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[Kamin]

Talk about a lot of questions! I'm just going to post these in order without quoting, since sifting through everything takes forever.

Kamin: What do you think the most scummy thing someone can do is?

Probably unjustified bandwagoning on the first day. I haven't seen it yet, but I DO think I've seen some signs of OMGUS, which is also pretty scummy.

Ka[r]min, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use it RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

I'm not sure, does this mean I'm the deciding factor in a lynch situation, or that I have a night kill, or what?

Wrex, It's you, me and Kamin on Day 10. You're the last scum, and we're 75% certain it's you. What do you do? What do YOU do in the above scenario, Kamin?

25% chance of me being wrong? You can bet your ass I'd be going through all of your old posts and seeing if you appeared to throw anybody under the bus or participated in a deal of unjustified bandwagoning. Still, 75% is better than 25%, so after spending forever and a half sifting through responses, I'd most likely come to the same conclusion as before and lynch. Scrutiny is always important, though, especially if there's a lot of WiFoM--everybody is fallible.

kamin-if you were the doctor, how would you choose how to save a player?

What is the context? First night? Last night? The context would definitely change my criteria.

Kamin: It's 3-player LYLO, and you're a vanilla townie.  Both remaining players have claimed they're the doc.  Neither claim has any obvious holes in it.  How do you decide who to trust?

Solid question, but as my other LYLO question above, I'd go through ALL of the pertinent info. I'd crosscheck FoS, votes, and the like to see who is the most scummy. Just because there's not an OBVIOUS hole in a claim doesn't mean there aren't any.

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

Mark: What exactly would be "obvious" about somebody playing scum? You seem to know what scumminess entails, so please, regale me. Please be more detailed than simply saying something like "OMGUS," and keep the "I feel like everybody's a newb except for me" to a minimum.

Vodot: You seem pretty active, cast the first vote against Jim, and have also been "fingered," so I would like to ask you a question. If you were scum on the first day and were under suspicion, would you OMGUS, or would you do some combo of roleblock on the suspicious party and NK somebody else? (So many possibilities...)

Nerjin: You're pretty quick with that FoS... Is it the OMGUSFoS?

Jim and Shakerag: I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

[Shakerag]

[Some observational notes:]

[Everyone: Think of the discussion in this game like flowing water, and you all are pipes.  If your post is just an answer to a question, the flow stops there.  If the flow stops, then the water stagnates.  Then nothing happens. 
Try to have some "output" in most (if not all) of your posts.  Ask a new question.  Ask a follow-up question.  Apply pressure.  Get someone's thoughts on something happening in the thread.]

Nerjin: If you were mafia, who would you kill?

I'm not going to answer that question. Mainly because if I do then I'm dead. If I said for example "I say -Player- because -reasons-" then the scum will just kill -Player- and then the next day you'd say something along the lines of "When I asked -Question- on day 1 you said -Player- and now they're dead. You obviously had something to do with it." Sorry but that seems like a really dangerous question to answer.

[This is a favorite topic of Jim's, but I'll go ahead and make a point here.  Trying to dissect why the scumteam killed someone is going to be almost always fruitless.  This is a perfect example of WIFOM.  Keep your attention focused on the day game.]

@markressler If you cut my pinky in half that is the size of the FOS I throw at you.

[Why are you FoSing him?]


Unvote

[Nerjin: Please use quotes when quoting other players.]

[vodot: Blue text is for FoSing a player's name, not ... whatever the hell it is you're doing.]

Wrex: You have two outstanding questions.  Why aren't you answering them?

[Kamin: Don't quote that way.  It's god-awfully horrible for the rest of us to follow.  Even if you're not going to use the built-in quote function on the forum, at least indicate a name and post number as reference to what you're replying to.  Example.]

Jim and Shakerag: I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

[You believe wrong.  Scum has a guaranteed IC that isn't a player.  In this game, that role is being filled by Dariush.  The two playing ICs have as equal of a chance as anyone else to be scum.  BM33 - Both ICs were on the scumteam.  Many games neither IC is on the scumteam.  Sometimes just one of the ICs is on the scumteam.  You can't make assumptions to that effect. 

To answer your question, my number one scumtell is getting caught in a lie.]

[Wrex]

I would rather not answer that question. Generally because claiming doctor is a terrible idea, unless it is LYLO. If I were scum, I would live. If I were not scum, I would be shot.


