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[Splint]

That'd be fun. Attack my slave army!

[IamanElfCollaborator]

Let me fix that for you.

That'd be fun. Attack my legion of useless enslaved meatbags!

[Splint]

That would imply I'm sending my own people mixed in there. Screw that, I have slaves to send instead! Except the champion. He's one of mine and a badass witha halberd.

[IamanElfCollaborator]

No, no, no.
Your own people are meatbags who do it out of free will!
Your slaves do it because they get...well, whatever human slaves get when you don't haz access to magma.

[Synner]

Holy shit you guys took over this and ran far! i'm so proud.

Thanks to the help of you guys i created the raws for a playable human fort with no outstanding problems so far (to be uploaded as soon as i get home) including the missing items, reactions, jobs, nobles and the like along with the renaming by Splint and me.

Now the serious bussines, let's make humans unique! sawmill and slaves included (slavery seems to be perfectly reasonable for humans according to the raws and adventure mode), limitations on minning skills should offset the advantages since being poor diggers is kind of a big deal in a world where the surface wants to kill you so fucking bad.

[Wrex]

Holy shit you guys took over this and ran far! i'm so proud.

Thanks to the help of you guys i created the raws for a playable human fort with no outstanding problems so far (to be uploaded as soon as i get home) including the missing items, reactions, jobs, nobles and the like along with the renaming by Splint and me.

Now the serious bussines, let's make humans unique! sawmill and slaves included (slavery seems to be perfectly reasonable for humans according to the raws and adventure mode), limitations on minning skills should offset the advantages since being poor diggers is kind of a big deal in a world where the surface wants to kill you so fucking bad.

Ever seen Meph's human buildings? We could adapt those. See, he has building that let you do the mining for you. All it would take is a pick for a reagent, which is preserved, and has a small chance of spawning most stones and ores, so you get a random selection of underground material that is tightly controlled.

Actually, we could go whole hog and make it a masterwork plugin!

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98196.6720 Scroll down, and you have the workshops, already coded. No reactions yet, but it looks like he wanted a primarily market based economy for humans, and they had superior gun technology to dwarves, such as the hand cannon.

[Splint]

Depends on where you settle and overall they're already poorer diggers as they seem to move slower underground (compared to dwarves or goblins who don't seem to have any problems,) Unless they're hauling stuff. They don't really need any skill handicaps anyway since unless you're building something requiring alot of stone you'd probably only be mining for ores, not for building materials like dwarves.

As far as unique, I gave them a roman/european middle ages theme for weaponry and armor. I can provide the raws for these if you'd like.

Weapons
Poleaxe - replaces halberd and greataxe.
Fighting Pick - replaces warhammer - has the spike, hammerhead, shaft and pommel to whack things with, and it's a very good disabling weapon, along with scoring killshots on poorly protected targets.
Gladius/Spatha - Replaces long/short swords. I included the Spatha because I like to give squad leaders distinguishing gear.
Claymore - Obviously a stand in for the 2 hander
Hasta - small pike that can be used with a shield; the weapon of the roman triarii units.
Nightstick - replaces the mace/flail. Added a wooden one for the town watch.

Armor
Lorica Segmentata - Protection of a breast plate with the coverage of a mail shirt. Provides good protection.
Curriase - I think that's the name. Added by a friend. Bulky heavy armor with protection to the entire upper body + neck. costs 9 bars to make, 18 with adamantine. Even more resource intensive if using chalbys.
Scutum - Classic roman tower shield. Very high blockchance. Base shields have been renamed to round shields.
Galea - Roman legionaire's helmet. Replaces cap/regular helm
Plumed galea - Just another theme thing


Metals
Chalbys - Latin for steel. Basically worse than dwarven steel but better than iron. requires same resources for an inferior product basically, at least compared to dwarven steel. It's a weapons grade metal, and considering making it only weapons grade, not armor grade. However, with the recent fix for trade, humans can still import dwarven steel.

As far as a good settlement, I'm playing as a dead civ at present but I can post screenies of what I was able to do with them. (regular and stonesense if you like.)

[smakemupagus]

interested to see how it turns out.  Feel free to take a look at the Dwarven Guilds / Orcish Freelancers reactions in Orc Fortress if you decide to implement market economy.

[Synner]

Splint yeah, please post dem raws even if the names would have to be changed to keep the vanilla feel... you see, where dwarves have skill and elves have magic humans have size, and possibly ingenuity, there's no need to make them italian! plus i would feel bad watching how idiotically unorganized are my praetorians with the current way fights work.

