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[Manveru Taurënér]

How about underground terrace-like plump helmet (etc) farms with wooden reinforcements? If there's anything dwarves should take advantage of from living in the hills it's definitely the much deeper soil layers ripe for multiple levels of underground farms. As much as it might make more sense to have the hilldwarves adopt human farming methods and grow their crops aboveground it just wouldn't be that dwarfy, and it'd lessen the cultural differences as well as the needed variety in trade from the different civs. Some herbalism mayhap for local consumption, but I at least think it'd be better to have them focus mainly on underground crop production for export to the mountainhomes ^^

Edit: I guess it would make sense as well though. Why would dwarves willingly farm aboveground under the burning rays of the sun when they can do it better belowground with their crops of choice?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Because they left the mountainhomes in part to escape tat kind of life?
I'm not saying they'd throw out underground farms instantly, I'm just saying they'd pick it up eventually. If they're sun-tolerant enough to have their buildings connected by aboveground roads, they can find someone to farm above ground.

[Mr S]

Urist McNotQuiteLightAdjusted: "Just look at Lokem.  He lies about on the grass, out in the sun all day, picking berries, admiring butterflies.  He only comes under the solid embrace of the earth once a month, and at that just long enough to lug in a few barrels of harvest.  Otherwise, it's sun, breezes and cloud gazing, until the crops come ready."

Norek McStillABitCaveAdapty: "That poor, poor bastard.  Armok's speed, brave dwarf."

[GreatWyrmGold]

Both of those are Mountainhome dwarves, the kind of dwarf I theorized would absolutely not join those hill dwarf settlements. I imagine the mountainhomes would regard these settlements as odd or queer places, but ones with good crafting or farming and which accept metal goods and such at killer prices, which allows highly profitable trade that makes it worth the weird.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I don't think of hill dwarves as malcontents who leave for a different life. It's more of "we can't afford to live in New Lolok City, so we are stuck in the hamlet of One-humped Camel."
Also suburban dwarves, who want to have a fancy burrow with cinnabar walls but can't get it  living in the mountainhomes.

And the guys who wanna be a little further from the mandating noble than they currently are.

And the cheese makers, because they KNOW what their fate is if anyone discovers their profession, so they have to do it in secret.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I thought of hill dwarves as dwarves who chose to...I'll just quote my post, 'kay?

I imagine that hill dwarves would be dwarves that got sick of the hustle and bustle and claustrophobia and crowdedness of the mountainhomes. Therefore, they would probably build either spacious homes underground or large houses aboveground from stone blocks, probably with a wall around it for protection. The founders might have chosen an industry to specialize in and then import everything else, or they might try to be self-sufficient and go xenophobic.

Anyways, there's no denying that a group living among a culture different from that of their forefathers (e.g. dwarves living nearer to human plains than dwarven mountainhomes) has to be trying hard to not assimilate various cultural aspects, especially crops. Remember the Irish potato famine? Potatoes are from the New World, and the Irish were growing enough potatoes that losing them caused massive starvation.

[Manveru Taurënér]

I definitely don't see the hilldwarves that way, are there any quotes from Toady specifying what he had in mind for them? I just see them as rural dwarves pretty much, much the same in mindset and culture apart from living out in the hills and keeping more to agricultural professions, woodcutting and possibly some mining to send off for trade with the mountainhomes. It would to some extent not so much be of choice but more from necessity as the deeper soils for farming would be necessary to supply the mountainhomes with the food they can't produce themselves inside the mountains.

[GreatWyrmGold]

To my knowledge, there aren't many hints from Toady about hill dwarves. And why would hills be better than the nearer caverns, once walled off, for growing plump helmets? The only crops I can think of that dwarves would grow better in hillhomes than mountainhomes are surface crops.

[Manveru Taurënér]

To me at least it seems much easier to go out into the hills and dig out some space for farming than digging down and walling off an entire cavern complex, killing off the hostile wildlife and pests, as well as it barely having any soil to actually grow stuff in. And if plump helmets hypothetically needed dead plant material (dead giant fungi or wood) to grow from that'd be easier to get from forests out in the hills than the small supply of giant fungi in the caverns.

[GreatWyrmGold]

It seems a lot easier to do that than to form a completely new settlement miles from the main one, ship food across those miles of rocky terrain, and defend both against goblin attacks in perpetuity. Besides, they could also muddy stone in a nice room if they were afraid of he caverns.

[Manveru Taurënér]

A muddied stone floor wouldn't be anywhere near as fertile. But yeah, it's probably more of a game mechanic thing as well as imitating what is expected of the world (smaller agricultural communities outside the main cities). Even though the DF world doesn't really follow the real world history of urbanization etc it still has to mimic some aspects of how the world works to feel "right" ^^

[GreatWyrmGold]

A muddied stone floor wouldn't be anywhere near as fertile. But yeah, it's probably more of a game mechanic thing as well as imitating what is expected of the world (smaller agricultural communities outside the main cities). Even though the DF world doesn't really follow the real world history of urbanization etc it still has to mimic some aspects of how the world works to feel "right" ^^

You could fertilize it, you know. Hunt some stuff, toss the inedible bits into the mud, add some feces; it can't be worse than the mud they get in the caverns.

[AmpsterMan]

I don't know what Hill Dwarves ARE, but I kinda build just like them. I try to make an above ground fort with all of my workshops, mead halls, nobles quarters, etc on the surface with some minor farming in some greenhouses. Then I delve into the hill for most of my rooms; they are usually somewhat to very spacious 3x3- 5x5. The way I get my stone is that I build a mine INTO the bottom of the hill and channel my way downwards with slopes. My favorite way to play is to disable immigration and just let the little halls grow naturally. It's very fun and quite a change of pace from the regular typ of mountain halls.

[Crioca]

When I think Hill Dwarves I see a hill or number of hills, with earthen embankments carved into the hillside and connected via tunnels. They're not as concerned with heavy industry as their mountain brethren, but tend to focus on trade and agriculture, acting as an intermediary between the mountainhome and the human and elven settlements.

[Starver]

(InB4 the obvious Anti-Elf/Anti-Elf-Friend comments? )