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[Tiruin]

So, what'd I miss? Other than the lurking.

You're in the game.

[wsoxfan]

alright, webadict-after you read through the thread, who are your top scumpicks? Would you justify the previous player's actions?

[Jim Groovester]

Unvote
Kamin, you accused me of showing my true colors. I now believe that you've been flashing them for a while, and I've just been too blind to notice. Kamin

This is the exact sort of stuff I gave Kamin crap for. You can't lynch people with metaphor.

I also don't recall you expressing previous suspicion towards Kamin, which makes me think you voted him just because I railed on him. Color me suspect of your motives.

Also, why the unvote?

Don't get down on yourself mate, it happens to the best of us. Not me but the rest of the best.

Pfft, sure.

I have said everything that I think needs said. When others post a bit more I will be more than happy to analyze their posts. You also left Mark off that list. I still think he's scum. Vote Mark 2012 Scum-Mayor award. Why do I think he's scum? See my previous entries on the matter.

I'm lazy. Humor me.

If your case is largely that he's lurking up an absentstorm, what do you make of him being completely absent from the forum as a whole since the 12th?

So, what'd I miss? Other than the lurking.

Noobs being noobs, mostly.

[kingfisher1112]

@wsoxfan: Because Mark was a blank vote. He was lurking like all hell, and voting him Would do nothing.
I feel horrible right now. More questions coming.

[Nerjin]

-snip-

I'm lazy. Humor me.

If your case is largely that he's lurking up an absentstorm, what do you make of him being completely absent from the forum as a whole since the 12th?
[-snip]

Well I'll be honest. Since he lurked to Replacement-dom it does sort of weaken my case. I shall re-read the forum and check on who is what.

[webadict]

alright, webadict-after you read through the thread, who are your top scumpicks? Would you justify the previous player's actions?

Well, what I read was lurker lurker lurker.

So, lynch the lurkers.

[wsoxfan]

Unvote
Kamin, you accused me of showing my true colors. I now believe that you've been flashing them for a while, and I've just been too blind to notice. Kamin

This is the exact sort of stuff I gave Kamin crap for. You can't lynch people with metaphor.

I also don't recall you expressing previous suspicion towards Kamin, which makes me think you voted him just because I railed on him. Color me suspect of your motives.

Also, why the unvote?

First, I honestly wasn't looking too carefully at your post. This re-read was simply to re-analyze Kamin's posts, and if I couldn't find anything on him, I'd move onto the next person and find dirt on them. I was rereading because I wasn't completely convinced about Mark, hence the unvote(I voted him to hopefully force him to respond-it didn't work) So yes, but even if I was knowingly using your arguments, so what? If only one person could use a piece of evidence, then everyone would have a vote on them. The evidence on a player would have to overlap eventually. Also, the huge eye-opener was the fact that he was very, very confident in my role, which the only way you could know that would mean that he's scum.
webadict-Can you answer the question with more information? i.e., who are the lurkers, and do you have any other evidence to back it up once they come back online?

[vodot]

Spoiler: Kamin 1 (click to show/hide)

Talk about a lot of questions! I'm just going to post these in order without quoting, since sifting through everything takes forever.

Kamin: What do you think the most scummy thing someone can do is?

Probably unjustified bandwagoning on the first day. I haven't seen it yet, but I DO think I've seen some signs of OMGUS, which is also pretty scummy.

Ka[r]min, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use it RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

I'm not sure, does this mean I'm the deciding factor in a lynch situation, or that I have a night kill, or what?

Wrex, It's you, me and Kamin on Day 10. You're the last scum, and we're 75% certain it's you. What do you do? What do YOU do in the above scenario, Kamin?

25% chance of me being wrong? You can bet your ass I'd be going through all of your old posts and seeing if you appeared to throw anybody under the bus or participated in a deal of unjustified bandwagoning. Still, 75% is better than 25%, so after spending forever and a half sifting through responses, I'd most likely come to the same conclusion as before and lynch. Scrutiny is always important, though, especially if there's a lot of WiFoM--everybody is fallible.

kamin-if you were the doctor, how would you choose how to save a player?

