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Author Topic: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?  (Read 3197 times)

kabaal86

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Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« on: September 18, 2012, 09:41:13 am »

I'm looking for abit of advice.

I love dwarf fortress but I find when I get to the 30+ dwarfs mark even using dwarf therapist I am getting confused as to how I should have my labors assigned and who makes suitable candidates for my lacking military etc.

the migrants come with all manner of random skills all enabled and I'm never sure whether to let them keep their skills or get rid etc.

Does anyone have any tidbits of advice for me on good labor policies etc?

Regards
Kabaal
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pisskop

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 09:44:30 am »

I dump all skills excepting what I want them to do, appropriate hauling, and (sometimes) 'stupid' things like beekeeping or pump operating.  I go through every migrant I get and take a full inventory, and its the animals they bring that piss me off.  I wish I could make a "no pets" sign...
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kabaal86

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 10:01:52 am »

I dump all skills excepting what I want them to do, appropriate hauling, and (sometimes) 'stupid' things like beekeeping or pump operating.  I go through every migrant I get and take a full inventory, and its the animals they bring that piss me off.  I wish I could make a "no pets" sign...

ty for the advice.. I sort of have that same sort of setup at the moment. though I have a habit of the "farming/related" skills. I have 2-3 people who have them all selected. usually my high grade farmers. as they all are mostly not often used skills or stuff which takes a quick amount of time??

Also.. in regards to hauling labors.. do you leave them on or only have them on for dwarfs you consider "haulers" or not full time workers?
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Starver

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 10:15:01 am »

Personally, any migrants with any military skills at all (even if just a Dabbling Dodger) are initially eligible for one or other of my military units.  If they've got a valued civvy skill to a decent level, then they're in a part-time training unit, and if they've got dependants they're in a non-primary unit.  At first they all go into a 'refresher' or Boot Camp squad, to get non-weapon skills up (including Armour), then get farmed into (still segregated) weapon-specific squads for further training.  Those with an obvious weapon capability are easy to choose for, the remained are looked closely at before allocating (for attributes and other clues) but ultimately I'm going to bolster up that 'lone Speardwarf' with someone who's suitably open to any specialisation.

This is probably not the best way to do it, but it's what I do.

After all that is sorted, I tend to go down the Therapist job columns in the Civvy screen and sort them, in turn.  Any miner above a certain (good) level is ensured to be a miner by removing all other jobs (I don't tend to get any that are significantly skilled in any other civvy job, though I may already have them set up as a part-time military person).  For every other civvy job (that I'm interested in) I'll take anyone who is Legendary in a job, even if I don't have any work for them to do (I'll make sure that their supply-line is set up shortly, even if they have to start it off while they're waiting).  After that, the top 'N' dwarves with any skill get applied to it, if I need a further 'N' dwarves.  (No-skills in an industry without easy 'practice' are excluded, so I may be understaffed, at first.)

I'll generally 'mark' each dwarf as being 'dealt with' by de-selecting Corpse Hauling.  When I review a 'later' skill and find a 'sharing violation', I decide whether I want them to share their time between jobs or not.  (I'll re-enable corpse hauling when corpses need hauling, but I tend to avoid the need in the first place.)  This is also useful for working out which of the expanded list of dwarves are the ones about to arrive in a migration wave that's just started, letting me plan ahead before they arrive.  An alternate method would be to nickname them all, but after being over-verbose with nicknames (from my pre-Therapist days) I tend now only to nickname my military, and then with either their counterpart civvy job or something indicating they don't have a civvy job.  And I dredge my brain for particularly pithy nicknames (again, after a time of over-verbose nicknames like "Sw12Ma5Pl2") like "Urist 'Lodge' Uristurist" for a military Mason or "Urist 'Stupidboy' Uristurist" for a Pikeman of no civilian skill at all.

When I've finished with specialisations being filled, I sort by the corpse hauling stat (or whatever method gives me my "not yet looked at" list) and review each dwarf that remains.  As well as those that are qualified for it, Masonry (towards the end of block making) always seems to be my "dump job" for anyone who hasn't got any skill at all in anything (after pure Hauling or a subset thereof).  But that's because I always need blocks, and YMMV.  Indeed, in an emergency I'll give most (non-mining, non-planting, non-armoury) dwarves a chance to accomplish some masonry in their spare time.  In a real emergency, I'll even deselect their normal jobs, to encourage them.  I have to remember to revert them (or, when suddenly having another need unfulfilled, bring certain dwarves out of the 'block employment scheme' earlier than the rest).


