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[Tiruin]

"What's the deal with you knights and swords?"

"Poke, poke. Stab, stab."

"Why not swish-swish?"

"We aren't that crude."

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (3) - wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, kingfisher1112
• kingfisher1112 (3) - Kamin, vodot, webadict
• webadict (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Nerjin

Between the hour of the Lynx and the Falcon.

((Day 2 will end at September 19, 2012 [Wednesday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

31 hours, 51 minutes and 32 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 2
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you use it on the first try, it seems))

[kingfisher1112]

Alright. Think about it like this. And I apologise for the nastiness. Im sorry, and it shouldn't have slipped in there. It was pretty rude.
Post #129, the one Kamin Crusade begins on Vodot. In this post, he is Thinking scum hunting is a scum tell, and trying to start a wagon.
Post #151 Begins the ' Vodot hates IC's campaign.
P #155 Slips In a few little ' I'm town don't lynch me guize' beacons. I've seen him do this a few times. Do you think adding in a thing seemingly taunting the scum really increases your authenticity? Really?
P #168 nothing special.
P#170 This is... A strange post. Another little beacon of fake towniness. Saying ' I HOPE I DON'T GET NKED' *Wink* Is pretty scummy.
P#190 The crusade continues. I am starting to see perhaps an eleborate ploy by the scumteam of Kamin/Vodot. Infact,Vodot, why the sudden change in heart to the person who has had it in for you the entire game?
P#203 The insults fly, weakly attacking Vodot's Defence by trying to make it go away.
P#207 Only now when he says he's seeing about your posts, you decide to call him out on his 'OMGUS'.
P#260 The tide turns, and Kamin shuts the hell up. Then, he sees my vote and goes ' Easy Pickings' Please, if my case is crap look at Jim's. One line and a vote.

@Everybody: Lurking implies that I'm there, and I'm just sitting back. I'm Australian. Geez.
Also, @Vodot:
EXPLAIN THE FONT SIZE AND SUDDEN CHANGE OF HEART
And a complete reversal from riding you too hard to completely sucking up is a scum tell. He desperately wants your vote on his side.

@Wsoxfan I really should have done that.
@ Webadict: That is a shameless bandwagon jump there. Your case is more crap than mine. I am trying. I am trying as hard as I bloody can to prove my case.

[webadict]

@ Webadict: That is a shameless bandwagon jump there. Your case is more crap than mine. I am trying. I am trying as hard as I bloody can to prove my case.

Oh, I don't disagree. But it got what it needed - it got you to start making a case. But how you managed to come to vodot is beyond me. Like, vodot is pretty much confirmed town to me, so you're going to have to make a really big effort to convince me. I don't have much time, but I will comment a bit when I get back.

[kingfisher1112]

Vodot and Kamin seem to have gone from ' I HATE YOU ' To ' I LOVE YOU '. It is just way too schizophrenic.

[vodot]

EXPLAIN THE FONT SIZE AND SUDDEN CHANGE OF HEART

Nah, I did both already.

My "Change of Heart" would make a lot more sense to you if you were town, King.  I'm not on a crusade.  And I don't care if anyone else is. I rage for a reason: to expose scum.  He changed his attitude, engaged the town, and responded.  Why press him further if I now think he's telling town in a big way?  If the whole purpose of my anti-Kamin "four points" post ends up just being to wheel out the bandwagon for you to scummily pounce on, I'm actually ok with that. 

I still believe what I said about Kamin, but he explained more to me with his change of attitude than he probably would've if he had tried to refute my four points.  You attitude, though, is pretty much the same... and you're walking down a familiar road with this "look at that scummier guy over there!" post.

[kingfisher1112]

So. You think it is not a scum tell for some dude to have a murderboner for lynching you the entire game and when he is on the block turning round and saying 'Hey bro don't lynch me bro that dude over there lynch him bro' That is a sign of
A) Desperate Scum
B) Bad Desperate Town
C) Desperate Power Role
66% chance Kamin is someone we do not want.

[webadict]

So. You think it is not a scum tell for some dude to have a murderboner for lynching you the entire game and when he is on the block turning round and saying 'Hey bro don't lynch me bro that dude over there lynch him bro' That is a sign of
A) Desperate Scum
B) Bad Desperate Town
C) Desperate Power Role
66% chance Kamin is someone we do not want.