What is the context? First night? Last night? The context would definitely change my criteria.

Kamin: It's 3-player LYLO, and you're a vanilla townie.  Both remaining players have claimed they're the doc.  Neither claim has any obvious holes in it.  How do you decide who to trust?

Solid question, but as my other LYLO question above, I'd go through ALL of the pertinent info. I'd crosscheck FoS, votes, and the like to see who is the most scummy. Just because there's not an OBVIOUS hole in a claim doesn't mean there aren't any.

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

Mark: What exactly would be "obvious" about somebody playing scum? You seem to know what scumminess entails, so please, regale me. Please be more detailed than simply saying something like "OMGUS," and keep the "I feel like everybody's a newb except for me" to a minimum.

Vodot: You seem pretty active, cast the first vote against Jim, and have also been "fingered," so I would like to ask you a question. If you were scum on the first day and were under suspicion, would you OMGUS, or would you do some combo of roleblock on the suspicious party and NK somebody else? (So many possibilities...)

Nerjin: You're pretty quick with that FoS... Is it the OMGUSFoS?

Jim and Shakerag: I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

On Kamin's first post, he answers three questions and requests clarification on two others. 

To me, one of the more interesting parts of this post is where he says "unjustified bandwagoning" is scummy, and then becomes the first player to cast a second vote for someone.  He votes Mark, and does it without stating any explicit reason beyond quoting his semi-infamous line "I'm obvious when I'm scum".

In the paragraph where he votes Mark, he also recycles one of my exact criticisms of Mark:

All this questions make me feel like I'm less than a newbie, haha.

Just do your best, Mark... no lame Excuses.

Mark...and keep the "I feel like everybody's a newb except for me" to a minimum.

Also in his Mark paragraph, doesn't this sound at least a little bit like one scum player giving advice to another? At the very least, I would say that Kamin is pretty aware and concerned about how a Scum should defray suspicion:

Please be more detailed than simply saying something like "OMGUS," and keep the "I feel like everybody's a newb except for me" to a minimum.

Finally, Kamin asks this very interesting question:

Jim and Shakerag: I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

Now, admittedly, this sounds similar to a question that I ask Jim later, but Kamin asks his from the opposite perspective.  I ask Jim what I should be looking for in noob scum that have been yelled at by an angry Dariush.  But Kamin asks the IC's what scumtells he (Kamin) and the other scum should avoid in order to minimize the amount of suspicious they cast his way.  Kamin's smart, and I think his was an interesting way of getting backhanded advice from the ICs about how to play scum.

Spoiler: Kamin 2 (click to show/hide)

Ka[r]min, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use iat RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

I'm not sure, does this mean I'm the deciding factor in a lynch situation, or that I have a night kill, or what?

I misspelled your name, to my eternal shame. I would edit... but my concern for my nether-parts prevents me, out of fear of the aforementioned shovel. 

It's alright, I forgive you--shovels seem a bit too extreme for my nether-regions as well 

No, what I meant is, you PM the Mod, and he kills your target RIGHT NOW, no waiting.  BAM.  Now who would it be?

So to answer you, I'm going to take a few things into consideration. If I was scum, I imagine I'd probably pick an experienced player, whichever one (or two) wasn't on my side. This is because experienced players are death to scum. If I wasn't scum, I'd still be extremely worried about a scum IC. The problem is that there's not enough info right now and I'm completely in the dark, so if I had to pick right now, I'd stick with my current vote against Mark.

Wrex, how about playing the game and answering/asking some questions to give the town information, instead of non-answering and voting for other people that are answering/asking questions to give the town information?