TL;DR; That was a very bad summary (...'summary'... hah!) of what I do, but in an ideal fortress the people tasked to do each job are all of the best to do the job, none that have lesser (or totally absent) skills and everyone gets something to do.  Even if it's hauling.  I think that's more or less as Pisskop said.  Certainly good enough, given the discrepancy in reply-sizes. ;)
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pisskop

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 10:39:09 am »

I dump all skills excepting what I want them to do, appropriate hauling, and (sometimes) 'stupid' things like beekeeping or pump operating.  I go through every migrant I get and take a full inventory, and its the animals they bring that piss me off.  I wish I could make a "no pets" sign...

ty for the advice.. I sort of have that same sort of setup at the moment. though I have a habit of the "farming/related" skills. I have 2-3 people who have them all selected. usually my high grade farmers. as they all are mostly not often used skills or stuff which takes a quick amount of time??

Also.. in regards to hauling labors.. do you leave them on or only have them on for dwarfs you consider "haulers" or not full time workers?

In the beginning every has to pitch in, but in an established fort only the FNGs and fulltime haulers haul.

Myself I like to nickname the important dorfs(like the seven, legendaries, and the first dorf to occupy a job).  The rest get profession names, like Axechopper, or spearfarmer, or swordchisler(engraver).

I do matcj up skills/attributes, but if I want a new mason well it doesn't matter if you're a great fisher with no creativity, your going to sculpt rock now.
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kabaal86

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 10:48:11 am »

One Question answered leads to more questions. Such is Dwarf Fortress I guess lol.

I hadn't even considered the attributes of the dwarves in question.

and in regards to the military training scheme you have it sounds great but how do you get them to train "generally" is there a post I could maybe read that explains how training works and propagates?

Right... time to take a relook at my dwarves.. 39 dwarves and 11 of them are idle. >_>
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Cozmopolit

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 12:18:05 pm »

Some of my considerations:

- Melee military is male only. I dont want kids running towards the battle after their mothers.

- Masons are - in my case - usually the first to see an ambush. Like, the moment the goblins shoot at them. So they go into a crossbow squad (inactive) and waste idle time at the armory or (much better) archery target. They got some metal bolts assigned for combat, bone bolts for training, and use up whatever bone bolts I can make.

That training makes my masons good candidates for Mechanics (replacing cages for traps on the frontline), so all masons are mechanics and architects. Depending on the situation, I turn hauling on/off for the whole squad.

- My miners also do stone detailing. I just found that I rarely do those 2 things at the same time.

- Expedition Leader is the Doctor and Animal trainer. He does not haul, stays inside burrowed and does not have any long running jobs, so he's usually free to do whatever is urgent quickly.

- I never needed more than one Weapon/Armorsmith, and he doubles as only Furnace Operator until I hit about 50 total population.

- Farmer setup seems to be very variable according to taste. At the moment I have 5 farmers for a population of 41, they do all farming except planting/harvesting/gathering (I cheat, my kids do that, but I could probably just switch those skills back on and hauling off from all farmers, I'm down to only 13 fields (3x3 inside, 2x2 outside))

Cooking and Dyeing are the only 2 farming tasks where skill level produces better items, so you might want to run specialists there.

- a single Weaver/Clothesmaker/Leatherworker can keep A LOT of dwarves dressed.


Which makes my currently 41 dwarves:
19 kids/planters/plant gatherers
5 farmers (all but the above)
1 carpenter/woodcutter/stone detailer/mechanic
3 miners/stone detailers
5 masons/mechanics
1 weaver/clothesmaker/leatherworker
1 glassmaker/crafter/bone carver
1 furnace operator/smith
4 axedwarves
1 expedition leader/doctor/animal trainer

hauling jobs are switched on/off for almost all of them according to need.
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pisskop

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 12:34:44 pm »

One Question answered leads to more questions. Such is Dwarf Fortress I guess lol.

I hadn't even considered the attributes of the dwarves in question.

and in regards to the military training scheme you have it sounds great but how do you get them to train "generally" is there a post I could maybe read that explains how training works and propagates?

Right... time to take a relook at my dwarves.. 39 dwarves and 11 of them are idle. >_>

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Training
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Military
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Tutorials
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Military_interface

of all of these, the interface is (to me) the most important.  Really gotta either read up or experiment.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 12:49:04 pm by pisskop »
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daishi5

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 12:47:30 pm »

I have several broad categories.  peasants do stuff that I dont care about the quality and all my hauling.  Most dwarves are in this category.  Then there are my artisans, these dwarves do work I care about in terms of quality.  They dont haul, they all do all medical care, and only their one or two skills.  These are my valuable dwarves.  I also include wood cutters and miners as artisans because peasants are drafted into the militia when  have enough armor and those jobs interfere with the uniform. Finally I also have a military profession for full time soldiers.  They only do medical care, that way I can deactivate my military after a fight to increase the number of available doctors.

I dont always use the same skills for peasants and artisans depending on the map.  Armor crafting is always a dedicated valuable dwarf and butcher is always peasant work, but jobs like mason or carpenter change.
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gestahl

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 04:20:37 pm »

I've got 3 general classes for civilians. None of this really applies untill the third migrant wave, the 15-20 dwarves I have in the first year either do what they're good at or what I need at the time.