Okay. I'm gonna have to cut you off here.

See, you're literally doing the same thing you're accusing Kamin of doing. Not only that, but you're trying to dodge your lynch by pushing everyone's attention away from you. Like, that's a really dumb move.

Not only that, but you not only just used the worst statistics I've ever seen, but you got them wrong even with your wrong stats! You're saying that town is something we want? Or is it power role? Or is it scum? Not sure, but only 1 of those 3 are apparently what we want. The other 2 are bad...? No, not only that though, but it's not even a 66% chance Kamin is something we don't want. That statistic proves nothing. That's like me voting you saying I have a 2 in 6 shot of being right, except for the technicality where I'd actually be correct for the wrong reasons.

But, I've got some time. Here we go:

Post #129, the one Kamin Crusade begins on Vodot. In this post, he is Thinking scum hunting is a scum tell, and trying to start a wagon.
Post #151 Begins the ' Vodot hates IC's campaign.
P #155 Slips In a few little ' I'm town don't lynch me guize' beacons. I've seen him do this a few times. Do you think adding in a thing seemingly taunting the scum really increases your authenticity? Really?
P#170 This is... A strange post. Another little beacon of fake towniness. Saying ' I HOPE I DON'T GET NKED' *Wink* Is pretty scummy.
P#190 The crusade continues. I am starting to see perhaps an eleborate ploy by the scumteam of Kamin/Vodot. Infact,Vodot, why the sudden change in heart to the person who has had it in for you the entire game?
P#203 The insults fly, weakly attacking Vodot's Defence by trying to make it go away.
P#207 Only now when he says he's seeing about your posts, you decide to call him out on his 'OMGUS'.
P#260 The tide turns, and Kamin shuts the hell up. Then, he sees my vote and goes ' Easy Pickings' Please, if my case is crap look at Jim's. One line and a vote.

So... let me get this straight...

Vodot is scum.
Kamin is scum.
Jim is scum.
webadict is scum.

4 man scumteam? Or am I misconstruing what exactly you're blaming everyone for. All I can tell is that you're attacking anyone that doesn't agree with you. Also, that everyone's case is terrible. Yet, I've found nothing in your case that vodot should be lynched, which is ironic considering that you're pretty sure he's scum.

Except, I've got a better theory.

You don't believe vodot is scum. If you did, you would have voted him. Instead, you believe that continuing to vote Kamin will save your life, considering that he and you are tied. At this point, your only real hope of living is to prove that Kamin is scum, which is why you've suddenly jumped toward him, and you've gone about doing exactly what you're blaming him of doing.

I've pretty much solidified the opinion that vodot is unlynchable. This is undeniable given Kamin's attempts plus the lack of other voters for him. That means jumping on him won't let you live.

So, why not webadict? He's a pretty easy target. You're actually testing the waters by pointing out scummy things he does, yet don't pursue in vain, as going after me loses the tie that's barely saving your neck, and you've got no real support, except for your partner.

So, you've decided to throw Kamin under the bus. Kamin, however, isn't your scumbuddy. That'd be too simplistic. Jim is a possibility, but he'd be far more eager to play if that were the case. vodot is town, simple as that. That leaves two left: wsoxfan and Nerjin. While I'd certainly love to save it's wsoxfan, the far likelier scumbuddy is Nerjin, as King as pretty much left him to be. Lurking, of course, is not good. And he hasn't bothered to try to get Nerjin's attention. I mean, the guy he should be reaching out to that hasn't voted? Man, that'd be a pretty good guy to try to get to vote, wouldn't it?

Except, scum aren't that willing to help their buddies. It brings too much attention. Therefore, the scum are kingfish1112 and Nerjin.

And that's what I think.

[Nerjin]

Well… Now I feel bad for not scum-hunting as hard as I should be. However with others doing the work [sorry guys next day I will try to do a bit more than re-iterated arguments] I’ll say my theories:
 

You never answered my question in post #190. Also, you completely ignored me when I prodded you to answer my question, when I tried to grab your attention in post #203. King... Nor did you refrain from bandwagoning when it seemed convenient. Jim voted me to get me to talk and pay attention--that's my guess. But you? You're just hopping on the Lynch Mobile. I think that's the most compelling thing that's happened all game. Aside from your nice ABC list. Vodot is actually doing something. It may be overkill, but it's still really active and he is working hard to make his case. That is respectable. What you are doing, King, is not. It's what I'd expect from your ilk. Oh, and what was this little gem?

