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[Scoops Novel]

Well, we have fortress mode, we have adventurer mode, someone was going to suggest the aptly named god mode sooner or later xD. I've seen a certain clamouring now that we're nearing the army arc for starting off at that level, rather then the current outpost beginnings. On the other hand, when the army arc comes about, at certain levels of power it will be almost inevitable that your going to have some dwarfs squalled away somewhere, though of course i expect there to be proportionally huge threats. Thus, an idea. Coming into being at a time of your choice, whether at the start of the world or in the middle of it, you are a god, initially at least of the dwarfs. Your goal is a blend between that of fortress mode and adventurer mode, except that you are now attempting to ensure your own survival and worship at the same time as building up, securing, sciencing and possibly looking after your worshipers. What makes it interesting is that you have competition, some weaker and some far more powerful, some who may even have created you or be part of your own nastily divine family, as well as the little fact that your control is limited, depending on how venerated and free-spirited your worshipers are and the might you have attained. You'd be able to shape the world if you were strong enough, or become a weak and fragile avatar on the lower rungs, perhaps even simply a ghost hoping for a open-minded or easily dominated soul to chance on one of your forgotten temples. You'd balance the relationships of your followers, their alliances and your fellow gods, fell creatures and artifacts, all the while trying to master the element you've ended up with it and use it to your advantage.

It would also be one of the potential, (as it would not necessarily happen, but be one of many possible occurrences) hopefully multiple ways fortress mode would become ever more of a challenge. One day, when your dwarves in their foolishness begin to take elation in their success and become thankful for it, you will be born, shaped by their past and their hopes and dreams, being born to one of the other gods, or simply attracted to a people that has grown great from elsewhere. This would, of course, not be restricted to empires alone, as even a continually successful fortress may create you in their foolishness, and though somewhat dictated by the nature of your followers and the scale of your success, would also have a hefty degree of randomization, drawing from your origins, parentage, regions, enemy's and failings, so even a utopia might have a god who must rely on his wits and not his brawn or a small gathering of settlements a god strongest when manifested in the mortal realm.

Which brings me to my next point; you and your powers will be called on often, and whether you leave your pathetic followers to their leavings and conserve your strength or attempt to right every wrong will be a pressing concern. The most pressing of cases may even call for an avatar, or indeed your personal manifestation if the need calls for it.  With this in mind, being a demigod in adventure mode would really mean something, and just as much for a god themselves. You might be trapped in this form, or get inventive with your approach, or even scare away the worshipers who cannot believe in your physical presence, or worse, your imperfections from what they were led to believe by their priests. The interaction with other deitys would be the really interesting part to me however, be it through cosmic games of chess, house pollitics or a war to shake time and space itself.

I could ramble on and on about this, but the point is introducing another level of potential challenge, (as i should restate that this is far from a guaranteed outcome, merely one of many the game could throw at you), as well as starting point, to long term fortress mode, amongst others of equal grandeur (such as refusing to manifest a god and having the magical and angry deity fallout, or otherworldly visitors, or a reshaping of the world, or beginning to lose control of your dwarves, or other game changers). Your thoughts are more then welcome.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Meh.

1. Taking on an existing major figure is bound to have problems, and adding new gods out of the ether doesn't seem to fit DF's style.
2. Being a god, period, gives you a certain immortality and omnipotence (or at least power) that seems to violate DF's motto of "Losing is Fun."
3. We all know we'd just wipe out all life on the planet.

These are just the basic, surface issues.

[Neonivek]

Meh.

1. Taking on an existing major figure is bound to have problems, and adding new gods out of the ether doesn't seem to fit DF's style.
2. Being a god, period, gives you a certain immortality and omnipotence (or at least power) that seems to violate DF's motto of "Losing is Fun."
3. We all know we'd just wipe out all life on the planet.

These are just the basic, surface issues.

You are sort of mixing up a god and a omnipotent omnisentient god. Common confusion.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Well, define the abilities of a god. For now we know:

-Cannot be killed.
-Can give curses to mortals that displease them somehow.
-Can convince mortals to raise temples and armies in their name, and so we can infer...
-Can do some kinds of miracles.

[Neonivek]

Well, define the abilities of a god. For now we know:

-Cannot be killed.
-Can give curses to mortals that displease them somehow.
-Can convince mortals to raise temples and armies in their name, and so we can infer...
-Can do some kinds of miracles.

Actually we do not know if gods cannot be killed and even then we do not know if they cannot be disabled.

As well the mortals have done most of their worshipping on their own so far anyway.

Also a curse is sort of a miracle as it is.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Have you ever seen a god killed, even when the rest of the world has been dead for ten thousand years save for mere animals?

