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[Foamybeard]

I've recently built a deep (4 z-levels) moat, one that gets the water supply from the river. It only fills up the first level, due to the drainage system that keeps it flowing. I just drained it after a test flooding, and I am wondering, if I put spikes on the lowest level, would it increas the iffectiveness if someone fell into it? Like, if they landed on the spikes, would they start to bleed out, or would it just be a worthless addition.

[Akura]

Spikes work. That's why they're built pointing up, rather than first attaching them to a mechanism to raise them.

They "attack" anything that falls onto them(from a higher z-level, not falls unconscious as per other traps), as if the spikes had raised while they were standing on it. This is in addition to fall damage.

[Foamybeard]

I know that, but would filling the moat with water be a bad idea?

[Nyxalinth]

This is relevant to my interests. PTW.

I think the two together would be extra deadly, but it depends if in DF fluids would slow falling rate.  So I can see why you have concerns it could be useless.

[Hammerstar]

This is relevant to my interests. PTW.

I think the two together would be extra deadly, but it depends if in DF fluids would slow falling rate.  So I can see why you have concerns it could be useless.

As I remember dwarf physics, water does nothing to slow falls, at least not yet. A creature would fall through it as if they were falling through open air until they struck bottom. That's as I remember it. I'm not sure if the physics update with the minecarts did anything with water yet.

[Canadark]

I've never known dwarfs to get hurt just from falling into water. This question you pose warrants some experimentation.

[Gentlefish]

While falling into water may stun them, they could recover. With a few good spikes, you could cripple them, killing them quicker than either alone would. That's how I see it anyway.

[Bigheaded]

in this thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115761.0

it mentions about traps in water causing bleeding on the second spoiler of the first post.


So my guess is, is that spikes will be effective underwater.

[pixl97]

The spikes would be effective because creatures fall to the bottom of the water and hit the 'floor', spikes would make that more painful. That said, 4z levels isn't that far even on to spikes so many 'tough' enemies would survive. Drowning will be the most deadly part of your pit if there is no escape route. Have a backup plan to deal with things that don't die getting in the pit. Urist will not carry his socks home if there is a bronze titan wandering around in it. In this case rigging pumps to pressure wash the pit in to a 100z level pit covered by a bridge is recommended. Another way to make the pit deadly is to attach the spikes to a lever and set it to be pulled on repeat... granted this method requires a dwarf is taken from other duties, and it may have times that it ends up unmanned. That said, my fortresses end up with about 20 legendary workers and 80 slackers quantum dumping things in piles so dwarf power is cheap.

[Revanchist]

Does speed influence how well a creature dodges?
Most creatures in DF that live on land are far slower in water, so it stands to reason that the traps are far more effective in the water, or other such things...

[oven_baked]

May I suggest that you replace the water with magma? Far more effective than spikes and, of course, is much more awesome.

[Foamybeard]

I'm no where near a Volacano.

[krenshala]

As far as I have been able to tell, a victim gets a chance to dodge every attack.  Whether they take it (or succeed) is a different matter.  I've heard you can make a creature dodge multiple tiles by attacking with a multi-weapon weapon-trap.  I haven't tried that myself, but I know its the basis for most dodge-me pit traps people have posted about.

[misko27]

As far as I have been able to tell, a victim gets a chance to dodge every attack.  Whether they take it (or succeed) is a different matter.  I've heard you can make a creature dodge multiple tiles by attacking with a multi-weapon weapon-trap.  I haven't tried that myself, but I know its the basis for most dodge-me pit traps people have posted about.

I once had a problem because a goblin doged every single spike, then walked quite calmly into my fort to wreak havoc. I still don't completely trust them anymore.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Adding a layer of water to the bottom shouldn't notably affect fall damage.
Water does cushion falls some, but only reducing fall damage done while falling through water; they don't slow down, they just speed up less.