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[Skyrunner]

So... some of you might know that I live in Korea, and want to go international for college, probably a US once, since I have no preparation for other nations' schools. The bad thing about doing that is that you get no discounts for tuition ever, no in-state third-ing of fees, no nothing. :s Colleges also tend to not give scholarships to international students. I've heard that going to a community college for the general class credit, and then moving to a four-year to get a degree is much cheaper, but my parents insist that community colleges are end-of-the line, horrid places where the education is the worst you can get anywhere.

Uh...does anyone have experience/knowledge about the reality of community colleges? Is it hard to move from a 2 year to a 4 year? Are there any special benefits to either one?

BTW, I want to get at least at bachelors (Science) in some form of computer sciences, and work as a programmer or related. :-0

TL;DR: Pros and cons of 2 years CC + 2 years regular university vs 4 years straight of regular university?

Spoiler: Other things I want to talk about (click to show/hide)

Among problems are

@ paying tuition D:
@ acquiring and holding a visa
@ ...does anyone know if an F visa holder is allowed to work in the US while a student?

[nenjin]

Community colleges are not bad to get a start on your degree. There's no EARTHLY reason anyone should pay 4-year college prices to take stuff like "College Algebra 101" "Biology 101" and all those other things that are college requirements. Being from another country, there's no real telling which of your courses will count for American college credits, and which ones won't. I graduated from high school, assured that I had completed all the requirements to enter the local university....and it turns out I lacked about 3 courses. And my high school and college are in the same town!

The quality of education you get at a community college, to me, is kind of irrelevant if you're not planning on staying there to get a degree. The curriculum at a community college is either accepted by 4 year universities, or it isn't. Personally, while community college courses aren't as high-falutin' as 4-year college courses, they're adequate based on my experiences. They are geared for people who want to start working sooner than later and are often just trying to meet the bare minimums, but they give you the fundamentals. And again, if you're going to a 4-year college, the absolute quality of education you're getting at a community college is kind of unimportant compared to the next 3 to 5 years of education you're going to be getting at a 4 year university. It's kind of like sweating having a bad driving instructor when trying to get your license. Having a bad instructor for the 30 minutes they're in the car with you means very little compared to the next 50+ years of you driving. As long as you passed, that is.

So. Your parents are....half right. You can get a degree at a community college that is perfectly fine for lower-level stuff, accreditation, ect.... but if you want that full on Bachelor's degree or anything higher, you'll want a 4 year university.

Community colleges can also be helpful for adjusting to the rigors of college courses. Sort of. Sometimes. They tend to be slightly less intense than your average 4 year college.

If money is no object to your parents and you feel equipped to start a 4 year college, just go to a 4 year to start with. If you and your parents are interested in saving money and you don't mind the extra hassle that transferring schools, getting your transcripts sent, ect... presents, a community college is a decent place to start.

On the other things, sorry I'm not a lot of help on those. I have no idea what challenges someone faces trying to go work and go to school on a certain class of Visa.

[silverskull39]

While in general I agree with nenjin, I think there are a few caveats. The first is that I personally would only get gen ed requirements at a community college. The courses aren't necessarily abysmal, but there's a reason the professors ended up there instead of at a big name university; the quality does suffer, not necessarily in content (immutable physical laws are the same pretty much everywhere) but definitely in how well they are explained. Where you learned the material doesn't matter as much as how well you learned it, though, to be sure.

The second caveat, I think, is the people you will end up studying with. Not a major issue, but something to consider; community colleges let just about anyone in. This usually isn't a problem, and can even be a boon (meet interesting people and all that), but every once in a while shit goes down. My brother's girlfriend got sexually harassed (nothing serious, but harassment nonetheless) in the middle of class by a "Thug". The teacher didn't do anything because she "didn't want to offend him".

If you're confident you can learn the material well enough and not be distracted/too perturbed by the environment, there's no reason why a community college is out of the question, so long as you make sure your credits will transfer.

[nenjin]

The first is that I personally would only get gen ed requirements at a community college.

