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[Mephansteras]

If I understood your position, it is that there is some advantage to four year institutions, to better dorm rooms, to better professors, etc, though they charge a premium for it.

I do not understand how these views can coexist.

By the simple fact that every college/university is different and even within a given institution students may be getting more or less worth out of their time and money.

The time and money I spent getting my degree was well worth it. For another friend of mine, it was completely useless from a job standpoint. It's just how it goes.

[nenjin]

This is also my observation, yes. If I come across as an asshole, it isn't against you. I apologize if I have derailed this somewhat. I will end that by saying I would never attend a four year institution for the freshman and sophomore year of college.

It's cool. I know exactly where you're coming from. I was incandescent with RAEG right after I graduated, as I looked back at all the sheer BS I had to deal with to get through school. (I've sung that refrain in many a college thread in this forum already.) I had some teachers who didn't exactly treat me great, one of whom was the dean of my college who several times joked at my expense.

But a few years out from graduation I looked back, at my whole college experience and not just the shitty parts of it, and realized that it was actually a pretty decent school with a large contingent of good teachers and a lot of chances to do stuff. As a journalism student I had the chance to try and get internships at the New York Times, writing and reporting contests galore and tons and tons of ins to relatively high-powered jobs.

And I also realized that I missed out on a lot because my mindset was to keep as much distance between me and my college as possible, instead of embracing it. I kind of regret that now, but eh. I'm not talking like joining a frat and going to spirit club. But partaking of all the truly good things it offered.

I just wanted to add some balance to your opinion. I probably could have done it with fewer words. Schools vary, and many parts of all college curriculum ARE scams and there will be at least one professor you loathe as a human being. Probably because you'll try to talk to them as an equal and they'll treat you as anything but.

But there also a lot of good parts to a full fledged university community that simply doesn't exist on a lot of community college campuses because the atmosphere and goals are very different. College is the last time you're going to get to really be a student and be a professional learner. You'll pay for it, but it's not something I think people should pass up if they can afford it. While I can't say a college education seriously changed my life by this point or really elevated my socio-economic status.....I feel like I came out of it more well-informed and more thoughtful than when I went in. Maybe that wasn't worth quite as much as it cost....but if I had to do it over again, I'd still go to a university for that experience.

[mainiac]

As someone who actually did what you are suggesting(CC->4yr.), Truean, I don't really see eye to eye with you at all.  I certainly saw the utility of community college but I would very strongly disagree with the notion that college is useless.

And yes I found professors who were a complete waste of space.  I even had one actively delay me in getting my associates degree for no reason more then an ego trip.  There's bad stuff to be sure.  But the academic environment is very helpful to many people, particularly the kind of motivated people who take control of their own education like Skyrunner is trying to do.  I do not believe that the opinions you offer amount to what is the best advice for her.

[Skyrunner]

I think this disussion is fine. Various view points is why I made this thread, and I'm having them aplenty. :3

[GlyphGryph]

The facilities are more expensive. So what?

It matters a lot to an out of state student. It's not like they can go home if the school they're going to has shit dorms, shit dining halls and no other real facilities.

I would like to say I'm not sold on the "better facilities" argument - any CC in a city will be surrounded by the same facilities, likely of the same or higher quality, for significantly less money even if they aren't attached to the school itself. If there are dorms (unlikely in a CC), rent a room nearby. If there dining hall is shitty, make your own food, go to a restaurant, order delivery, etc. and so on. There will probably be a small industry nearby set up to cater to your needs, and unlike a college where you pay for the shitty food and shitty dorms even if you don't use them, you get the option at a CC to spend your money at whichever place meets your needs.

[nenjin]

It's not just that though. Computer labs, gyms, a decent bookstore, class rooms that have been renovated in the last 10 to 20 years and actually have modern tech....facilities includes a lot of stuff.

Sure, if you WANT to have to go a) find an apartment b) budget your food from various fast food restaurants and c) basically go off-campus for what you need, knock yourself out. Again, for an out-of-state student, with no car and no idea what's around them, going off campus for what you need is actually a pain in the ass.

[Shakerag]

Just to throw my hat in the ring here.

I have a master's degree in computer science.  I got my associate's degree from a community college, and transferred to a 4-year school. 

Frankly, of the two, I liked the community college better.  The students were better, and more diverse.  I had many "non-traditional" students in my classes (several were grandparents) and the classroom atmosphere was ... more relaxed.  4-year college felt more like "College" in that there was more of an "Animal House" vibe. 

If you do go to a community college first, have an idea of what 4-year you want to transfer to, and make sure they'll accept the classes you're taking at the CC.  I know I got screwed on one 3 or 4 credit hour class that didn't transfer over (despite it being practically identical to the class at the 4-year college). 