That happened to me once, with accidentally removing caverns from the advanced worldgen and having it generate 10,000 years. One kobold civ, one dwarven civ, both starved within a few years. The gods? They were hunky-dory, watching a parade of allegedly-significant animals settle in lairs and die of old age.
Mortals are unlikely to worship a deity which won't give them anything over a dragon or demon or something which will kill them if they don't worship it, and can use some supernatural abilities besides.
Curses, miracles, just proves my point.

Okay...
My first original point was never addressed in either part.
My second was only partly addressed, and that assumes that the gods are using the full extent of their power (or close to it) right now.
My third was not touched.
There are still other points.

-How the heck would you manage to simulate a world of mortals in anywhere NEAR the level of detail Toady would want, especially once we reach situations involving player-created forts and adventurers?
-How would you convince the player to do what the mortals want? Again, DF gods don't seem very dependent on prayer as of yet, and they might never be. Even if they are, there's always the ever-popular "no more flooding of the entire earth if you worship me, just flooding parts of it" promise (or a variation thereof).
-How could you simulate the abilities a true god should have?
-How would you simulate realistic rebellious worshipers? That's pretty important, as aside from the direct intervention of another god they're the only challenge you'll get.
-How would you make "God Mode" fun, Fun, and interesting?
-Above all...Why? DF lacks a god game mode, but it also lacks MMORPG and FPS modes; should we give it those, too? Running a fortress is as close to being a god as DF needs to be.

[Neonivek]

A mode where you play a god believe it or not is in the Devs. As well I don't have to touch upon all your points, that was never required in this conversation.

In fact I don't have to touch upon any of your points.

A MODE WHERE YOU PLAY A GOD IS IN THE DEVS as in at one point Toady decided it was a good idea.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Where?

[Neonivek]

DEITY: Have religions in the game correspond to forces or deities and let you play one and do whatever you like, possibly restricted by your defining characteristics and geography. Related to Bloat344, Bloat376, Bloat377, Bloat382, PowerGoal64, PowerGoal75, PowerGoal82, PowerGoal86, PowerGoal90, PowerGoal105, PowerGoal109, PowerGoal113, PowerGoal118, PowerGoal122, PowerGoal125, PowerGoal135, PowerGoal139, PowerGoal141 and PowerGoal146.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hm. In that case, this thread is superfluous.

[Neonivek]

Hm. In that case, this thread is superfluous.

Expanding on a concept that will be in the game eventually is hardly superfluous.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Well, unless he actually said something novel that I missed, he's mostly just stating the obvious.

[Scoops Novel]

Can you link me to that extensive development plan? I've been trying to find it again for a while. Also, i like the sound of forces. I admit, self-evidence was something i thought might be a failing of this post (yes, i noticed the pun :L), but better to flesh out the obvious then be harangued by questions. Bear in mind i was unaware of this development goal, as it's not clearly shown on the site. The main point, however, was that this mode would be defined as much if not more by your limits rather then your capabilities.

[Owlbread]

Well, unless he actually said something novel that I missed, he's mostly just stating the obvious.

I don't mean to make things personal here, but you're not exactly being very nice. I've noticed that for quite a while now. This thread may very well be superfluous, but that doesn't mean you have to put it like that. I don't know if English is your first language, but there are nicer ways of putting things. Replying to something someone has obviously spent quite a lot of time writing with "Meh." is just nasty.

On topic, I really like the idea of playing as a God, but particularly the connection between the avatars and demigods. I think we should be able to have demigod characters that aren't avatars of Gods but are still godlike e.g. Hercules, but it would be nice to be able to play in this "God Mode" and send down an avatar to the world below, allowing us to play something similar to adventure mode. As an idea, perhaps demigods could have special powers too besides being unusually strong - remember Achilles?

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'm blunt. That's probably among my biggest flaws.
I understand he spent a lot of time on this, but A. I come up with suggestions and think of the details in my mind's spare time while I'm doing other things, and B. If I wrote a 10-paragraph essay on adding multiplayer or slavery to DF, how would I be received? The length and detail of an entry is not always proportionate to the amount of time spent specifically on it, and hardly at all with the quality.
I could find nothing much to say about the details, so I pointed out the issues with the whole thing. Bluntly.

Demigods would, ideally, have some actual connection to the divine someday. When that happens, you'd probably play as a mostly-normal adventurer, just more powerful and more bound to your divine parent.
Playing as an avatar of a god sounds more interesting than playing as a god itself. After all, the avatar is, essentially, the god, so the avatar could probably call down the god's power.