I'm with you on that.

make sure your credits will transfer.

This is the biggest thing. Don't waste time, money or effort on classes that don't transfer. Get your community college class list, and then run it by the university administration where you want to go and verify those credits will transfer.

other stuff

Get in, get out. That's my general take on Community College. Having less than stellar teachers or less than stellar human beings for peers isn't great, but it's not crippling to your ability to do what you need to do. For those entry-level courses, even bad teachers can't really stop you from getting the grade you need. The courses simply aren't that demanding. If you find yourself struggling with the community college curriculum, that can be an indicator of how much you're going to struggle with 4-year-college courses. (Which, based on my experience, ask for more reading and more out-of-class application of what you're learning.)

[Shinotsa]

Check out community college transfer programs. I know NOVA/NVCC (Northern Virginia Community College) had a great program with George Mason and some other local Universities that guarantee a successful transfer if you maintain a B or higher in all of your classes. The important thing to remember is that there is no notation on your degree saying that half of it was done at a community college, if you transfer to a better school for the last two years (sure it's still expensive, but about half as expensive as doing the whole thing at a normal university) the degree is FROM THAT SCHOOL. Just do some research first and follow the previous advice on verifying transfer credits and the like.

Also, California has great weather, but the living costs in the South are cheap. See if you can't find someone halfway experienced in the field and learn from them, be it a B12er or a professor you get in contact with via e-mail. It's always good to have a mentor and a friend wherever you plan on going.

Oh, about that sexual harassment thing - people in community college aren't necessarily worse than people in a big-name university. But they are less-likely to take things seriously from my experience. Try not to get caught up with the wrong people. It's easy to go from learning the area to trying to get your pants off a ceiling fan in a house of a friend of a friend of a - okay I have no fucking clue where I am.

[MaximumZero]

Do you know where in the US you want to study? This has a huge impact on the quality of courses offered.

[Tellemurius]

Here in Utah Valley Uni they have some international programs to get kids here. Im basically paying community college tuition for a bachelors degree and the atmosphere is fine (avoid the LDS Institute complex though, you'll never get out alive ). On side note theres few PhD programs here and you would be better off going to University of Utah for that but thats easy transfer.

[Knight of Fools]

(avoid the LDS Institute complex though, you'll never get out alive ).

Or unbaptized, at least.

From what I've heard, though, Utah has some pretty nice international stuff to compete with the likes of BYU (An LDS college), which is actually cheaper for out-of-state students than Utah students, and the Salt Lake/Provo area is dotted with lots of colleges and universities. I knew some people from the area and considered going there to study, but ultimately living with family for free won out.


I thought about mentioning online courses, but I think the cost and inconvenience may outweigh the benefits there.

[MaximumZero]

As far as transferring, if you pick a CC, they usually have a list local universities picked out that just about everything transfers to. Talk to an advisor and make sure that the university you want to go to is on the list before you even consider classes.

[silverskull39]

I thought about mentioning online courses, but I think the cost and inconvenience may outweigh the benefits there.

Online courses, in my experience, are so bad they're laughable. Granted, my experience is mostly the rumormill/grapevine. Still, if my choices were online courses or wait till I have more money, I'd go with the waiting.

On the subject of money: Tuition! That horrible beast which lurks behind all promises of higher education! CC isn't expensive enough that you really need to worry about, especially not if you/a family member have a decent credit score to get a loan. Loans are an evil plot by lenders to slowly devour your soul, but they have their uses, and as long as you're reasonable about it you can get in and out without too much trouble. The big name university is where it's gonna hit you the hardest, along with living expenses etc.  My advice is, if at all possible, find a college that has a co-op program, where you're more or less paid to get experience in your field. You won't make near as much as a graduate with a degree, but it takes a chunk out of even the most expensive colleges because it's actually a professional job instead of just fast food/service industry bullshit.  This is, of course, dependent on whether or not you are allowed to work on whichever visa you get, but if its part of the school's curriculum I don't think it should be a problem.