Now, some items of war need a certain stature to function properly, namely longbows for a common example, DF already gives us a mechanic allowing only characters of certain size to wield some weapons and the thing humans have in the DF universe is size, Dwarves are obviously short stocky beards that walk and drink, elves are short AND skinny phytophiles, goblins are short devils and kobolds... well they're shorter, obviously this can't go unoticed and unexploited.

These are just ideas, i welcome sugestions on how to advance.

Holy shit you guys took over this and ran far! i'm so proud.

Thanks to the help of you guys i created the raws for a playable human fort with no outstanding problems so far (to be uploaded as soon as i get home) including the missing items, reactions, jobs, nobles and the like along with the renaming by Splint and me.

Now the serious bussines, let's make humans unique! sawmill and slaves included (slavery seems to be perfectly reasonable for humans according to the raws and adventure mode), limitations on minning skills should offset the advantages since being poor diggers is kind of a big deal in a world where the surface wants to kill you so fucking bad.

Ever seen Meph's human buildings? We could adapt those. See, he has building that let you do the mining for you. All it would take is a pick for a reagent, which is preserved, and has a small chance of spawning most stones and ores, so you get a random selection of underground material that is tightly controlled.

Actually, we could go whole hog and make it a masterwork plugin!

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98196.6720 Scroll down, and you have the workshops, already coded. No reactions yet, but it looks like he wanted a primarily market based economy for humans, and they had superior gun technology to dwarves, such as the hand cannon.

You just blew my mind, i had no idea you could mod stuff like that, makes so many things possible and Masterwork is CRAZY, the boiling stone is just great, you can create "castes" without actually touching the castes, like a bunch of blind siege operators and shit like that.

PS: Splint, again, post dem caps, ASCII is better so everything's clear (seriously? i just wrote that a bunch of letters and jiberish is clearer than a real pixel-based image? DF what have you done to me) but both would be perfect.

[Wrex]

I'm certainly willing to help, when all's said and done, just a warning though, I am better at conceptual moding than the actual implentation.

Shoot me a PM any time you want to talk, I'm game.

[Synner]

interested to see how it turns out.  Feel free to take a look at the Dwarven Guilds / Orcish Freelancers reactions in Orc Fortress if you decide to implement market economy.

Missed your post, tomorrow i'll check them out, uniqueness while keeping the vanilla feel is the point, there are already a lot of mods that give us japanese humans, norse humans, now roman humans and all that, this is going to be vanilla humans but with character and not simply tall dorfs.

I'm certainly willing to help, when all's said and done, just a warning though, I am better at conceptual moding than the actual implentation.

Shoot me a PM any time you want to talk, I'm game.

As long as you consider the limitations of our skills and what DF can do, creativity is always higly apreciated.

[Splint]

gotta stay to the surface for that, though the caverns can be quite the profitable venture for the animal trade. I swaped the weapons around really just because they have access to EVERYTHING, many of them redundant because they suffer hit pentalties with shields. So I whittled it down mostly. I've played with them nearly totally vanilla in all respects except being made playable and being given a few reactions (pearlash and coke making basically) and they play great, but the they move slower underground than dwarves and seem to drink much more frequently.  Because mining for building materials isn't really the human thing to do except for hardened structures, they'll need the sawmill thing though.

Also to play less like dwarves, no rediculous deathtraps or reliance upon them. Either button up or kick thier ass the old fashioned way: With soldiers and a shitload of fighting animals. three dedicated soldiers, barring enemy rangers, can decimate enemy ambushes and humans can't even trance; they also seem to be generally more resiliant as I've had humans survive shit that would kill dwarves or keep them in the hospital (a halberdier walking around with an arrow in her shoulder for four years springs to mind.) This may be because of thier size though, which also give them an edge against the likes of goblins and kobolds. However, an extremly elite milita clad in masterwork steel and adamantine of humans can and will succumb when over run by sheer numbers.

Fun fact: Humans are defaulted to steel if they lack access to iron ore, which is rather strange.

[Wrex]

Masterwork humans have access to steel (but Masterwork has stuff better than steel...), but are also masters of the art of creating plate mail, enchanting wepaonry, and forging guns. Dwarves require blueprints, purchased from humans, to make these buildings. They also produce the best shields in the game, the tower shield.


If you want to do it the most extreme way possible, refuse to let them have picks, and make them use the quarry and mine to procure ores and stones.

[Splint]

Well his aim is mostly vanilla, not masterwork type stuff.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Dwarves also get steel without iron.