So why have you so suddenly switched attitudes again? I can understand respect but I don’t believe you answered his post. Why aren’t you trying to convince us you’re not scum?

Kamin.
Your constant
A) Accusing people of 'Witchunting'
B) Pointless Arguments
And C) General tying to appear town in The worst ways possible
Has earned you a vote.

Band-wagoning right? Mafia is a witch-hunt so accusing people of it is redundant but not much of a scum-tell. Unless I’m mistaken as what you meant. However C caught my attention more than the other two. What does trying to look town have to do with being scum? You seem to be trying awfully hard to do it yourself. Is Kamin acting towny to save his life? Are you? Maybe expand on those points a bit.

Congrats, you've just taken the bait.

As Jim has asked: What Bait? I saw no bait?...

IC's, I would like to hear come cold-blooded analysis on this Kamin/King situation during our extension.  This isn't MYLO, so my though is that it is perfectly safe to mislynch here and then reanalyze after the flip.  Yes?

Safe yes. Approved? No. Why would you be so okay with a mislynch? A mislynch should never be acceptable. You should go after who you are SURE is scum. Being so laissez-faire about it strikes an odd tone for a town to take.

1. In post 65, Kamin voluntarily answers my opened-ended question from the scum perspective, saying"if I was mafia, I would do" such and such, and "if I wasn't mafia, ..."  I think this is a blatant slip, and I am surprised I missed it in previous reads.  My question was directly referencing the current game and in no way biased him towards a scum or town answer; but he answered it first from a scum perspective.  I see no reason for him to do this unless he had been spending considerable time considering the current game from he scum perspective.  A town player would answer as town to such an open-ended question.

That seems like you’re clutching at straws my friend. Just because he gave both sides and answered from both doesn’t mean anything other than that he answered from both perpectives Gonna need more than that to convince me.

You are the one clutching at straws. ' THEY'LL ALL SEE AFTER I GET LYNCHED' is not a Defence, and neither is ' YOU ARE GOING DOWN AFTER I GET LYNCHED'. Your feeble attempts at intimidation are not working. I'm all the more convinced you're desperate scum. Kamin, it's time for you to hang.

You respond to a feeble defense with a feeble attack. You’re scum because you are scum

Alright. Think about it like this. And I apologise for the nastiness. Im sorry, and it shouldn't have slipped in there. It was pretty rude.
Post #129, the one Kamin Crusade begins on Vodot. In this post, he is Thinking scum hunting is a scum tell, and trying to start a wagon.

He was referring to rapid voting I think. Vodot had, at that point, switched votes and then voted me for “dogpiling” when there was a dogpile of one [only myself]. It was a weak attack, one that an inexperienced scum would make.

Post #151 Begins the ' Vodot hates IC's campaign.
P #155 Slips In a few little ' I'm town don't lynch me guize' beacons. I've seen him do this a few times. Do you think adding in a thing seemingly taunting the scum really increases your authenticity? Really?
P #168 nothing special.
P#170 This is... A strange post. Another little beacon of fake towniness. Saying ' I HOPE I DON'T GET NKED' *Wink* Is pretty scummy.

He was being friendly… I think. I honestly don’t see how #170 was overly scummy.

P#190 The crusade continues. I am starting to see perhaps an eleborate ploy by the scumteam of Kamin/Vodot. Infact,Vodot, why the sudden change in heart to the person who has had it in for you the entire game?

So they argued and drew attention to each-other through-out the entire game with the goal of teaming up at the last minute? That seems unlikely at best. I think you’re making things up with this one.

P#203 The insults fly, weakly attacking Vodot's Defence by trying to make it go away.
P#207 Only now when he says he's seeing about your posts, you decide to call him out on his 'OMGUS'.
P#260 The tide turns, and Kamin shuts the hell up. Then, he sees my vote and goes ' Easy Pickings' Please, if my case is crap look at Jim's. One line and a vote.

#260 was a pressure vote. Jim wasn’t building a case he wanted an answer…

@ Webadict: That is a shameless bandwagon jump there. Your case is more crap than mine. I am trying. I am trying as hard as I bloody can to prove my case.