[mainiac]

In my experience community college was really great and was a real turning point in my life.  I wouldn't be a couple months away from my 4 year degree if it weren't for community college.  To be fair my story isn't completely rosey.  You won't get many major specific credits at your community college so you will need to cram a lot of major specific 400 level classes into your senior year.  When I went to college my schedule consisted almost entirely of 400 level courses in my major but I still didn't have enough of those to graduate without tacking an independent study onto the end for a final 3 credits.

As an international student I think you also have a real opportunity to pick and chose.  Community colleges vary as much as 4-year colleges do.  So scour the entire country and find a community college that would offer the courses you want that can help you along the way to your 4-year degree.

You should also consider the fact that many American universities allow you chose deferred admission.  Apply to 4-year universities right now and pick which one you are going to go to from the ones that accept you.  Then defer admission for a couple of years.  This way you will know ahead of time which program at which university you are building towards and pick your classes accordingly.  You can find a community college that transfers a lot of students to that college and already has worked things out with the registrar so that you know ahead of time that your credits will transfer.  Your graduation requirements should be set by the year you started college not by the year you entered 4-year college so you don't need to worry about the graduation requirements at your 4-year college changing before you finish community college.

It also could be possible if you pick a community college close enough to a 4-year university to get a few 4-year university credits on the side while still being a community college student.  This would disqualify many community colleges in rural areas however unless you have the driving habits of a rural american (Rural Americans drive a lot compared to Koreans, I drove 400 miles on friday and plan to do it again every friday for a couple months)

[Shinotsa]

Mainiac knows the ways of the South by proximity if not direct interaction =p. But he is certainly right in that you'll need to drive a great deal if you pick a rural school since the community college campus is most likely far away. However, this is not always the case! I live in Richmond, Virginia and go to VCU. Within the city, hell, just off of the VCU bus stop is J. Sargent Reynolds Community College. There is also one much closer to the suburban area (with affordable apartment housing) and a few other locations.

First off, I don't know a damn thing about VCU's computer science programs, so they're probably not all that good. Thus, I am not creeping on you. I'm merely trying to point out that while many places, especially in the South, require a great deal of driving between a traditional university and the nearest community college, that if you look in cities you are more likely to find them side by side, because it always is useful to be able to take a few courses at one and supplement some at the other. I actually had a friend who took 24 credits one semester (please for the love of god don't do that) by jumping between J. Sarge and VCU. Also, community colleges generally have many campuses. This can be a blessing and a curse. The good news is that most campuses offer the very basic gen ed 101 courses. The bad news is that for anything higher the campuses tend to be specialized. You may move right beside one of the campuses thinking that's the one for programming or whatever it is you wizards do, but it turns out to be the medical campus and the real one is an hour drive away.

[nenjin]

One strategy you might want to explore is checking for any community colleges in and around major universities. Guaranteed to have at least one Community College within a short radius if it's a reasonably big university.

I have....at least 5 different community colleges, of varying degrees of cost, acclaim, distance ect... in a city of less than 250,000 people. In a town that takes 20 minutes to drive across. This on top of a major university, and several minor university. With an entire campus about 40 minutes away in the next major city over.

So yeah. Location, location, location. Cities that are known as "college towns" are going to have community colleges coming out the wazoo, to support students like yourself and high school students getting into the major university in town.

[Cthulhu]

Echoing previous sentiments, community college can cut quite a bit of money off a degree, depending on what it is.

It can also be a good way to escape a terrible past, if you did badly in high school.  Community colleges are very accepting, and you can turn a new leaf, getting your gen eds and good grades to show the university you want to apply to.

[Skyrunner]

Thanks for all the replies.

So, is CC not as bad as my parents think? :S It seems that taking one or two years in CC to cut costs, then take specifics at a four-year university sounds reasonable, but I don't know if I could convince my parents, nor if the CC will provide a good education >.>

Deferred education might be an OK way to present it, since I'm basically accepted at a college that way ... hrm.

Is it possible to take just one year of CC and then three of univ? :-0
For working, I think the F visa lets students work to help pay tuition and living costs. Not a permanent work permit, sadly.