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[Neonivek]

Hello and welcome, the goal here is to come up with ideas for how to make the Arch Liberal gameplay more difficult for the player.

The Theory I've always thrown around is that the game is supposed to run on a parabola where Moderate is the easiest and where Arch Conservative is very difficult because everything is so hellish... yet Arch Liberal is so difficult because everything is perfect and have the means to deal with you (afterall the idea is that the Liberal way of doing things is best).

I should state that these are mostly pulling ideas we came up with from other sections of this.

Sieges:
-Police Negotiator: Obviously in the Liberal world their goal is not to kill you and so their highly trained Police Negotiators will start speaking to you during a siege. Being hit with this will drain 100 juice and those who do not have the juice to spend will immediately surrender. These can be done from the entrance. They drop Megaphones which are similar to the Guitar but use Persuasion.

Prison
-Liberal Prisons focus almost exclusively on rehabilitation. Thus every day a member is in prison he has a chance of leaving the crime squad adjusted by their heart and juice. You can break them out but they need to be re-recruited so to speak.

CCS
-The CCS could be a lot more sneaky and more akin to the LCS when they started out. They should lack a headquarters and rely on a fully functional council (similar to how a buisness is run). While they won't attack the LCS dirrectly anymore, as you have the advantage. Their actions should dirrectly impeed you without dirrectly opposing. For example they could plant members in key locations you show up in and call the police on you, they could send sleeper Lawyers after you in court, They could plant car bombs in the random cars you can steal.

That is all for now. What do you think? Do you have anything to add?

[Jboy2000000]

I like it, all of them, I like them a lot. But its elite liberal, not arch-liberal.

[misko27]

I always saw it as arch conservative being harder moreso for non-violent methods, and elite-liberal beign hard for violent techniques. Nothing says you can't just be liberal activists and such nonsense., while the arch-conservative methods prevent you from free-speech, and get you beaten and kill'd where the violent ones get guns galore and conservatives to shoot.

[Donuts]

send sleeper Lawyers after you in court

I find Judges, or Jury's more fitting here.

[Neonivek]

I always saw it as arch conservative being harder moreso for non-violent methods, and elite-liberal beign hard for violent techniques. Nothing says you can't just be liberal activists and such nonsense., while the arch-conservative methods prevent you from free-speech, and get you beaten and kill'd where the violent ones get guns galore and conservatives to shoot.

Neither is really the case.

Arch-Conservatives have squads of heavily armed stormtroopers and arn't above the use of excessive force prefering to shoot first and asking questions later.

While Elite Liberals are trained in the dogma of peaceful resolution and psychology easily demoralising any attacking force or disabling it. While they are not as gun-toting they are much more intelligent in their approach as well.

Honestly going non-violent in Conservative apocolips is still easier then violent. While I could entirely see Elite Liberals being even tougher going the non-violent route (afterall, how well can a lawyer do in a "fixed" legal system where the evidence wins the case? How many sleepers will go back to sleep? and if the Liberal system knows the criminal mind much better then the Conservatives then they obviously know exactly how to combat you as well) plus non-violent actions of Liberalism would mean less as well.

I understand though what you mean. Parabolic arc where you switch strategies to win because you essentially need both. I just think both Arch Conservatives and Elite Liberals should give you a run for your money for both strategies, just in their own way.

[Neonivek]

I thought of this in another thread which is mainly Liberal and Conservative unique weapons... however I only got one for the Conservatives

The Orwel42: It appears as a ordinary gun but it fires flaming bullets. While it is a rather good weapon in Liberal hands, it is meant to give powerful burning wounds that eat your liberals alive long after it had struck.

also I appologise for the name.

Ohh I know!

The O-82

[brainfreez]

that seems overpowered and unrealistic .

[addictgamer]

that seems overpowered and unrealistic .

It's more or less realistic.
As for overpowered, I don't know. I've never been good at balancing things.

[Neonivek]

Well the trick is giving the Death Squads an advantage without simply giving the Liberals a new toy to allow them to mow everything down even better then before.

I imagined it as a weapon made to be more advantageous for the enemies then for you simply by how the mechanics work. (Similar to some games. Where some moves are based off of causing long term damage FAR after the battle is over... but are useless for you because you will either kill your enemy or be killed yourself)

That and flaming bullets just... seemed to fit the theme.

[addictgamer]

When you put it that way, it does sound like it would fit. I'm in favor of toughing up the opposition for when the game starts seeming too easy for your godly armada.
Furthermore, you could make the incendiary rounds hard to obtain due to a highly illegal status due to being considered inhumane. Conservatives would use it because they don't care about such petty things as "humane" or "inhumane".
That'd be pretty interesting...

[brainfreez]

When you put it that way, it does sound like it would fit. I'm in favor of toughing up the opposition for when the game starts seeming too easy for your godly armada.
Furthermore, you could make the incendiary rounds hard to obtain due to a highly illegal status due to being considered inhumane. Conservatives would use it because they don't care about such petty things as "humane" or "inhumane".
That'd be pretty interesting...

Army should bring M249's with their raids and thet would be enough .

also rocket launchers .

[RenoFox]

I don't remember who here invented it, but having use of illegal guns turn public opinion on guns towards conservative is a brilliant idea. "If guns are illegal, then only criminals will have them!"

Liberal freedom of speech would also mean the same freedom of speech for the conservatives. While your civil disobedience would go down on effectiveness, conservatives spreading pamphlets about homosexual rape and failures of female managers would not only become more efficient, but protected by law. Towards the end, YOU'd be the one suppressing ideas, because the society has become too idealistic to stop even the wrongdoers.

[Neonivek]

Remember also RenoFox that we cannot pervert the Liberal world. Ordinary evil doers would have long since packed up simply because, while certainly the liberals cannot dirrectly stop them, because the teachings and practices of Arch-Liberalism is close to perfection.

The ones passing out those pamphlets would likely be the CCS.

[RenoFox]

The ones passing out those pamphlets would likely be the CCS.

Ah yes, that's what I meant. Oppressing freedom of speech from civilians would be just wrong, but CCS is an extremist organization that they are already antagonized. If they're still spreading lies despite good education, they are so troughoutly dedicated to evil that they are beyond saving.

However, I admit that this might be muddying the issue too much to fit the spirit of the game.

[Neonivek]

Well what I meant was that I was hoping you weren't refering to ordinary conservatives on the street.

Yeah the larger issue with dealing with the CCS is that for once they are entirely protected by the law without heaping piles of bribary needing to be involved.

Unless of course the CCS also commit crimes, but I always figured when they are pushed back to such an extent that the laws are Elite-Liberal that they will start to be subversive. While in Arch-Conservative they can be as loud and insane as they want.