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Author Topic: Simplest Military?  (Read 5055 times)

Supernerd

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2012, 11:42:22 am »

If you want simplicity, I recommend giving all your non important dwarves hunting labors and mass produce crossbows, quivers and bolts. Crossbows can also double as a trade good if you make too many. Traps are also wonderful, and there's no reason not to put them in places other than just the entrance to your fortress.
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websim.ai is coming dangerously close to being able to run Gridhood. Maybe I'll live to see the day if I exercise, eat right, and somehow convince the world's governments not to nuke everyone.

Mushroo

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2012, 11:50:45 am »

One thing that's helped me is I've gotten good at using traps, terrain, bridges and walls to help even the odds a little.

With my current embark, I'm sitting at around 124 dwarves and I have very little dwarves with any base military skill, which is a bit frustrating.  Probably ~30 total I think (18 of which are marksdwarves at least).  However, I've got some nice cage/weapon traps and moats to force them through choke points so that the last few ambushes and sieges have resulted in them getting totally decimated before they even get close.  I'm a bit nervous about a really big siege though.  I'm not too keen on just stuffing unskilled dwarves in the military, but I may not have a choice soon.

30 soldiers is more than enough to handle even the largest siege. I assume you have trained them to Legendary and equipped them with metal weapons and armor using the advice above?
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Berossus

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2012, 12:14:04 pm »

I started in a world without iron... i swear to Armok, i get either flux or iron, never both.
I was stuck with copper, since i couldnt make bronze either...
So what i did was buying all the steel goodies the dwarfs brought, including their anvils, and melt every non armor non weapon item down to make armor and weapons and order everything steel-ish for next year too.
Literally drowning in gold veins helped a lot of course.
(Im serious, my prison has an engraved native gold floor, engraved native gold walls and 8 mastercrafted golden chains in it. My cripples are walking on golden crutches and i only make silver statues to mix in some color to the golden ones. My dining room consists of 80 golden chairs, 80 golden thrones, golden floor and walls with 4 platinum statues in the corners. I randomly select a "crafted goods" bin for each caravan and buy everything i want without even looking at the prices.
But not a single piece of iron in this godforsaken mountain.)
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My son, many speak of the honor in war.
My preferred method is to wait until their back is turned, then impale them with a pike held by someone else.
Preferrably from a distance.

Mushroo

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2012, 12:17:19 pm »

"No iron!!!" is par for the course in the current release of DF. But the caravans should bring enough steel items to equip a small military within a few years.

Be careful with all of that gold; the wealth is going to attract a lot of migrants, sieges, and FUN!
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AmpsterMan

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2012, 12:35:07 pm »

I run a spear military with crossbow support. For every speardorf, two crossbows. My speardorf's are outiftted with the best metal I can give them at the time. My uniforms are set to replace clothing and they carry:
Chain shirt
Chain leggings
High boots
Helm
Cloak
Gauntlets
Shield
Breastplate
Greaves
In that order. I've been able to take care of most baddies with minimal casualties.
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Kumis

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2012, 01:23:54 pm »

I'm still a bit of a dirty newb, so to speed things up a bit and easier try out new ideas I decided to embark on a mineral 'everywhere' world.

No Flux. However, like a few posters above, I have plenty of gold (I also have plenty of iron).
1st immigrant wave, about 7, second immigrant wave, about 7, third immigrant wave, about 35.

I'm also struggling with military, it's usually what I give up on in the end, but this time round I bought all the steel I could, and am about to set up an iron armour and steel weapon force of a few dwarfs.

But then of course you have the weapon trap paradox! High value brings invaders, so build weapon traps to cut 'em into little pieces, each saw is worth about 15k, I currently have 18 of them. On the other hand you can look at it like a baited trap!
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What are you trying to hunt?
Y u no find path?

Berossus

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2012, 01:40:12 pm »

"No iron!!!" is par for the course in the current release of DF. But the caravans should bring enough steel items to equip a small military within a few years.

Be careful with all of that gold; the wealth is going to attract a lot of migrants, sieges, and FUN!

While i have a siege on a yearly basis, usually when i finally cleared all the crap from my entrance, i havent had migrants in 6 or 7 years now.
"your fortress did not attract any migrants this year" is what i get, despite golden statues lining the entryway to the path of armok (my weapon trapped corridor).
i have a created wealth of about 2 million, while my artifact alone would account for several, and now ive started churning out adamantite armor and weapons, having already fully equipped my first squad head to toe.
I have a duchess, but thats basically it... no more migrants, and i could really really use some haulers and new recruits.
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My son, many speak of the honor in war.
My preferred method is to wait until their back is turned, then impale them with a pike held by someone else.
Preferrably from a distance.