You know it seems to me that you’re trying very hard to prove that the only other person with votes is scum. You look like a scum trying only to save their own life with some arguments King. Like the following:

So. You think it is not a scum tell for some dude to have a murderboner for lynching you the entire game and when he is on the block turning round and saying 'Hey bro don't lynch me bro that dude over there lynch him bro' That is a sign of
A) Desperate Scum
B) Bad Desperate Town
C) Desperate Power Role
66% chance Kamin is someone we do not want.

People change their minds. More evidence comes to surface. Like the above. Just what are you saying? There’s a 1/3 chance that Kamin is scum so you vote him? You literally refute some of your arguments when you mathematically prove [which doesn’t prove anything in Mafia] that Kamin is most likely not scum. I don’t get your point here unless it was just to throw out numbers and hope that confuses us enough to switch sides.


All of this plus everyone else's arguments lead me to say Kingfisher1112 is scum.

[Tiruin]

"I hope you don't mind me painting the names in blood."

"I thought you were a sponge."

"Of blood."

. . .

"Oh look, they're heating the coals! I wonder what's cooking up for tonight?"

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (3) - wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, kingfisher1112
• kingfisher1112 (4) - Kamin, vodot, webadict, Nerjin
• webadict (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting:

Between the hour of the Lynx and the Falcon.

((Day 2 will end at September 19, 2012 [Wednesday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

10 hours, 47 minutes and 28 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 2
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you use it on the first try, it seems))

[Jim Groovester]

Now, I have left myself open to attack.

And attacked you shall be.

From a completely alignment neutral perspective, deliberately leaving yourself open to attack is a bad idea.

Why not refer to Vodot and try to wagon him again?

Whatever case you're trying to make, you're doing a terrible job at making it.

See, you need to do a better job of constructing your posts so that the points you're trying to communicate are both evident and convincing.

See posts from myself, Shakerag, and any other player who's willing to throw up a wall of text to make an argument (not that they need to). These are the sorts of posts you should be trying to emulate.

I think you have decent points to make but your ability to express them as well as your poor argumentation skills are hampering you in getting your message across.

Please, if my case is crap look at Jim's. One line and a vote.

Pshaw, fair newb, watcheth thine mouth.

italics

WHY

A lot of the time I feel more like an English professor than a mafia instructor with how I have to always tell people how to construct legible posts and make coherent and convincing arguments.

As for the first quote that you are suspicious of, please note that it was the first day of play, and I was (still am) trying to figure out how to play this game. Also note that I don't think it is a completely unreasonable assumption to make--unless you really push the matter like Vodot did. I wasn't going out of my way to get ICs lynched like he did, which is evidence Vodot knew something about the ICs we didn't--namely, that they were town and he was not. I think you are observant enough to have noticed the difference. If not, go back and do some reading. If you feel that this is truly a convincing scumtell on my part rather than a tenuous link, that's your prerogative.

But it is a completely unreasonable assumption, as stated by both myself and Shakerag. So why do you still think that way?

So what you're telling me here is that you share the same opinion that vodot has, but it's scummy for vodot to do something about it and in a big fucking way and not scummy for you to sit around passively and do jack shit about it.

Hrmmmmmm. I'm sensing a problem with that. Can you tell what it is? (Hint: It's the passivity and the criticism of aggression.)

@ Jim：
Given that I had to go off of evidence primarily from Day 1, I felt that Vodot truly kept condemning himself. He attacked everybody with vitriol and gusto, and it seemed quite un-town to proceed in such a manner. He also seemed extremely paranoid about you ICs, which actually led me to think that neither you nor Shake were scum. As it turns out, Shake was not scum, and also happened to get NKed. If that's not damning, I'm not sure what is.

Now, to be completely honest (given the information I provided), I still think Vodot is scum. But King puts Vodot to shame if he is. See, for instance, the progression of the bandwagon--

But it isn't damning. Shakerag being town does not imply that vodot is scum. If vodot was scum and wanted to lynch the ICs, he wouldn't then nightkill them. It draws unnecessary attention to himself, and it's counterproductive and self-incriminating. And lynching the ICs is fucking hard. Why bother with lynching them as scum when there's this thing called the nightkill. Your argument doesn't make any sense unless you're also going to accuse vodot of being the ballsiest fucking noob scum ever. (Which I will grant you is possible, but I don't think it's that likely.)