Dedicated workers, for things where skill matters and/or that I don't want the whole fort doing. If your in this group then this is all you do. Includes miners, 1-2 med dwarves, 1-3 farm dwarves with some combo of planting/cooking/brewing, a weaponsmith and a armorsmith- both with furnace op and blacksmithing/metalcrafting unless i plan to use those heavily, a wood/stone/bone crafter, 1-2 leatherworker/clothesmaker, and a team of glassmakers.

Workshop workers, for things that only need to be done well sometimes. Everyone that's not a dedicated worker gets carpentry, masonry, and mechanics enabled, but the workshops are restricted to just these dwarves (or skill level if you want). This keeps the no-skill wall-building idiots away from making marble tables and obsidian chairs, and with burrows can also keep your master mason from wasting time building walls.

The unwashed masses, for jobs that only a crazed drunk that lives in a hole is good enough for. Hauling, cleaning, stone detailing (pick out a skilled dwarf for engraving), the rest of the farming skills, weaving, architecture (since they do the hauling).

If your doing cloth as a trade industry then dedicate a dyer and weaver since both have quality. I don't generally do hunting or fishing, and turn off plant gathering after I stip the surface early on. I don't usually need woodcutting once I'm settled in unless I'm doing a tree farm, in which case haulers with decent woodcutting get it turned on, and wood hauling turned off. Pump operating is for pre-military dwarves to prevent bad thoughts, if I'm pumping water/magma rather then iron then all the haulers get it.
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Particleman

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2012, 06:44:45 pm »

Any dwarf without a useful skill (armoring, cooking, planting, etc.) I assign a custom profession. I normally start with stuff like "serf," "drudge," "peon," "lemming," or "minion," but after that I move on to things like rabuta, arbeiter, pracovník, darba, arbeideren, pracovnik, delavec, and pratcivnik (which all just mean "worker" in various languages.)

I divide them up this way in groups of 7 or so, so it's easier and faster to have them semi-specialize if I need them to. "I need some walls built. Pacovniks! Go build that wall! There's too much food needing to be hauled, rabutas, focus on that!" Otherwise I generally have them doing things that skill doesn't really matter for- hauling, milling, plant processing, pump operating, etc.

If I need a specialist- say, a dedicated weaponsmith, I either assign that to the worker who has the highest weaponsmithing skill or just whoever isn't busy at the moment if none of them have any skill in it. You will work your damn way up to Legendary from nothing the hard way if you have to, because that dwarf way Armokdammit. In either case, they get reset to their default profession name.
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AndreaReina

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2012, 09:11:19 pm »

At the start I have everyone do everything, except for mining, woodcutting, hunting, and fishing. 1 dedicated grower from the start, and as I get migrants I make (in no particular order) dedicated masons, manager, bookkeeper, brewer, cook, forge operator, etc. This way if I forget everything still gets done, just at a lower quality. I prefer females for the dedicated jobs, keeping the males for the military.
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kabaal86

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2012, 02:55:45 am »

Thank-you so much for the input and ideas. I think my job situation is so bad at the moment that I'm going to start a new fortress and try and get it right as I grow.

theres so much I didn't take into account like sending females and people with dependants onto the front lines etc.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/j9oszs
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DNK

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2012, 05:21:30 am »

Any dwarf without a useful skill (armoring, cooking, planting, etc.) I assign a custom profession. I normally start with stuff like "serf," "drudge," "peon," "lemming," or "minion,"........

I divide them up this way in groups of 7 or so, so it's easier and faster to have them semi-specialize if I need them to. "I need some walls built. Pacovniks! Go build that wall! There's too much food needing to be hauled, rabutas, focus on that!" Otherwise I generally have them doing things that skill doesn't really matter for- hauling, milling, plant processing, pump operating, etc.
This is smart. I usually just have a very large "laborer/thrall" group and switch them all into doing everything (hauling, cleaning, masonry, carpentry), but it isn't the most responsive approach.

Just remember if everyone is going to be a carpenter/mason to alter your workshop (P)rofiles to limit them to only the legendary/good ones.
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kabaal86

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Re: Dwarf Labor allocation best practises?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2012, 11:15:00 am »

I think that's what i'm going to start doing.

as I struggle to get bedroom and dining room furniture sorted whilst trying to build walls too. So I think if I can get a workforce of masons that can do the walls whilst having a restricted workshop just for my best mason and a secondary for any old dwarf.

hmm. I'm at work at the moment but I'm getting an itch to play DF. but I think it'll have to be a new save.. because I think I've just realised I only have dwarves as the only existing civ. because I never get any other caravans..

and I've only just realised that traps stop caravans. oops!

Also. only just read on the wiki about following the Depot access lines to see where the other caravans come from. Much to do!

I honestly don't know why I play DF. I Suck at Micromanagement!
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