Vodot, you seem.... particularly accusatory. As does Kamin, actually.


If you were 75% sure that I was scum, you better belive I would be coming through your post to prove you were the traitor.

[vodot]

-snip

That Question, Nerjin.  *sigh* And way to not defend your fermented rationale.  Aaaand thanks for the blue text, sans explanation.

The blue text is “Finger of Suspicion” to my knowledge. Sorry about that. I forget this sort of thing from time to time. It just means I’m suspicious of you but not quite so much as to actually vote you.

I know what the blue text means... I was commenting on your lack of reasoning to assign it to me (unless, of course, the reason is simply 'Oh, Marbles. Go Upstream, Salmon!')

My reasoning for not answering the question is this:
The goal of scum is to kill as many players as quickly as possible right?
So they’d want to lynch like crazy true?
So if I said I’d kill “X” then I’d answer the question. Simple enough. However “Y” the scum knows this now. So that night he kills “X”. Everyone else, including Y, would know about my “desire” to lynch “X”. So then I’d be on the chopping block.
Then I die freeing up “Y” to kill again the next night with a net-loss of about 4 [2 lynches, me, and the next night kill.]
I just don’t think giving the scum that sort of opportunity is wise.

And I don't think you would need to be concerned, Nerjin, because the attempt to lynch you on D2 just because "X" died N1 would be scummy wrapped in a scummy blanket:

Spoiler: WIFOM example: (click to show/hide)

"But he SAID he wanted "X" to die and *gasp!* "X" died!  LYNCH HIM!!" 

The obvious follow up is: "But what if the mafia wanted to make it look like he killed "X"?  He's Clean!"

And so on: "But what if he knew that we would think that the mafia might have framed him, and he actually did just kill "X" anyway!? 

And what if we knew that we knew that they knew...

That's called WIFOM, or "wine in front of me" and it is a pointless exercise that adds no new information to the town. 

TL;DR
I wouldn't lynch you D2 if your D1 "X" died, because the fact of "X's" death provides me with zero real additional information.

PPE(I):

Ka[r]min, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use it RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

I'm not sure, does this mean I'm the deciding factor in a lynch situation, or that I have a night kill, or what?

I misspelled your name, to my eternal shame. I would edit... but my concern for my nether-parts prevents me, out of fear of the aforementioned shovel. 

No, what I meant is, you PM the Mod, and he kills your target RIGHT NOW, no waiting.  BAM.  Now who would it be?

Vodot: You seem pretty active, cast the first vote against Jim, and have also been "fingered," so I would like to ask you a question. If you were scum on the first day and were under suspicion, would you OMGUS, or would you do some combo of roleblock on the suspicious party and NK somebody else? (So many possibilities...)

I'm not proud of it... but I would probably just NK the suspicious player.  I prefer direct solutions, and in my in-person experience it rarely pays to allow a smart suspicious player to live.

It would completely depend on the weakness of the suspecting player, however, and the degree to which he appears capable of influencing the town.

PPE(II):

I would rather not answer that question. Generally because claiming doctor is a terrible idea, unless it is LYLO. If I were scum, I would live. If I were not scum, I would be shot.


Vodot, you seem.... particularly accusatory. As does Kamin, actually.

Wrex, how about playing the game and answering/asking some questions to give the town information, instead of non-answering and voting for other people that are answering/asking questions to give the town information?

[Wrex]

Allright. If you want to know why I haven't been answering questions, is that for the past tweleve hours I was trying to sleep, then having nightmares, then consumng as many caffinated beverages as possible so that when the crash hits I am so dead tired I can get some decent sleep.


You want answers? You got answers. Claiming Doc, as previously stated, is stupid, because you might as well tape a sign to your back that reads "Shoot me". Unless it is absolutely, 100% sure that it is LYLO and it is essential that you are not lynched and there will not be another round. I would not claim doctor unless the other person was giving some sort of monologue designed to make other people look bad to save his own skin E.G Vodot. You could easily cause a WIFOM with the questions you ask, which are pointed as weapons at anyone that catches your fancy. You appear to be giving the town misinformaiton, more than anything.

As for the other question, if you were 75% sure I was scum, you better belive I would be hunting down as much information as I could to prove you false. At that point, claiming would be appropriate. The only issue would be support whatever claim is appropriate.

