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[markressler]

Seems like a stupid question, I know, but seeing he is an IC, if townie, it could help us better, I think.

[vodot]

[IC's + Tiruin: If I stay in the game my participation is going to drop to probably like 0.85 high-quality posts per day due to the aforementioned IRL ass-biting.  What would you prefer, that I RR like I currently am and bow out, or that I stick around with a significantly reduced level of participation?]

@vodot, you thought the possibility that we may think you prefer Jim off the game because you are scum and he is townie?

Yep. If he and I were even remotely evenly skilled, that's exactly what i'd do if I were scum. As it stands, don't be foolish: given the gap in our skill levels, regardless of how hard I tried to cloak my Jimbotting [can I use that as a verb?]  he would just eat me and move on. 

I think I feel so safe going after Jim because I know that he can spot my true alignment, right now, from ten miles away.  So if he's scum, we newbs had better start preparing for an epic battle against him or Shake. And if he's town, I have no real need to be concerned about him retaliating or eating me; he almost certainly knows my alignment already.

I'm not dismissing your concern. I think it's valid. I just know it is ultimately unmerited.

Seems like a stupid question, I know, but seeing he is an IC, if townie, it could help us better, I think.

See, this is the dangerous line of thinking I'm talking about.  Jim will still IC this game even if he's dead: there is no reason to fear lynching him based on his IC-ness and reputation alone.  Don't get complacent.

[Nerjin]

Shakerag-it's day 4. There are two people besides you left. One is not scummy, but a person who was voting him was nightkilled. The second player seems scummy, and you were voting him in the last round. Who would you vote for? (essentially, if you were in Hapah's position in the endgame of BM XXXIV, what would you do?)
markressler-if you could be any role that you wanted, which role would you be?
kamin-if you were the doctor, how would you choose how to save a player?

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

This is an interesting position to take my friend and one that will, inevitably, lead to being proven scum!

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

First of all your English seems fine enough right now. How is he being evil with you? Why aren’t you answering his question?

-wall of text-

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

Mark: What exactly would be "obvious" about somebody playing scum? You seem to know what scumminess entails, so please, regale me. Please be more detailed than simply saying something like "OMGUS," and keep the "I feel like everybody's a newb except for me" to a minimum.
-Text-
 

Also just because we’re in the RVS doesn’t mean you should toss around votes like they’re candy. That’s not really a scum thing that’s just how I happen to understand the game.

@vodot, yes, I do feel vulnerable. But now I'm trying my best to not look like that and actually do something.

Is that because you just so happen to be scum?

Also, unvote. Since I've admitted to vote just as a counter-vote, there's no point to not unvote.

So mark what you are saying is that you got caught in a OMGUS and then you took several posts to remove it? Why did it take you so long? Why did you keep your OMGUS vote going so long despite admitting pretty early that it was just that? Were you perhaps hoping that somebody would find reasons to doubt Kamin and then you could just say “Yeah that’s what I thought too!” because that seems the most likely possibility right now.

Also, Jim, I forgot to answer, yeah, I tend to freak out sometimes whether my alignment is because my lack of experience. Let some day pass and I will be more sure about what to do/what not to do.

So you’re saying “Let me find out what you people think are scumtells so that I can avoid detection in the future because right now I’m not sure despite having read up on mafia games in the past.” Panicking tells me you have something to hide. If you’re innocent than you should be able to convince us of this fact instead of going for pity points.

-Lots of text-
 Nerjin: You're scum with Wrex. Looking at how he's playing, what advice do you give him?
-Lots of text-
 

I’d tell him to quit lurking so much. It’s a pretty big scum-tell to me. At the very least it makes me suspicious of him so I’d tell him to get more involved. Sure he posts occasionally but it’s pretty rare and small stuff from what I’ve seen. Now what would you do Mr. Vodot?

