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Voting closed: September 10, 2012, 07:56:54 pm


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Author Topic: Community Aurora 4xGame: Allies & Reich in Space. Meeting the Reich at Jupiter  (Read 39617 times)

EuchreJack

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #105 on: September 14, 2012, 05:51:21 pm »

This isn't true.  You can create a troop transport capable of transporting an engineering brigade (which takes 5 bays) in under 20 ktons.

Code: [Select]
Lictor class Troop Transport    17,350 tons     178 Crew     382.5 BP      TCS 347  TH 188  EM 0
541 km/s     Armour 1-59     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 14    Max Repair 40 MSP
Troop Capacity: 5 Battalions    Cargo Handling Multiplier 15   

General Electric C62500E10 Nuclear Thermal Engine (3)    Power 62.5    Fuel Use 10%    Signature 62.5    Armour 0    Exp 1%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 51.8 billion km   (1108 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

Nice LP, btw.

For Corundium! It must be because I think the troop transport bay weight 5000 tons (100 HS), I check again and it was 2500 ton (50 HS). WHAT A BLUNDER! 5 TTB was not 25.000 tons but ony 12500 tons. *Facepalm*
Now I must ask the players if they want to change the starter ship with Troop Capable Ship...

Well, thank you, but it really just an excuse plot to get SPACE NAZIS... (Allied Nations was an United Nations expy)
Afterall, I shamelessly based on your LP in somethingawful. I read it everyday, and for me it was beyond awesome, it makes me think Aurora has a tremendous Multiplayer capabilities, just like DF did. It started as an assistant to table-top game afterall. That inspired me to make a community game just like this...

SO, dear Directorate members and Officers, based on BGreman input, how about we change the starter ship with this:
1 Boeing 808 Starwagon Colony Ship.
1 Lockheed C301 Atlas Freighter
1 BAe Inquirer GeoSurvey Ship
1 STILL INDETERMINATE TROOP TRANSPORT
2 Project VICTORIA Gunboat.

I will postpone the time increments unti I get some 'aye' or 'nay' from Directorate and Officers.

For the civilian ships, I like the starter ships chosen.  I also like the Lictor design submitted by BGreman.

However, I'm wondering if we'll want bigger ships as our starting naval vessels than the one I designed.  The VICTORIA Gunboat was designed to be mass-produced cheaply, not constitute our capital fleet.  To that end, we can probably build them quick enough not to warrant wasting our starting two military vessels on my beauty.

I'd have to know what the limits are to our two starting craft in order to submit a design.  I'd imagine that it is either a missile boat or an upgunned version of the VICTORIA.

If we can save the miltary vessel for later, we might want to reserve one slot for when we develop a gravsurvey ship.

Darkening Kaos

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #106 on: September 14, 2012, 10:52:42 pm »

Gravsurvey might be a long way off, we're better served settling on a main military design.  Aboth Ber has indicated 2 {free} prototype ships of 1,000 tons and 2 of 2,500 at the start.

I disagree about the Victory however - I see it as a potential picket-ship escort with the option of small scale swarm in combat, second only to massed fighters - I'd like twenty over each colony we establish.  Also, upscale the Victory, {Victorious?}, to 2,500 tons and that can be our first battle-wagon, another one we can produce for ourselves when we finally get enough production to support it.  We need a fighter design and that is made difficult by our low level tech at present, but with the sensor based fighter designed by EuchreJack, it would fill the Reich sensors with lots of blips and that will surely mess them right up.  Plus, we might be able to refit them later when we get the techs to make arming them possible.

We should go ahead and start producing the Victory for ourselves, possibly grab one from Northrop-Grumman, {seriously, you can smell the quality right there!}, as a prototype to work from and to have one blip in the sky.

As for our Corundium conundrum, let's hope we secure a cache on one of the Jovian moons, or further out, that was one of the main reasons I designed the Hebrides with extra capacity - to get the job done quicker and go further.

Speaking of colonists - move everything we can to Mars, even our Naval shipyards where possible, but, by the time we have the resources to do that, Earth won't have the resources to do anything other than be a breeding factory for future colonists, and I don't really count on the reliability of that.

{PDC's - I tried but didn't have anything suitable to use as an example.  I can't give an honest opinion about any design not having made any before to know their effectiveness.  But....French, really?}


Provisional Captain Darkening Kaos;
Survey Division.
Logged
So! Failed to make peace, war looms, kill the infidels... what are our plans for the weekend?
The Giant Moles in the caverns of my current fort breed like crazy, even while regularly being decimated by other beasts entering them...

