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[nanomage]

I'd like to again remind that we are going to forget the most important part of the tree, which is root. Multi-tile tree roots should pierce the soil beneath the forests, creating an entangled net of wood. The same approach as to shape tree's canopy seems suitable here.
I think trees should only grow as high as the soil depth allows, not because of coded limitations but because they should topple over if they exceed some maximum
size, which has to be derived from tree type and wind speed. So, the biomes where the trees have to grow higher to compete for sunlight should have plenty of toppled tree trunks rotting on the ground.

Roots should impede digging, maybe requiring the help of a woodcutter's axe, but if enough of them are dug out, that should cause the tree to weaken and probably die and maybe fall.

Framework for toppling a high column and colliding it with ground and dwarves would definitely be needed, and logs could only be obtained from fallen trunk and major branches after they are processed by a woodcutter. When the tree is cut down, skilled woodcutter might be able to set the direction of the fall.
 
Maybe some bigger logs should remain useable multi-tile structures, so that they might be used in traps or fixed in place to create a ready-to-use multi-tile wall, or maybe this has to wait for moving fortress parts.

Also, I think elven interference shouldn't really make trees grow faster or something - there really are no mechanisms for such influence. I mean, what exactly are the elves supposed to do to hasten trees' development? We're going to need some kind of mechanism or framework to implement their influence here I think.

I really only wanted to remind about roots, but the topic is so much fruitful you just can't stop suggesting things.

[Starver]

I'd like to again remind that we are going to forget the most important part of the tree, which is root.

  I didn't, but I did mention that I was skipping over it.  Ultimately, I envisage it could be a similar kind of "expand into" process as I suggested for the upper tree trunk/branches, only propagating into soil (and maybe rock, but slower) rather than into open air.


I don't agree that "only elven retreat trees should be MTTs", but I do think that as Elves already have a derived explanation of "budding their rock crafts, ethically" from their trees, that there's a raison d'etre for Elven influence on tree-growth.  Especially if they're telling their trees to "grow around spaces" to produce rooms in the bowls between now multiple growing treetops (which re-spread over the top to form a roof as well).

(Also, Deimos56, the "cuttable tree" being the first stage of a multi-tile-in-height-tree I basically covered, and early on, but I did write a TL;DR; message,I know.)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Elves presumably have some sort of magic. Two parts that, one part RL silviculture techniques, and you've got bigger trees.

[Manveru Taurënér]

...
Also, I think elven interference shouldn't really make trees grow faster or something - there really are no mechanisms for such influence. I mean, what exactly are the elves supposed to do to hasten trees' development? We're going to need some kind of mechanism or framework to implement their influence here I think.
...

They do, Druids. Afaik they don't really do anything atm but Toady mentioned in some DF talk way back that druids used to be able to come and animate the trees to attack you, if you'd been a naughty dwarf and cut down their precious forests ^^

[Talvieno]

...
Also, I think elven interference shouldn't really make trees grow faster or something - there really are no mechanisms for such influence. I mean, what exactly are the elves supposed to do to hasten trees' development? We're going to need some kind of mechanism or framework to implement their influence here I think.
...

They do, Druids. Afaik they don't really do anything atm but Toady mentioned in some DF talk way back that druids used to be able to come and animate the trees to attack you, if you'd been a naughty dwarf and cut down their precious forests ^^

I've never heard of this before, and I don't think it's true. Maybe in the future. But if so, it makes multi-tile trees insanely terrifying, especially if you imagine monstrosities like this attacking you:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Very excited for the vegetation changes. Might as well post the multi-tile tree mockups I made.

That said, I don't think it's going to happen, sorry. Especially not now that we have multi-tile trees coming in. Toady would have to completely rewrite the whole combat system.

[Telgin]

There is already some support for multi-tile creatures like wagons, but I imagine that Toady would like to make improvements to that system before attempting something like treants made of multi-tile trees.  A simpler solution would be to destroy the tree and create several single tile creatures, but that's getting tangential to the discussion.

Anyway, funnily enough the multi-tile trees with fruit is actually one of the things I'm looking forward to most in the upcoming release.  It will greatly simplify some modding hacks for fruit trees, and if it increases the availability of wood I'm going to be happy indeed.

[Knight Otu]

I've never heard of this before, and I don't think it's true.

I believe animated trees were a pre-first-release feature like the old undead invasions and wizards, but they used to exist, once upon a time.

[Manveru Taurënér]

I've never heard of this before, and I don't think it's true.

I believe animated trees were a pre-first-release feature like the old undead invasions and wizards, but they used to exist, once upon a time.

^ This

[Starver]

There is already some support for multi-tile creatures like wagons,

Not so much "support for multi-tile creatures", but "there hard-coded wagons".  Unless I've missed the "I've now made a generic MTC, and wagons (and their hauling animals and riding drivers) are one example of this" update, I don't think it'll be easily transferable code, yet.

[GreatWyrmGold]

You can make wagon-like creatures, but they're stuck with the full array of wagon issues.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

I think it is very important to make a very dense, almost impenetrable canopy in some places. Swamps should be close to jungles in this sense.

I like all of the ideas.

Possibly leaves could fall off in autumn, being pushed away by winds (similar to the wave mechanic near the ocean) This could also work for sand in a desert (resulting in some cases in a sand storm)

This definitely opens up the possibility for some new plants, Possibly some carnivorous As well as a revamp to many animals feeding and gathering styles. Possibly we could have new types of creatures in this next update even if that is a bit lofty.

All of these are unrelated, either way, Good hustle guys, I like what I'm seeing.

[dwarfhoplite]

I think it is very important to make a very dense, almost impenetrable canopy in some places. Swamps should be close to jungles in this sense.

Not all swamps are dense.
This pic is of one of the most common type of swamp in Finland, at least.
http://users.edu.turku.fi/thankala/perhe/summertime/suo.JPG

[Manveru Taurënér]

I think it is very important to make a very dense, almost impenetrable canopy in some places. Swamps should be close to jungles in this sense.

Not all swamps are dense.
This pic is of one of the most common type of swamp in Finland, at least.
http://users.edu.turku.fi/thankala/perhe/summertime/suo.JPG

That type of wetland is actually referred to as a bog, whereas a swamp more or less refers to a forested wetland afaik ^^

[GreatWyrmGold]

Once you get past the plainsy area, the bog looks pretty forested.
Unless that's a biome border.

[King Mir]

The point seems to be that temperate wetlands have varying levels of canopy, from no trees to very dense. Semantically grouping these changes nothing.