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[HraTaika]

So I don't really like that pink color of hammer lords.. so I figured I'd use mace dwarves instead.

But I was wondering how do they compare?

[i2amroy]

Maces have a slightly large contact area, so they will be slightly less powerful and more likely to glance off of armor. It's a fairly small difference though, so a group of mace-lords should be fairly comparable to a group of hammerlords.

[Alastar]

Twice the mass, twice the contact area.
Practical difference is rather small, so while I did a lot of testing I'm certain of very little. Some conjectures:

- maces seem strictly better for sufficiently strong wielders.
- if maces aren't strictly better, they tend to fall behind as can openers (while remaining ahead against beasts and unarmoured humanoids).
- if maces aren't strictly better, they seem to favour tough (as opposed to dense) materials.

[Hyndis]

Blunt weapons are great against dwarf-sized creatures or slightly larger. Against huge creatures which are too big to have their skulls caved in, or against creatures that don't have brains, you still need edged weapons.

I'd recommend keeping a reserve of dwarves with edged weapons, such as swords, axes, or picks. A mining pick is a fearsome weapon in the hands of a legendary+5 miner.

Against a goblin siege, maces or hammers will cause plenty of carnage, but if a bronze colossus shows up your blunt weapons will be next to useless.

[DavionFuxa]

Maces tend to make for powerful weapons against non-armored opponents. I once had a MaceDwarf Adventurer and he pretty well ransacked a Kobold Cave by just beating up everything with a Mace. When he reached the Caverns below and met a Troll, he quickly downed the beast in a single hit as well due to my Dwarf becoming so strong and having become a Mace Lord.

However, if I had gone against armored targets that were around my size then it would likely have been a different story. Maces don't work too well against armored targets and against bigger opponents your going to have more difficulty with getting in those shots that will either stun or incapacitate the enemy your fighting. That's where you'll want a Hammer.

Also yes, remember that Edged Weaponry sometimes are more useful too.

[Alastar]

Blunt weapons are mostly useful against armoured humanoids, and there is little practical difference between hammers and maces.
Anything will do against unarmoured humanoids, and everything else is quicker/more reliable at rendering them harmless. Hammers and maces are both very bad against large beasts and most weird things.
They may have some merit when reanimating bits are an issue, even when they're not the most efficient weapon in the fight itself.

Hammers may be slightly better at penetrating armour if the wielder is relatively weak, but maces are still can openers and dubious for almost anything else. Dwarves don't really need can openers in vanilla because most invaders have unarmoured choppable limbs.
And even if we want anti-armour equipment, pillaged whips or morningstars would be the way to go.

[HraTaika]

Sounds all good.

So bacically I could go on just with axe and spear dwarves?

[DavionFuxa]

In the grand scheme of things, probably not. Certain weapons will undoubtedly work better on certain targets - you shouldn't be dealing with undead in an Evil 'Reanimating' Biome with an Edged Weapon because you'll get tonnes of appendages reanimating and more work for your Butcher to do; but you should use an Edged Weapon to deal with the Elephant or Dragon running amok because a Bludgeoning weapon will amount to little more then bruises.

It's like any other game where you need to diversify what you attack things with, as certain weapons will be more effective then others in certain situations.

[Hyndis]

The best solution really seems to be just make a variety of melee weapons. Make hammers, maces, swords, axes, and spears.

Then allow dwarves to pick whatever melee weapon they want to use. By random chance of personal preference you will end up with a good selection of diverse weapons.

[Alastar]

Sounds all good.

So bacically I could go on just with axe and spear dwarves?

Yes, with 2 caveats:
1) Some ranged support is useful
2) Mining picks are worth consideration as very powerful general purpose weapons

[HraTaika]

Sounds all good.

So bacically I could go on just with axe and spear dwarves?

Yes, with 2 caveats:
1) Some ranged support is useful
2) Mining picks are worth consideration as very powerful general purpose weapons

Aye, I've got two full squads of good marksdwarves and figured I'd go for an extra four full squads of melee dwarves. There just is something .. deeply addicting in melee carnage.

But.. picks eh? Sounds pretty good! How do those picks compare to other weapons and what color do they change your dwarves to? Do they stay grey?

[AutomataKittay]

Sounds all good.

So bacically I could go on just with axe and spear dwarves?

Yes, with 2 caveats:
1) Some ranged support is useful
2) Mining picks are worth consideration as very powerful general purpose weapons

Aye, I've got two full squads of good marksdwarves and figured I'd go for an extra four full squads of melee dwarves. There just is something .. deeply addicting in melee carnage.

But.. picks eh? Sounds pretty good! How do those picks compare to other weapons and what color do they change your dwarves to? Do they stay grey?

Pick compared fairly well last time I used it in 31., not too disimilar from combined axe and spear. I doubt material system's changed too much in 34. and I've not really looked to see what color they turned, probably same one as wrestler since pick is a misc weapon that uses mining skill.

[GiglameshDespair]

Picks can be devastating weapons. I've seen a dwarf take off an arm with a pick before. Of course, miners are also really strong and tough from mining, so that helps. Provide them with armour and you have a pretty damn useful squad ready to go.

Conscripting miners is always useful in a pinch. Actually, would conscripting a miner give a negative thought, if mining is also a weapon skill?

OT: I've never seen a practical difference between maces and hammers. I always have spears and picks to deal with armoured enemies. and swords to deal with non-armoured. There doesn't seem to be much beneft to using blunt weapon in my view.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Miners have a bunch of big military advantages past skill. For instance, their contact area is small enough to poke at vitals from armor but often big enough to cut limbs off. They've also got good velocity and penetration modifiers, and DF doesn't yet simulate their downsides. Also, they don't have any blunt attacks dwarves would otherwise occasionally waste time with.

[HraTaika]

Of course, miners are also really strong and tough from mining, so that helps.

I was under the impression that only military training currently increases stats?

Sounds all good.

So bacically I could go on just with axe and spear dwarves?

Yes, with 2 caveats:
1) Some ranged support is useful
2) Mining picks are worth consideration as very powerful general purpose weapons

Aye, I've got two full squads of good marksdwarves and figured I'd go for an extra four full squads of melee dwarves. There just is something .. deeply addicting in melee carnage.

But.. picks eh? Sounds pretty good! How do those picks compare to other weapons and what color do they change your dwarves to? Do they stay grey?

Pick compared fairly well last time I used it in 31., not too disimilar from combined axe and spear. I doubt material system's changed too much in 34. and I've not really looked to see what color they turned, probably same one as wrestler since pick is a misc weapon that uses mining skill.

The pick idea is very nice indeed, I kinda like the grey color of recruits so if they stay grey that would be awesome. I also very much like the idea of miner warriors, though isn't there somesort of conflict with miners in military?

Other than that, I'll probably go for the maces dwarves just because the red color is just so much more human to look at, as there apparently ain't much difference in there.

Am I the only one who dislikes that pink color of hammerdwarves? Also, anybody have trouble actually seeing axedwarves due to the dark blue color?