[Kamin]

Ka[r]min, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use it RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

I'm not sure, does this mean I'm the deciding factor in a lynch situation, or that I have a night kill, or what?

I misspelled your name, to my eternal shame. I would edit... but my concern for my nether-parts prevents me, out of fear of the aforementioned shovel. 

It's alright, I forgive you--shovels seem a bit too extreme for my nether-regions as well 

No, what I meant is, you PM the Mod, and he kills your target RIGHT NOW, no waiting.  BAM.  Now who would it be?

So to answer you, I'm going to take a few things into consideration. If I was scum, I imagine I'd probably pick an experienced player, whichever one (or two) wasn't on my side. This is because experienced players are death to scum. If I wasn't scum, I'd still be extremely worried about a scum IC. The problem is that there's not enough info right now and I'm completely in the dark, so if I had to pick right now, I'd stick with my current vote against Mark.

Wrex, how about playing the game and answering/asking some questions to give the town information, instead of non-answering and voting for other people that are answering/asking questions to give the town information?

I can agree with this. I'm sorry if my first post was a wall of text because I had a million questions to answer, but at least I'm not lurking like you, Sox, and Jim. Just because I answered and asked questions doesn't make me more accusatory than anybody else. I'm not upset with Kingfisher because he asked me a question before anybody else, for instance. That's just how it goes. Asking questions is how we dig out scum. You should perhaps answer what questions are posed to you later and ask some questions of your own, because I'm starting to waver on my Mark vote.


PPE: Also...

Allright. If you want to know why I haven't been answering questions, is that for the past tweleve hours I was trying to sleep, then having nightmares, then consumng as many caffinated beverages as possible so that when the crash hits I am so dead tired I can get some decent sleep.

And now the witch-Hunt begins.

You were pretty awake when you posted that almost 2 hours ago, and trying to sleep for over 12 hours when you're not tired seems... Unnecessary. Why would you post while you were trying to sleep? 

[Wrex]

I was playing some DF to calm down, alright? It works wonders as a sleep aid. And I am very, very tired.


Now, Kamin, What would you do if someone -anyone, it dosen't matter who- Claimed cop on the first day?

[Kamin]

I was playing some DF to calm down, alright? It works wonders as a sleep aid. And I am very, very tired.


Now, Kamin, What would you do if someone -anyone, it dosen't matter who- Claimed cop on the first day?

[I'm really sorry if you're having trouble sleeping and all IRL, don't feel like I'm actually attacking you--it's all in good fun!]

A real cop would never do that on the first day. Probably scum. Vote to lynch.

[markressler]

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

[markressler]

((Excuse my lack of questions, I'm quite busy irl right now))

[Jim Groovester]

As mentioned by Shakerag, here's the speech.

Spoiler: The Speech (click to show/hide)

Now that the game has started and I am now responsible for teaching seven of you how to play a game, I will say the following first.

I will be a completely impartial source of advice that I will freely give at every opportunity, whether I am asked for it or I decide to give it on my own. You can trust that everything I have to say will be given in good faith, even if it comes at a personal cost to me in this game. If you do not listen to what I have to say, for any reason, you will severely hamper your ability to learn how to play the game. So, to reiterate,

Listen to what I tell you.

If you don't, then what's the point of me being here?

For those of you who don't know what to do, games usually start with the Random Vote Stage. You should pick a target randomly, vote them, and ask them a question. The sole purpose of this is to get conversation going when there would otherwise be no reason to do that. I'll start.

Boltur, let's say it's late in Day 1. The person about to be lynched is somebody you think is town, while your target is only a few votes away from being in the lead. Do you extend and try to change people's minds or do you wait and see what happens?

Ideally you should ask game related questions in the RVS. Asking what kind of flavor of ice cream is a player's favorite does absolutely nothing to help you find scum, which is your primary goal.

And because it bears repeating: Your primary goal is to find scum. Everything you do should help you towards that goal. And I do mean everything.

If you're scum, you will obviously have a different goal: Avoid detection until the end of the game. The best way to do this is to look like you are trying to find scum.

Since many of you are going to have no idea what to do and will mangle scumhunting in just about every possible way, it does you no good to hold back. So be bold, and just do the best you can. Ask lots of questions, try to get a good feel for how the game is played. I'll be there to help you when you go wrong.

