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[Wrex]

@Mark: Why do people bandwagon in the first place? I would join a bandwagon, and only If I was absolutely assured of that person's guilt.


Now, the misinformation I am concerned about is your...agressive? interogation style. You are fingering everybody when at this stage of the game, such an agressive approach does nothing but draw attention to yourself.


So, Vodot, I have a question for you: d2. You examine someone, and they are guilty. However, you -may- be playing with a bastard mod. Do you trust your results?

[markressler]

@Wrex, I was just asking. And I'm not being agressive at all... you think that? Does everybody thinks I'm being agressive?

[markressler]

I'm also not fingering anybody, Wrex, are you sure you are reading everything?

[Wrex]

@Wrex, I was just asking. And I'm not being agressive at all... you think that? Does everybody thinks I'm being agressive?

The earlier comment was dirrected at Vodot, I should have been more specific

[markressler]

Well, I'm fingering Kamin, but it's a counter-vote most of all. Won't last long there.

[markressler]

Oh, excuse me, then, haha.

[vodot]

Mkay! I have some time now to actually do some questions.

@vodot, yeah, it was a counter-vote, I can't argue with that.

I appreciate the honesty, Mark, but the fact that your vote was an OMGUS wasn't really in dispute.  The real question is: Why do you feel so threatened right now that you're voting for someone for absolutely no reason other than they voted for you?  Here, I'll try: Is it because you know that you are absolutely the most vulnerable and overexposed player in this game, at the moment?

But then, Kamin was the second person to vote Mark, and our first bandwagoner... and he did it as a response to pressure.
unvote.
Kamin, why were you the first to cast a second vote for someone?

I thought that was evident. You should go back next time before asking a question, but here, I'll be a good sport this time.

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

That's why. "I'm obvious when I'm scum."

Don't go after me for calling out the fact that you didn't state your reasons clearly.  I know you can retroactively make explicit some implicit reason for your having voted someone, but the point is that you didn't make it explicit when you voted... probably because you didn't really have a solid reason. You just bandwagoned him based on a feeling, on D1.  And that's scummy.

Tell me that isn't the scummiest thing that's been said all game.

I'll admit it, that was pretty good.

How, then, was my vote a response to "pressure?" What "pressure" do you speak of?

Taking five questions at once is a lot of pressure, and a lot of exposure for a shifty person like you to try and deal with.  Looking back, you're right: no one was directly accusing or voting you.  But for a player with more than one game under their belt, I find it interesting that your first vote out of the gate was a bandwagon on poor, language-hampered (feigned or not), vulnerable mark.

Vodot, I am quite aware of my vote being cast and the implication, but my vote was not unjustified, nor is it currently bandwagoning because Shakerag changed his vote. I have not. I declared unjustified bandwagoning to be superscum earlier, to boot... It'd be pretty hilarious if I started unjustified bandwagoning so soon after such a declaration.

But bandwagoning is all about timing, and when you cast the vote, it WAS bandwagoning.  Yes, or No?

And RE:Your potential hypocrisy, I agree, and I'd have to chuckle about it.  Kind of like I am now, actually.

Now, the misinformation I am concerned about is your...agressive? interogation style. You are fingering everybody when at this stage of the game, such an aggressive approach does nothing but draw attention to yourself.

Ick, ick.  I'll agree that it draws attention to myself, but only because there is a vacuum of other interrogation going on.  The rest of what you said is just slimy and gross. Read the IC posts, or read through a few of the other games, please.

So, Vodot, I have a question for you: d2. You examine someone, and they are guilty. However, you -may- be playing with a bastard mod. Do you trust your results?

...No...?  I might not be familiar with bastard mod (unreliable narrator, right?), but that just seems like a pointless question to me.  "A potentially unreliable person gives you information.  Do you trust it?"

Am I missing a wrinkle here, Wrex, or are you just asking a question to ask a question?

[markressler]

@vodot, yes, I do feel vulnerable. But now I'm trying my best to not look like that and actually do something.

[Wrex]

Not quite. The question does in fact, have a point.