My personal opinion is that unless you want to fuck off, dorms suck.  Get an apartment if at all possible.  When I transferred to the 4-year, I opted to live on the "computer science" floor.  I was expecting to be outclassed, surrounded by people who did all sorts of computer stuff in spare time.  What I found was an entire floor full of drunkards who's extent of computer knowledge only went so far as how to set up a LAN so they could play Age of Empires 2.  Not only did not a single one of them know how to get on IRC, most hadn't even heard of it.  And the entire atmosphere was disruptive on a daily basis, with pretty much no one having any respect for anyone else. 

Also, if money is an issue, look into getting a Teacher's Assistant job.  I can't speak for any school but the one I went to, but as an undergrad it was something like 6 office hours a week plus whatever paper/test grading the professor wanted done.  I think they discounted tuition and gave extra money for it as well.  In grad school, when I was a Graduate Assistant, the work was about the same, but they waived tuition completely and gave you $1000 per month, which was a pretty goddamn sweet deal. 

So, yeah, I strongly suggest going to community college for two years, transferring, and see if you can get some sort of teaching assistant job. 

EDIT:  To specifically address your questions, Skyrunner:
I noticed no difference in education quality between CC and 4-year college classes.  I think I liked more of the professors at the CC over the 4-year, but quality-wise both seemed to be on par.  Both colleges had hard teachers, easy teachers, good teachers and bad teachers.  Actually, come to think of it ... scratch that, I liked the CC teachers better.  Most of the CC teachers were interesing and personable, and (at least in the computer science department) at the 4-year college I had a fairly high amount of Indian and Asian professors that were difficult to understand.  I also saw two teachers (both caucasian, interestingly enough) get fired from the comp sci department while I was at the 4-year. 

Tuition:  See above.  Anything past that I can't really help with, as I never had to deal with student loans.
Visa stuff: No idea, sorry.

[nenjin]

I'll second the "dorms suck" comment. It really comes down to what kind of person you are, what you're looking for and what you can tolerate. I have zero tolerance for other people's BS, and the dorms are chalk full of that. Some people LOVE being surrounded by strangers and other people's noise and what not. If you're not a social animal though, dorms are like a little slice of purgatory.

I did about a year at the dorms before I got the fuck out. Luckily I didn't have to get an apartment.

[GlyphGryph]

Sure, if you WANT to have to go a) find an apartment b) budget your food from various fast food restaurants and c) basically go off-campus for what you need, knock yourself out. Again, for an out-of-state student, with no car and no idea what's around them, going off campus for what you need is actually a pain in the ass.

You clearly went to a different school than me. The ONLY on-campus thing I used was the gym and the public lounges and classrooms, and that's because I was in a rural school where the gym was the only one around, and even used by non-students.

And as to the car thing, that was why I specified city CC. Though to be honest I made a pretty good time off campus without a car for a year. (Better than the hour commute I had for half another year)

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love living in dorms, but when you're paying twice what you'd pay for renting an entire house with 2 other people.... eh, not worth it, at all.

[Tellemurius]

For my school they don't have any dorms and rely on close apartments and condos for housing. Also some family houses around here are designed for students. Anyone needs a room and food for 200/month

[gimlet]

I got my BA/BS degrees through a mix of CLEP, city CC and city Uni.  My HS wasn't big enough to have a lot of AP classes so they had an arrangement with a local CC to take certain courses there - I did calculus and anatomy, and the 1st 2 computer programming courses that way.  Then I was able to CLEP out of about 1 1/3 years of the "distribution" courses - this was doubly cool because the distribution requirements I did have left I could start out with higher level courses that were actually interesting to me like "Rise and Fall of Rome" instead of yet another superficial survey of European History followed by another superficial survey of American History.   (The downside being that those easy classes are kind of a break, there were a few quarters where I had nothing but 5 hard courses in my majors which was kind of brutal.  Still, I'd rather have a few months of pain than twiddling my thumbs wasting time AND paying big bucks for the privilege in some complete jackoff class).

The CLEPS were pretty easy, like the poster above reading through a textbook during the week before the test was enough to pass easily in all the "soft" subjects like history, psychology, English comp, English lit, Management, Marketing, Business Law, even micro and macro economics.  Again check with the school to see which ones they accept and what scores you need, keep from wasting time and money on ones they don't.

