convention, but that particular scene doesn't rely on them being special other than able to (having survived and succeeded thanks to their own future-selves' interventions) do what's necessary in the future of their own personal time-lines in order to fulfill what has already happened in their (now) past.  (Don't forget that the guys told themselves to trust their 'time-guide', in the first place...)

I like how Doctor Who played with that concept in the original Stone Angels episode.  Timey-wimey, indeed.  Not all of Doctor Who is as consistent (but some of this might be explained or made irrelevent with the occasional destruction and recreation of the entire universe across all space and all time!!!)..  meanwhile those of a different fictional bent might like to look up the fanfiction piece "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality", and then there's the fate of Dios in Pratchett's book "Pyramids" (although time is more convoluted than that, in a few other of the Discworld books, e.g. Nightwatch).  Twelve Monkeyshas this concept at its very core.  And, back to star Trek, "How do you know he didn't invent <the thing Scotty has just apparently anachronistically told a guy in the past all about>?" says our favourite 'Scottish' engineer.


(Hmm, did I just edit that all in the correct order?  I did a lot of cut'n'pasting in order to make it more manageable to read, but may have disastrously failed.)


[1] If non-warp journey would make your time pass at a rate of (1 - v2/c2), or (1 - 0.72/12) or approximately (1 - 0.5), which is 0.5 the rate of the universe you'd be in if you weren't moving.  So a 4LY journey might appear to take two and two-third years to you, even if someone with an equidistant viewpoint on your start and end points sees you taking five and a third years.  If we use a 'warp bubble' to make your travel (still effectively 0.75c from that edge-on viewpoint at rest with respect to both of our end-points) happen slow enough within the altered reality to not cause noticeable relativistic effects, then we're talking about time passing as much (or as little) as the end-points.

[2] Although they did, sometimes...  Scriptwriters, huh..?

[3] I'm going to say  assuming that this 100 years straddle a "leap-day on a century", even while I'm being arbitrarily accurate over arbitrarily large numbers... ;)


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