Additionally, before anybody else does anything, I will stress the importance of activity. You should be as active as possible. A good guideline is to get one good post in a day, but if you can post productively more often than that it's generally a good idea to do so. As a player, town or scum, being active and visible is very much an asset, as you're out there making yourself readable, and this is considered a town quality. While there are very good personal benefits to being active, the reverse is detrimental to the whole game. Low activity makes games hard to play or outright kills them. This is fun for absolutely no one, so make a good effort and be active.

If you played a Beginner's Game before you probably recognize this spiel, but it's good all the same.

Unfortunately this game started late last night when I was too tired to post, and now I'm stuck at school with less than fifteen minutes to hack a post together, so I'll get around to asking and answering questions sometime later tonight. It seems the game started off well enough without me, so that's a good sign.

In the meantime, if you're not being active, start, and if you're not trying to find scum, start.

[vodot]

Allright. If you want to know why I haven't been answering questions, is that for the past tweleve hours I was trying to sleep, then having nightmares, then consumng as many caffinated beverages as possible so that when the crash hits I am so dead tired I can get some decent sleep.

Except that part where you logged in here 30 minutes ago to not answer a question and vote for me.

You want answers? You got answers. Claiming Doc, as previously stated, is stupid, because you might as well tape a sign to your back that reads "Shoot me". Unless it is absolutely, 100% sure that it is LYLO and it is essential that you are not lynched and there will not be another round.

You wouldn't claim doctor if you were on the block with majority?  If you were facing a hammer?

I would.

I would not claim doctor unless the other person was giving some sort of monologue designed to make other people look bad to save his own skin provide the town with more information. E.G Vodot.

Fixed.  Save my own skin? I came under suspicion as a result of my questions, not vice-versa. 

Let's assume I was giving the town misinformation. How exactly would a doctor claim help in that situation?  Or are you merely grafting your dislike of me onto the end of your sentence because I'm making you uncomfortable?*

You could easily cause a WIFOM with the questions you ask, which are pointed as weapons at anyone that catches your fancy. You appear to be giving the town misinformaiton, more than anything.

Initiating WIFOM is probably the result of an answer, and not the question. Which questions that I've asked are you concerned about?

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

This is just a blatant counter-vote, and it's scummy.  Kamin votes mark -> mark votes Kamin.

But then, Kamin was the second person to vote Mark, and our first bandwagoner... and he did it as a response to pressure.

unvote.

Kamin, why were you the first to cast a second vote for someone?

Jim, Another question: You're scum and your noobly partner has basically bungled up D1, OMGUSing and WIFOMing all over heaven.  What advice do you give him?  How badly does he have to eff the scum game up before you simply bus him and move on?

I was playing some DF to calm down, alright? It works wonders as a sleep aid. And I am very, very tired.

Lame, Lame, LAME!

*"grafting" was a reach, I admit it.

PPE:
Jim is alive!  Please answer my questions, good sir, or i shalt lynch thee forsooth.

[markressler]

Mkay! I have some time now to actually do some questions.

@vodot, yeah, it was a counter-vote, I can't argue with that.

@Wrex, you prefer to start bandwagons or jump into them? Regardless being maf or town.

@Jim, D2, you got a guilty on somebody. What do you do to convince the others to lynch that guy? Or do you wait to make your move? (no need to claim).

[Kamin]

But then, Kamin was the second person to vote Mark, and our first bandwagoner... and he did it as a response to pressure.
unvote.
Kamin, why were you the first to cast a second vote for someone?

I thought that was evident. You should go back next time before asking a question, but here, I'll be a good sport this time.

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

That's why. "I'm obvious when I'm scum." Tell me that isn't the scummiest thing that's been said all game. How, then, was my vote a response to "pressure?" What "pressure" do you speak of? Vodot, I am quite aware of my vote being cast and the implication, but my vote was not unjustified, nor is it currently bandwagoning because Shakerag changed his vote. I have not. I declared unjustified bandwagoning to be superscum earlier, to boot... It'd be pretty hilarious if I started unjustified bandwagoning so soon after such a declaration. If you feel like voting against me, that's your prerogative. It's RVS, and I know what all of this hardassery intends to accomplish.

[markressler]

@Kamin, I've already said why I said that: I'm not a native english-speaker, sometimes I find it difficult to defend myself. What I've meant to say it's that I always look scummy for everybody, because I don't come up with the right words.

Is this the first time you play a game of forum mafia? I'm just curious.