I can agree with this. I'm sorry if my first post was a wall of text because I had a million questions to answer, but at least I'm not lurking like you, Sox, and Jim. Just because I answered and asked questions doesn't make me more accusatory than anybody else. I'm not upset with Kingfisher because he asked me a question before anybody else, for instance. That's just how it goes. Asking questions is how we dig out scum. You should perhaps answer what questions are posed to you later and ask some questions of your own, because I'm starting to waver on my Mark vote.


PPE: Also...

Allright. If you want to know why I haven't been answering questions, is that for the past tweleve hours I was trying to sleep, then having nightmares, then consumng as many caffinated beverages as possible so that when the crash hits I am so dead tired I can get some decent sleep.

And now the witch-Hunt begins.

You were pretty awake when you posted that almost 2 hours ago, and trying to sleep for over 12 hours when you're not tired seems... Unnecessary. Why would you post while you were trying to sleep? 

Ok, this is one of my favorites, becuase it came so early and I think everyone just missed it in the flurry of posts.  Why in the world would Kamin voluntarily answer this question from the SCUM perspective?  I didn't even really read this answer until going through this thread for analysis, but this is just a complete slip.  It's glaring.  I wasn't looking or hinting that he answer this as scum at all, but he does... and he purposefully puts 'if I WAS scum' in italics, which tells me that he thought about that answer more than once.

I think it is interesting that an IC died the night after he said this, but the NK means nothing, so, eh.  Everyone knows that I'd be no great fan of playing against the ICs as scum, either.

The other part of this post that is just great to meis how nervous he is about appearing accusatory.  Look at him piggyback off of what I said about Wrex:

Wrex, how about playing the game and answering/asking some questions to give the town information, instead of non-answering and voting for other people that are answering/asking questions to give the town information?

I can agree with this. I'm sorry if my first post was a wall of text because I had a million questions to answer, but at least I'm not lurking like you, Sox, and Jim. Just because I answered and asked questions doesn't make me more accusatory than anybody else. I'm not upset with Kingfisher because he asked me a question before anybody else, for instance. That's just how it goes. Asking questions is how we dig out scum. You should perhaps answer what questions are posed to you later and ask some questions of your own, because I'm starting to waver on my Mark vote.

Look at him backpedal!  Nobody has even accused him yet, but he's couching his bets; he apologizes for his WoT (uneccessarily, I think we all know who would win that contest here), he proactively starts asserting his anti-lurker-ness, he buddies a bit with king and reassures himself that he's not upset for being questioned. 

Why is he comparing himself so carefully to other players this early? Hm.

Spoiler: Kamin 3 (click to show/hide)

I was playing some DF to calm down, alright? It works wonders as a sleep aid. And I am very, very tired.


Now, Kamin, What would you do if someone -anyone, it dosen't matter who- Claimed cop on the first day?

[I'm really sorry if you're having trouble sleeping and all IRL, don't feel like I'm actually attacking you--it's all in good fun!]

A real cop would never do that on the first day. Probably scum. Vote to lynch.

Here he apologizes to wrex for badgering him.  "It's all in good fun!  I'm not really atacking you" Interesting. I know I'm coming across as a total hardass for the larger part of this game, butI would never let a player off the hook like this, especially so early on, especially over an excuse as easy as missing sleep.  And Kamin had him on the rails, here: He had basically caught Wrex in a blatant contradiction (posting when he said he was trying to sleep).  Why back off?  To quote Jim: "scared, cowardly scum, much?"

Spoiler: Kamin 4 (click to show/hide)

But then, Kamin was the second person to vote Mark, and our first bandwagoner... and he did it as a response to pressure.
unvote.
Kamin, why were you the first to cast a second vote for someone?

I thought that was evident. You should go back next time before asking a question, but here, I'll be a good sport this time.