Aboth Ber

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #107 on: September 15, 2012, 12:49:11 am »

For the civilian ships, I like the starter ships chosen.  I also like the Lictor design submitted by BGreman.

However, I'm wondering if we'll want bigger ships as our starting naval vessels than the one I designed.  The VICTORIA Gunboat was designed to be mass-produced cheaply, not constitute our capital fleet.  To that end, we can probably build them quick enough not to warrant wasting our starting two military vessels on my beauty.

I'd have to know what the limits are to our two starting craft in order to submit a design.  I'd imagine that it is either a missile boat or an upgunned version of the VICTORIA.

If we can save the miltary vessel for later, we might want to reserve one slot for when we develop a gravsurvey ship.
Gravsurvey might be a long way off, we're better served settling on a main military design.  Aboth Ber has indicated 2 {free} prototype ships of 1,000 tons and 2 of 2,500 at the start.

I disagree about the Victory however - I see it as a potential picket-ship escort with the option of small scale swarm in combat, second only to massed fighters - I'd like twenty over each colony we establish.  Also, upscale the Victory, {Victorious?}, to 2,500 tons and that can be our first battle-wagon, another one we can produce for ourselves when we finally get enough production to support it.  We need a fighter design and that is made difficult by our low level tech at present, but with the sensor based fighter designed by EuchreJack, it would fill the Reich sensors with lots of blips and that will surely mess them right up.  Plus, we might be able to refit them later when we get the techs to make arming them possible.

We should go ahead and start producing the Victory for ourselves, possibly grab one from Northrop-Grumman, {seriously, you can smell the quality right there!}, as a prototype to work from and to have one blip in the sky.

As for our Corundium conundrum, let's hope we secure a cache on one of the Jovian moons, or further out, that was one of the main reasons I designed the Hebrides with extra capacity - to get the job done quicker and go further.

Speaking of colonists - move everything we can to Mars, even our Naval shipyards where possible, but, by the time we have the resources to do that, Earth won't have the resources to do anything other than be a breeding factory for future colonists, and I don't really count on the reliability of that.

{PDC's - I tried but didn't have anything suitable to use as an example.  I can't give an honest opinion about any design not having made any before to know their effectiveness.  But....French, really?}


Provisional Captain Darkening Kaos;
Survey Division.

A little correction : only 2 military ships up to 2500 tons.

If you want, we can upscale the Victorious to 2500 ton, with additional Plasma Carronade, and a another layer of armor. I'll post the design later since I don't had a copy of Aurora in this comp.
And yes, the bonus 2 ships can be 'stored' for later use. We can just assumed the Defense Contractors provide some prototype to Allied Military.

I don't know, but I think Fighters can't be refitted. But stil if we make a sensor fighter we can build a new fighter without active sensor. The proposed Sensor-Fighter can act a SWACS.

Missile based weapon although powerful is still a little cumbersome at this tech level. If we can get the ship size into 6000 range and more stronger missile that's a different story.

So I think the Survey ships will go to Jupiter and beyond. In the future the ANSEC, ANEA and ANMoT can decide what the Survey Ships should do.

The Meson Armed PDC was built to counter 'possible' MIRV attacks by Reich or other Nations. Don't worry we can think this later. The French can quickly refit their Maginot Fortress into TN-grade PDCs.

A little ramblings:
Since unknown time, French was a very strong land power, only the event of World War that devastate France and hurt their economy, military and national pride that make them lok wimpy to the rest of world, but in our timeline, the war never happens in the West, the war happens in the East, so France was spared economically and their military 'learned a lot' from Middle East and Indo-China combat (the French had the largest military casualties of Allied Nations in Middle East and Indo-China theater may had some part in that)
The French in this timeline are way beyond adept in building fortifications, they after all spend the last 40 years facing Reich and Italy border. They turned the wimpy Maginot Line into conjoined Wall of Concrete and Metal with Spiked of Masterful 155mm Guns and SAMs spanned from Belgium into Italy, the whole Eastern French Border. Even combined airstrikes or artillery barrage only deal minimal damage. Most major city had fortified underground shelter, heck they even turned the Paris catacombs into a nuclear bunker that can hold whole French Army division. The French even turned the Holland and Belgium into some kind of Fortress Nations (the ony things that prevent the French from doing some takeover was Britain and US protests). They also make an expansive elaborate underground tunnels network than span from Atlantic coast to Mediterranean beaches, Vietcong Style (bonus: They use the excavated dirt from these tunnels to used on Holland land reclamation, so part of Holland are French Soil, pun intended). They are way beyond crazy prepared in the event a war with Reich.
The Reich also fortified their side of border, turning Siegfried Line into maze of Landmines, Big Caliber Guns, Machine Gun Nest, and more. 'Luckily' with TN opened other world to fought for, the war hardy happens now, hardly.
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Aurora Community Game: Allies and Reich in Space. :
Year 2004: Reich in Jupiter. Now what?