So Markressler, Why do you feel so vulnerable?

[markressler]

@Wrex, I do really have to answer that again? I'm a bit handicapped with the language, sometimes I try to explain something and I end making the situation worse. As it happened before, here. I'm trying to overcome that, though. So, Wrex, once again I ask you, are you reading everything?

[markressler]

Also, unvote. Since I've admitted to vote just as a counter-vote, there's no point to not unvote.

[vodot]

[non-Dariush] IC's, I'd like some insight into the merits and pitfalls of a D1 lynch for the town in this setup.  Seven of us have a one-in four chance of picking a scum; should we act on D1 or not? 

• Best case, we nail scum and the game gets weird, assisted 6 v 1 on D2.
• Worst case, we nail a townie power role and drop to a dangerous, unassisted 5 v 2 on D2.
• Average situation, though, is we go into D2 with an assisted 5 v 2, hopefully with a cop having picked or cleared a critical player on N1 and surviving.

Is that better than just going 6 v 2 on D2?  I'm definitely EC in this regard and would love to hear your analysis.

[Hapah]

Hang on guys, I got this.

[markressler]

[non-Dariush] IC's, I'd like some insight into the merits and pitfalls of a D1 lynch for the town in this setup.  Seven of us have a one-in four chance of picking a scum; should we act on D1 or not? 

• Best case, we nail scum and the game gets weird, assisted 6 v 1 on D2.
• Worst case, we nail a townie power role and drop to a dangerous, unassisted 5 v 2 on D2.
• Average situation, though, is we go into D2 with an assisted 5 v 2, hopefully with a cop having picked or cleared a critical player on N1 and surviving.

Is that better than just going 6 v 2 on D2?  I'm definitely EC in this regard and would love to hear your analysis.

6 v 2? You meant 5 v 2?

[Hapah]

(Sorry if I'm intruding, Tir!)

To save someone the trouble of digging it up, I include a rant that Book gave to me on the subject of D1 lynches.

I'm not an IC, but I once wrote a rant about nolynches on Day One that I think would be beneficial for this audience, so I quote it below. In brief, you can (i.e., it's a valid vote, and if it has majority no lynch will happen) but you shouldn't unless you have a very very good reason. Actual ICs will, of course, chime in with their own thoughts, and there are different considerations to be had in subsequent days; the below applies only for D1.

Even in a game like this, or a role-heavy game like a BYOR, paranormal, or bastard, without a D1 lynch people will lack context for the conversation during the day, which is the very point of the day game. The information lost is not just the flip of a person, but who voted them, with what arguments, and forms the very foundation of how the town power roles will choose their night actions. Information is key, and timely information moreso. People flipping at the start of D2 is not nearly as useful, and a nolynch will result in people using their powers on whoever they were voting (if block/investigate) or a crapshoot for protections and the like, due to lack of context and closure.

A D1 no-lynch pretty much wastes all of D1 content, and gives scum a chance to NK/convert/whatever while town has to shoot in the dark. The amount of information lost is not small, but most importantly, you lose the opportunity to use it. N1 will never come again. Even if you learn the information later, you'll never get that night back, which scum got for free. Not good for town at all.

Also considering the fact that the D1 lynchee is almost always town (when was the last time anyone saw a scum hang D1?),

Not that rare. The very last game I played (Cybrid Mafia 3) we lynched scum D1. A couple games before that (Politibastard) as well, though that was a... different sort of game. I'm sure there are several others.

So sure, it doesn't happen that often, but it certainly does happen. Plus the possibility of a mislynch is built into the balance of the game. If there is going to be one, it's best for town that it happens sooner rather than later, so maximum information is provided early. It's never good, but a D1 no-lynch is worse.


Please disabuse yourself of the notion that a D1 no-lynch is good for town ever. Except in very narrow types of games where constant (not just D1) no-lynch can be used to break the setup (which is not the case here), whenever you think a D1 no-lynch is good because it's cautious, it's misapplied caution, and will hurt town much more than a possible mislynch would.