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

That's why. "I'm obvious when I'm scum." Tell me that isn't the scummiest thing that's been said all game. How, then, was my vote a response to "pressure?" What "pressure" do you speak of? Vodot, I am quite aware of my vote being cast and the implication, but my vote was not unjustified, nor is it currently bandwagoning because Shakerag changed his vote. I have not. I declared unjustified bandwagoning to be superscum earlier, to boot... It'd be pretty hilarious if I started unjustified bandwagoning so soon after such a declaration. If you feel like voting against me, that's your prerogative. It's RVS, and I know what all of this hardassery intends to accomplish.

This one is where the game really starts to turn for Kamin. After this post, he is going to halt his thus-far bland progress at investigating the town, and switch to going after me with a vengence. 

First, in response to my question, he gets pretty snarky.
"Here", he says, "I'll be a good sport THIS time".  But the reason he gives for voting Mark is barely a reason at all; and it certainly wasn't explicitly stated in his original post.  Why does Kamin get so defenseive about my having asked him this question?

As he fleshes out his reply, it just gets better: He starts getting defensive about the factthat he voted.  He's not trying to explain WHY he voted; he's obsessed with trying to prove to me that his voting ISNT SCUMMY.  But I don't care about that, I just wanted him to explain why he voted!

He goes as far to say, "look, Shake changed his vote from mark!  Now I'm not bandwagoning!"  But wha does that have to do with anything?  If you jump on a bandwagon, nobody cares if you're the last one on the bandwagon; the point is that you jumped on it.

I wasn't really even going to press him at all on this; I just expected a simple acknowledgement that he did, indeed, cast the first #2 vote for someone.

Finally, he says this:

I declared unjustified bandwagoning to be superscum earlier, to boot... It'd be pretty hilarious if I started unjustified bandwagoning so soon after such a declaration. If you feel like voting against me, that's your prerogative. It's RVS, and I know what all of this hardassery intends to accomplish.

I think he says this because he's legitimately concerned about how this is looking; and I think it explains his (Lasting!) unwillingness to simply agree with me that he cast that vote for second vote for Mark.  And Kamin is NOT a fan of my hardassery: that much is going to become very apparent in his next several posts, where he starts going after me for wanting to lynch the ICs.

Spoiler: Mini-Kamin (click to show/hide)

Kamin, you're voting mark.  What do you think of Mark and King's ongoing argument? Is it changing your mind?

Coincidentally, Kamin never answered this question.

Kamin 5-15 coming soon, as I have time.  Anyone want to guess the ending?

[webadict]

Calm down, vodot. You don't need to unload a whole bunch of info at once. I think you'd do better not to comment on everything all at once. Instead, make short sweet points. It's easier to convince your audience (us) of your view if you're not overloading us with info.

[Jim Groovester]

Wall o' text with promises of more to come!

Ugh, no. I am not reading that.

webadict's right in that you're not going to convince anybody with a flurry of information. Focus only on the strongest pieces of evidence you have and make your case digestible for your audience, which is the rest of us. The quicker and easier to process you make your point the easier time you'll have convincing everybody of it.

I get it, it's your first game, and you're really excited. But the magic of trying to prove that somebody's scum by looking at literally everything they have to say and dissecting it word by word wears off quickly.

[Nerjin]

Does this make Web an IC?

[Jim Groovester]

He's experienced enough to be one, so you should listen to what he has to say.

[Tiruin]

"You know, I'm pretty suspicious about that guy, over there. With the bushy mustache and the bent back?"

"He's not on trial."

"No, he's not..."

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (1) - wsoxfan
• kingfisher1112 (0) -
• webadict (1) - Nerjin
• vodot (1) -  Kamin
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Jim Groovester, vodot, kingfisher1112, , webadict

Between the hour of the Boar and the Lynx.

((Day 2 will end at September 17, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

10 hours, 29 minutes and 13 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you use it on the first try, it seems))

[wsoxfan]

There's not enough people voting-extend so people can get their votes in.

[kingfisher1112]

Extend.
Alright, I havevreally got no idea who to vote.