Only You can help the Allies conquer the stars! For Freedom and Capitalism!

EuchreJack

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #108 on: September 15, 2012, 12:58:27 am »

Even in our time period, most EU and third-world modern non-US/Russian military hardware (tanks, etc) is French.  They're quite the little arms merchants, and if you can't get enough from the US or Russian, you go to the French.

I've actually been working on an upgunned Victoria design, I just needed to know max weight.  I should have something submitted in a bit.

Here is what I've got:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Adding passive sensors would bring it over the 2500 ton limit, so I left them out.  This design boasts 2 plasma cannonades, armor thickness of 4 (a single hit from one of the Reich's weapons's won't dent it), and greater speed than the average Reich craft.  I'm pretty proud of it, actually.  Hope everyone likes the name!

I was toying with the idea of adding a backup fire control.  Half the size of the one currently installed, it would replace the active sensors, and allow the ship to continue firing (albet at reduced range and accuracy) if the main fire control was destroyed.  For now, I think it's best to keep the active sensors, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.

About fighters: I'm pretty sure you can't refit them, however fighter factories require no retooling time, so it more than makes up for it.  Unlike larger ships, you can create the most modern fighter instantly.

Darkening Kaos

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #109 on: September 15, 2012, 01:54:48 am »

OOC: Bagging the French = Australian passtime/national sport. /OOC


Hmm. Didn't know that about fighters, never got that far into Aurora to have a need to replace those I built. 

Re: Queen Victoria;
What is the speed loss dropping off one engine?
And an AFR of 48%....can we add an Engineering space to cull that back a bit?
Other than that, I think she's a good addition to the datalinks.
Still think we should produce the 1,000 ton version in our yards, get one queen and produce more of our own.  The other we can RP as asking Lockheed to work on a deep space strategic vessel - that will give us plenty of scope for development without our avatars having foreknowledge about JP's.
Logged
So! Failed to make peace, war looms, kill the infidels... what are our plans for the weekend?
The Giant Moles in the caverns of my current fort breed like crazy, even while regularly being decimated by other beasts entering them...

EuchreJack

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #110 on: September 15, 2012, 02:46:42 am »

I'm leary of dropping an engine because I want our ships to have a significant speed advantage over the Reich craft.  Also, dropping an engine reduces speed to 1744 km/s, which is equivalent to the Reich craft, but that doesn't include the speed droppage from adding anything else (such as sensors, engineering bay, or whatever).

We could take off the active sensor and add an engineering bay.  It's dangerous if the ship gets stuck alone, but as you can see from the ship class chose, I see it being used with other, lighter vessels.

Because there are a few things I'd like to see added, I wouldn't suggest our shipyards actually produced the Queen Victoria.  Instead, I'd wait till our shipyards reached 2600 tons (it's not a whole lot more, really) and add an engineering bay and thermal sensors (the thermal sensor would allow us to gather some data on any ship that kills our ships beyond their active range, such as enemy missile ships).

Darkening Kaos

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #111 on: September 15, 2012, 03:12:13 am »

I wasn't suggesting it as a serious change to the design, just theorising.  We could make that part of our civilization M.O. - "Speed Rules" - and pack in absurd numbers of engines just 'cause we can.

But, yeah, we really need to boost our naval yard tonnage a bit so we can get some serious designs together.  I generally don't build ships until the naval yards are up to 10k tons with 2-3 slipways.
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So! Failed to make peace, war looms, kill the infidels... what are our plans for the weekend?
The Giant Moles in the caverns of my current fort breed like crazy, even while regularly being decimated by other beasts entering them...

EuchreJack

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #112 on: September 15, 2012, 04:45:26 am »

It's certainly ok to theorize, I'm not sure on what is best for the designs either.  So far, I've been trying to set our ships to be a bit faster than the Reich craft, but without sacrificing other features.  In the long run, engine technology upgrades will make all our vessels obsolete, as the later engines are exponentially faster.