Mushroo

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2012, 01:46:05 pm »

Have you exceeded the [POPULATION_CAP] variable in  your /data/init/d_init.txt?
Have your dwarfs stopped reproducing for some reason?
Why do you need new recruits if you have candy-clad legendary warriors?
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Starver

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2012, 02:03:06 pm »

Personally, I don't worry about spamming crafts (not usually encrusted mugs, but loads and loads of mugs, rings, earrings, etc) and raising my invasion-potential, because of my lock-in design, and I get more immigrants!  (Assuming they survive the trip inside, but there's a good chance that they will as that's also part of my planning.)

When you've got loads of immigrants, certainly, and often from about two seasons in, I'll have someone who isn't actually too skilled with a desired civvie skill but either has a definite military skill or can be drafted anyway, without too much worry about civvie skills (save for whatever I decide to give them to keep their off-time happy and productive).  Putting such dwarves in training squads (keeping any family-attached ones in a reserve-as-last-ditch squad, so that the unattached ones can be safely used without risk of sparking a grief-then-tantrum cycle), I find I often get a decent small-squad military.  Sufficient for my purposes.  And crossbows are my forte.

I've more or less perfected (to my satisfaction) a firing range design that means minimum ammo loss (each range is a finger of floor surrounded by channels to each side and behind the target, with walls beyond, so anything but a direct hit on target from the maximum distance hits the walls and falls below to a handy bolt-stockpile) and once anyone training with them has attained enough skill to be destroying their training bolts on the target I can remove them from the range-training squad, and perhaps add them (back to?) the wrestling or even crossbow-hammering squad.  But as I also tend to build overlooks, to deal with any awkward enemies (and give them enough armour to get a good chance against enemy snipers firing back through the fortifications involved), the melee troops rarely get active battlefield practice and the crossbow dwarves only ever get sent into physical contact with a hostile when they're basically doomed.  (Or, in one case, because I'd chipped an amber FB as much as I could possibly do, broken most of its body bits with metal bolts and was bored, so I opened the right lever-controlled drawbridges to get the crossbowdwarf squad in contact and one of them got the final hit that actually killed it.)

But, I do loads of other things, like that whole "isolate behind drawbridges and ditches" thing, that means that this is possible and probably my biggest defensive unit is the current cohort of construction-fulfilling masons, and the occasional mechanic and trap-loader...  If I have to use the military, it's generally because I'm fed up with the stalemate of the trapped enemy (who aren't going anywhere, in or out, and that I can easily bypass by opening a separate route).
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wuphonsreach

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2012, 02:41:26 pm »

Fun suggestion:

Draft your entire town into the army. Everyone is to wear leather armor and carry a crossbow.

In case of emergencies, Instant musket lines.

Just don't set them to train.

Also refer to this thread:

Militia Defense: Giving EVERYONE Crossbows
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113308.0
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Sutremaine

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2012, 04:31:55 pm »

also what do you mean ''These train slower but are invulnerable''???
They're not glass cannons. Give a pair of dwarves weapons and they'll gain weapon skill very, very quickly but have little defensive capacity and their secondary attacks (biting, punching, shield bashing etc.) will be totally ineffective. Since the hauling update made the Armour User skill much more important, you can't swaddle your recruits in steel because they'll move and attack at about 2/3 speed.

If you have dwarves train weaponless during the first couple of years, they'll have decent defences and will be much more likely to survive their first goblin squad. Whichever method you choose, you still need to control the battlefield until they're at about level 10 in shield and armour. Glass cannon or tank, if the dwarf dies you lose all the time you spent training.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Mishrak

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2012, 05:24:36 pm »

One thing that's helped me is I've gotten good at using traps, terrain, bridges and walls to help even the odds a little.

With my current embark, I'm sitting at around 124 dwarves and I have very little dwarves with any base military skill, which is a bit frustrating.  Probably ~30 total I think (18 of which are marksdwarves at least).  However, I've got some nice cage/weapon traps and moats to force them through choke points so that the last few ambushes and sieges have resulted in them getting totally decimated before they even get close.  I'm a bit nervous about a really big siege though.  I'm not too keen on just stuffing unskilled dwarves in the military, but I may not have a choice soon.

30 soldiers is more than enough to handle even the largest siege. I assume you have trained them to Legendary and equipped them with metal weapons and armor using the advice above?

Not exactly.  My archers have the best skills of anyone, but only 2 are high master with the rest somewhere in between.  Unless there's a dramatically superior method for raising melee units skill, it's going to take a very very long time to accomplish getting them to legendary.  I have a shooting gallery for archers, but I've not done very much for melee other than just barracks.  I do have a full set of iron everything on my guys though. 
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Mushroo

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2012, 06:02:27 pm »

Legendary should only take 1 year, 2 years tops. Lots of how-to's on these forums if you're not sure how to do it. :)
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Sutremaine

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2012, 06:07:12 pm »

Legendary in what though?
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Simplest Military?
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2012, 06:29:02 pm »

Easy, crafting via moods!

If you're in immediate danger and/or don't mind exploits, find some way to repeatedly jab the dwarves with blunt sticks.
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