@Vodot: You have a very nice case. I can see you put a lot of time into it, so I don't imagine you'd be willing to drop the vote after all of the work you did. It's ok to be honest here--if you're convinced I'm scum, I won't waste my time writing a wall of text explaining every point away. I still respect what you've done, regardless. If, however, there are questions you'd like to ask me, I'd be willing to answer them. Just keep in mind that everybody makes mistakes, be it town or scum, and this is both of our first game. I've been trying to find my own personal style of playing, so I've probably seemed all over the place... Nice and cordial to finger-pointing asshole, which I readily admit is completely contradictory and sloppy. I don't think it's inherently scummy so much as n00bish and stupid. I've yet to find a balance with play, but I'm trying. I know you've been grappling with the same problem of personal style balance just as I have, which is probably pretty normal this early in our respective Mafia careers. Anyway, let me know if there's anything in particular I can answer, and I will do my best to do so.

Buddying.

Buddyyyyiiiing.

If you love kissing vodot's ass so much why don't you marry it.

Nah, I like you after all, Kamin. Like Nerjin before you, I think you just finally told town under extreme pressure; it just took you a little longer. Actually, it's me who doesn't want to waste my time, reading your responses to my points. This attitude reversal was enough for me, for now. Unvote.

I see that Kamin kissing your ass has worked out in his favor.

[IC's: I would appreciate a no-nonsense read on the authenticity of Kamin's Noob Lament (TM!).

I can't, because I read it and strongly think Kamin is scum for it. It wanders too close to the line of my opinion as an IC and my opinion as a player.

Also, is there an established and previously analzed point in BM where we noobs first start clumsily changing the font size for effect? If not, I'd like to register a trademark on 'Noob-sizing', or some other attractively ironic or punny term for this.  Does it work occasionally, or is it merely obnoxious?]

Anything that gets in the way of my standard 12pt font I think is obnoxious.


I was considering swapping my vote from Kamin to kingfisher1112 but his terrible case on vodot and explanation made me reconsider. And the blatant and obvious buddying.

[webadict]

Come now, Jim. You're letting me off easy! Why aren't you coming after me?

[Jim Groovester]

Because you haven't done anything suspicious yet.

But since you want me to, tell me what you think of Kamin's buddying up to vodot.

Like, really, who genuinely says a player's case is nice? Especially if the case is about them.

[webadict]

Because you haven't done anything suspicious yet.

But since you want me to, tell me what you think of Kamin's buddying up to vodot.

Like, really, who genuinely says a player's case is nice? Especially if the case is about them.

I don't know. It's a really dumb thing for him to say. But, then again, this is a beginner's mafia. They haven't learned anything about it yet.

But, I don't know if it's genuine or not, so it's tougher to comment on it. If it's genuine, he's just ignorant. If it's not, then he's pretty good at emotional twisting.

I mean, in a real game, you'd get lynched really hard for that (just fwi) because you should know better. It's an appeal to emotion. However, I do believe that king's guilt is far worse, regardless. Not to say that Kamin isn't scummy. Simply that he doesn't seem like scum yet.

[kingfisher1112]

@Nerjin
Read Jim's post. It may seem unlikely, but think about it. Kamin has had poor evidence against Vodot the entire game, and now he simply tries to kiss his ass? Very scummy.
@IC's Finally paying attention to my posts.
@Vodot Why are you accepting Kamin's scummy asskissing? Can you not see the immense scumminess? He may appear ' Innocent Townie' but he is just a scummy dude trying to get you to gang up on me.
Extend. People are going to lurk now because they think I am done. I really do not want that to happen.

[Tiruin]

((Question: Can an extend or shorten be Opposed after the number of votes equal the number needed to do such?))

Extend.

D:

"Oh deary dear, this seems like a whole day of-"

"Quiet you! You aren't going through the ordeals."

"B-but I-"

"Map, meet burning coal. Burning coal, meet parchment. I trust you'll be good friends soon."

"Now show us the update."

"Eeeeee-"

The blood-like shade recedes back into the ol'parchment, leaving nothing but the cursive script of the knight's name once more.

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (3) - wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, kingfisher1112
• kingfisher1112 (4) - Kamin, vodot, webadict, Nerjin
• webadict (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting:

Between the hour of the Lynx and the Falcon.

((Day 2 will end at September 19, 2012 [Friday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

49 hours, 0 minutes and 01 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you use it on the first try, it seems))