I just hope my designs get a chance to be tested before they become obsolete, hence my desire to see new systems and fight people that don't have nukes pointed at our heads.

Aboth Ber

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #113 on: September 15, 2012, 10:56:13 am »

@EuchreJack
@DarkeningKaos

Well, any ships bigger than 2500 ton can't be popped out instantly... We can spawn it now without passive sensor and maintenance bay, calling it Prototype Queen Victoria and building the Real Queen Victoria on another day.

We we really need to codify the Doctrine of AN. But as in real world doctrine usually tailored based on enemy doctrine.
Each nations Space Navy doctrine was devised from naval and ground doctrine, so a little sneak peak:
Reich: Missile-Heavy, Laser-Oriented, Large Heavy Armored Missile Capital Ships, escorted by various Smaller Lightly Armored Fast Craft.
UNAC: Since they are not centralized expect the Ship design to not uniformed. They focus on smaller ships since they cannot build large ships (smaller industrial base, late to TN tech)
2 China: You can forget them, they didn't had any space army. But the China had defensive doctrine unknown
how will they using it in Space.

The Reich and Allied Nations are still in Cold War relationship but wars seems unlikely since both nations are currently on draw. It wi different if one of China or UNAC formally joined with one nations to change the balance of power (Both China can't join based on Tianjin Treaty, UNAC wont join because you know they Non-Aligned Countries). So we stuck... at least for now...

From my experience, older ships are still great for guarding Jump Points since the new ships are busy killing liberating Aliens Home Systems. I even still using the old Freighter and Colony Ship 30 years after they built (they use Nuclear Thermal,  my most modern use Internal Fusion), and I use some obsolete colony ships as 'missile decoy' target when I 'send' it to hostile system. So there are no such things as useless ships.

So I will start time increments, here is what I will do, correct me if I'm wrong:

SHIPS:
1. Colony Ship, Troop Transport Ship, and Freighter standby doing nothing.
2. Any Military Ships are going to orbiting Mars on extended orbits, while conducting 'task group training'. (need confirmation)
3. Survey Ship are going to Jupiter. (pray for Corundium)
4. The most fastest ship (except Survey Ship) will pick the Xeno team from Earth and drop them Mars (maybe the Military Ships)

STARTER SHIP (Allies): (need confirmation)
1 Boeing 808 Colony Ship
1 Lockheed C301 Freighter
1 Lockheed C302 Troop Transport Ship
1 BAe Inquirer GeoSurvey Ship
1 Prototype Queen Victoria (need confirmation)
Unused:
1 2500 ton ship bonus
PDC bonus (1200 BP)

STARTER SHIP and PDC (Reich):
2 Schildkröte Hybrid Cargo Ship.
2 Wissen Survey Ship.
2 Eisenmeteor Corvette.
4 Anti-Missile PDCs

EARTH:
Production:
1. Industry: 50% Convert 500 CI to 500 Construction Factory, 50% Convert 500 CI to 500 Mine.
2. Ordnance: Sitting still.
3. Fighter: Produce ? Scout-Fighter. (need confirmation)
Research:
1. 25 Labs: Research Rate 240 CP.
2. 5 Labs: Pebble Bed Reactor.
Shipyard:
1. SpaceArk: Commercial: 25.000 ton: Continual Capacity Expansion. Assigned Class: none
2. Atlantic: Commercial: 10.000 ton: Continual Capacity Expansion. Assigned Class: none
3. Churchill: Naval: 2.500 ton: Continual Capacity Expansion. Assigned Class: none
4. Circle Crop: Naval: 1000 ton: Continual Capacity Expansion. Assigned Class: none --> (produce Victorious Gunboat?)
Ground Training Facilities:
1. GFTF1: Train Garrison Infantry
2. GFTF2: Train Garrison Infantry

LUNA BASE:
None!

MARS TERRITORIES:
None!

Am I missing anything?
If this has been resolved I want to start time increments.
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Aurora Community Game: Allies and Reich in Space. :
Year 2004: Reich in Jupiter. Now what?

Only You can help the Allies conquer the stars! For Freedom and Capitalism!

Darkening Kaos

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #114 on: September 15, 2012, 07:34:18 pm »

Do we want a colony on Mars while we dig up ruins?