I also took some night classes, partly because I worked during the day a few quarters, partly because I couldn't get the course I needed during the day (the guy above who said jump on registration - listen to him).  The night courses are where you see more serious students - older people with jobs, more mature, and more serious about the course because it's a real bastard to have a full time job PLUS spend 2 or 4 nights a week in class PLUS all the homework, so even in the freshman/sophomore level classes there was not anywhere near as many slackers partying through their parents' handouts/student loans that there was in a lot of the day classes.

Facilities, eh, I didn't care.  The library was the main thing and both were pretty good, plus there was the city main library plus interlibrary loan.  Plus tons of online stuff plus amazon or cheap fast used book webstores - just buy the damn book if you need it, it's a drop in the bucket compared to tuition.  Oh if you're really cheap and need an alternative text profs often have piles of review copies of other texts they're usually happy to loan you if you need (when I got stuck I liked to read alternative explanations in different books, no one text is perfect for everybody).  The computer stuff was good enough, really you should be able to do just about anything you need on a laptop nowadays.  The gym eh who cares you can work out anywhere.

"Student life" ehhh except for people/profs in my major who gives a crap, those are the guys who can give you a boost into the industry and who you want to keep contact with to keep abreast of professional opportunities.  EVERY school has clubs and activities, and if they suck there should be plenty to do in the city like ordinary people have to make do with - movies, concerts, theaters, all kinds of interest groups with meetup.com, whatever.  And even if not, there's always the internet, suffer through it for a couple of years big deal.   Dorm life looked like it sucked, it was expensive, cramped, lots of noise, and the typical student who lived there didn't strike me as very serious.  If you do need a part time job try for one through your department, especially lab type jobs where you can get more known by your profs and build some relations.

So I would recommend a city CC and a city Uni, there's an advantage if they're near one another the Uni will be more likely to have clear transfer policies but I would not be afraid to move either.  Try to take as many classes in your major at the Uni, but if you do start at the CC I would suggest getting the syllabus and ideally sample midterms/finals, plus buy the text they use (even a slightly old edition you should be able to get for peanuts).  Then you can be *almost* certain to avoid any mismatch.  If you are falling behind after you transfer get a tutor ASAP and catch up or it will just get worse and worse.

Also if you REALLY want to get a degree the fastest/cheapest way
1) Most schools let their full time employees take a certain number of classes for free.  Ideally find a non-sucky job (possibly after you finish a 2 year degree) and take the free classes til you finish the Bachelor's. (probably won't work for you because of visa limits)
2) There are a few accredited schools where you can test out of the whole bachelor's degree, so if you're really good at studying on your own you can apparently finish for a few $K - http://distancelearn.about.com/od/nontraditionalcredit/a/TestOut.htm and http://personalmba.com/hacking-higher-education-clep/  Then I'd say work a few years to make sure you enjoy your field and save some money, and try to get a job at a place that will pay for all or most of a Master's degree.  Or take a year off and do it, get your "student life" then when you can appreciate it compared to working

Good luck!

[ChairmanPoo]

The facilities are more expensive. So what?

Worth noting that depending on what you're doing this might be relevant. It might not matter much for social sciences, but if you're into naturals better labs-et-al might be quite important

[Mephansteras]

Very relevant point for Skyrunner: Since you're going into CS, a 4 year University may not be necessary. A good degree will help you land a job, but having a degree plus some good project that you can show off is even better. Programming is one of those rare fields that make good money and don't require a fancy degree to get a good job.

A degree helps, but a solid understanding of coding and some personal projects under your belt can be just as good or even better for landing you a job.

I'd try to figure out what type of coding you want to do and put some personal time working on that. If you goal is making money, you may want to look into Database Programming. It's a field that makes more money on average than other coding jobs and tends to be in high demand.

It is not, however, as exciting as other fields. So you'd probably want to do some hobby programming on the side for excitement.

Looking into SQL is a good idea anyway, though, because a programming who can code a standard language (Java/C++/C#) and can program SQL and work with databases is pretty rare. It can open up some good doors for you, even if databases aren't your main focus.

[Skyrunner]

Most big companies want a Bachelor's in CS, so that's not possible.
Still, I know that CS is more of a experience than a degree field.
For SQL: I was thinking that I should pick it up sometime anyways, and was gearing up to do it when I have time. The hardest parts for me is (1) understanding the SQL header (2) setti g up and connecting to the database.

Dx

[Mephansteras]

Try downloading MySQL and giving it a try. It's not too complicated, and there are lots of tutorials and whatnot out there.

Another thing to think about in terms of Universities is to pay attention to what areas a given 4-year is known for.

For example, in San Diego if you want a highly respected CS degree you'd get one from UCSD, while people looking for a Business Degree would get one from SDSU. Different schools tend to be good at different things, so it can pay to know what you're paying for when it comes to name recognition.