If there is no threat to civilian life, then yes, go ahead and use the colony ship to move colonists to Mars, installations might take a while with one freighter, so, they might end up just breeding for a few years.

Do we have enough people to form a survey team that can be dropped off at a moon of Jupiter after it has been scanned from orbit, {assuming it has substantial minerals that would require clarification from a ground-based team.  Any ship can carry a survey team, I believe.}?  Another one on Mars to complete planetary survey?  Use up scientists who, due to lower speciality bonus, might not ever get a chance to work in a lab.

I advocate tooling for the small Victory, but we have few resources at present to enable full-scale production.  As EuchreJack said, real and useful ships should be considered when our naval shipyards enable us to construct larger ships, in the order of >3 ktons, though this is really just to compensate for our level of technology.  We should develop a picket ship to orbit assets we want to keep for ourselves - or just to prevent the Reich from claiming them.

As for Doctrine of the AN.  In the poll, the majority chose Plasma Carronade - we want everything to burn with space-magma(aaaaaaaaa!).  Other aspects will, no doubt, develop over time.
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So! Failed to make peace, war looms, kill the infidels... what are our plans for the weekend?
The Giant Moles in the caverns of my current fort breed like crazy, even while regularly being decimated by other beasts entering them...

EuchreJack

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #115 on: September 15, 2012, 08:14:02 pm »

According to this discussion and this LP, we really don't want a citizens on Mars until we finish evacuating the ruins, as ruins tend to spawn armies of rampaging robots.

I'd suggest prioritizing Mercury and Titan for geosurveying, as they both can sustain human life and aren't covered by our treaties.  While both have rather high colony costs, and Titan will never fall below a certain colony cost, if either has substantial mineral assets then they would be worth grabbing.

Darkening Kaos

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #116 on: September 15, 2012, 08:40:31 pm »

Interesting.
Okay, so no colony on Mars until we've sanitised the ruins - probably the safest route.

Mercury has already been scanned pre-game, go to the bottom of post 55, it's not that interesting, only tritanium and duranium, both difficult to dig out - the planet currently uninhabitable.  The only additional thing we can do is send a planetary survey team just to double check.

Titan is the first target for our survey craft.  Jupiter may have Sorium, but I've had games where it is barren and useless.  Last game I played where I colonised Titan, it had 1m5 corundium, 0,8 Acc.  Over-all, Titan was better for me than Mars.
Logged
So! Failed to make peace, war looms, kill the infidels... what are our plans for the weekend?
The Giant Moles in the caverns of my current fort breed like crazy, even while regularly being decimated by other beasts entering them...

EuchreJack

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #117 on: September 15, 2012, 09:44:55 pm »

I'm all for sending a high-quality team to search Mercury.

Aboth Ber

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #118 on: September 15, 2012, 11:27:13 pm »

Alright I assume I can start time increment.
The survey team will go to Mercury after they finishes the survey on Earth.

Interesting.
Okay, so no colony on Mars until we've sanitised the ruins - probably the safest route.

According to this discussion and this LP, we really don't want a citizens on Mars until we finish evacuating the ruins, as ruins tend to spawn armies of rampaging robots.

I'd suggest prioritizing Mercury and Titan for geosurveying, as they both can sustain human life and aren't covered by our treaties.  While both have rather high colony costs, and Titan will never fall below a certain colony cost, if either has substantial mineral assets then they would be worth grabbing.

Except the fact that Mars ruins are Deserted Intact City that means maybe there are more than 1500 installations. It will take a very long time until it fully exploited.

OK, I set the Survey to go to Saturn. Just if you forget, regarding habitability since I tweak human gravity tolerance Europa, Io, and Callisto can be colonized. Saturn moon Rhea also can be colonized, so does Neptune's Triton and Uranus' Titania. Hopefully the Outer Systems are resource rich else there would be Resource War even before Human had interstellar travel...
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Aurora Community Game: Allies and Reich in Space. :
Year 2004: Reich in Jupiter. Now what?

Only You can help the Allies conquer the stars! For Freedom and Capitalism!

wsoxfan

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Re: Community 4X Game: You Play Aurora: Allies and Reich in Space.
« Reply #119 on: September 15, 2012, 11:40:43 pm »

I'd advocate moving some garrison battalions(once converted) along with the enginners. If possible, it'd be nice to have mobile infantry. Once we have one (prefably both) of the two, I'd declare it safe to begin colonizing.
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