[markressler]

You're really convinced I'm scum, don't you? You are seeking for 'evilness' where's nowhere to be found. I understand, I'm a suspect, you are a suspect, everybody is. But I think you are wasting your time with me, if those are your reasons to vote me. You saw my vulnerability and now you are trying to take advantage of it. I'm not saying this because it's me the one being voted, I'd think this if you were doing it to anybody else. It's easy to scum pick on the once-more vulnerable townie.

Nerjin, it's D1, you are scum. You saw how a townie started to dig his tomb and, once he noticed that, tried to fix it. Won't you try to get him lynched because of his first mistakes?

[Nerjin]

You're really convinced I'm scum, don't you? You are seeking for 'evilness' where's nowhere to be found. I understand, I'm a suspect, you are a suspect, everybody is. But I think you are wasting your time with me, if those are your reasons to vote me. You saw my vulnerability and now you are trying to take advantage of it. I'm not saying this because it's me the one being voted, I'd think this if you were doing it to anybody else. It's easy to scum pick on the once-more vulnerable townie.

Nerjin, it's D1, you are scum. You saw how a townie started to dig his tomb and, once he noticed that, tried to fix it. Won't you try to get him lynched because of his first mistakes?

I saw things that I thought were scummy. I'm not picking on you kiddo. We're all about as vulnerable as you I just haven't seen anyone with as many scum-tells. Feel free to prove me wrong. Instead of trying to guilt me out of this how about you explain all of those things.

To answer your "question" no I wouldn't do a thing. He's obviously made himself a target, why would I go out of my way to make myself a bigger target? If I were scum I'd just let things run their course.

[vodot]

You're really convinced I'm scum, don't you? You are seeking for 'evilness' where's nowhere to be found. I understand, I'm a suspect, you are a suspect, everybody is. But I think you are wasting your time with me, if those are your reasons to vote me. You saw my vulnerability and now you are trying to take advantage of it.

So if only his reasons were airtight, then it wouldn't be a waste of time for him to vote you?  Tell me: Why does your scumminess rest on HIS reasons and not YOUR alignment?

I think we're going to lynch you on D1, mark. I'm more than a little dissapointed that you're cool with it.

I’d tell him to quit lurking so much. It’s a pretty big scum-tell to me. At the very least it makes me suspicious of him so I’d tell him to get more involved. Sure he posts occasionally but it’s pretty rare and small stuff from what I’ve seen. Now what would you do Mr. Vodot?

I think I'd be taking out Shakerag's shovel. If I was feeling nice, I might just hand it to him to give him some help digging out of his massive hole. If not...

[vodot]

Oh and, the vote stays, Nerjin.  You're dogpiling on Mark like a bullied schoolboy looking for someone smaller to beat up on.

[markressler]

I'm not cool with it at all, his reasons doesn't seem valid to me. He is voting me because my lack of experience at the game? That's a waste of time.

[Shakerag]

Also just because we’re in the RVS doesn’t mean you should toss around votes like they’re candy. That’s not really a scum thing that’s just how I happen to understand the game.

[In my opinion, we started to leave the RVS phase around the 50-post mark and are certainly past the RVS phase around the 100-post mark.  I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to see if they can figure out why.]

And it takes little effort to win as scum in a Beginner's Mafia. No need to mastermind anything. It's easy to win when no one knows what the hell they're doing.

[And everyone lurks like sons of bitches.  Everyone go look at the previous Beginner's game to see a shining example.]

@Jim, I'm used to Mafiascum games, not because I've played there, because I've read a lot of games there. They play a bit different, because they have longer deadlines. They start the day asking dumb questions and such, they don't jump straight to ask questions like king's. I was mistaken to think that mafiascum and bay12 played the same, so I was a bit surprised with king's questions, and that was my reaction, ask him to answer his own questions.

[You're not the first, and you won't be the last.  Each board likely has its own flow that you have to feel out at first.  Especially if you're coming from face-to-face mafia to here.  Also, you're not the first non-native English speaker here either, so don't get too worried about that.]

I've already agreed that the counter-vote was stupid of me. I said that we were 'luckily' in the RVS because we have the chance to be mistaken, and still pull it off. I don't think I'd vote this happily if we are in D4 or something.

[Just to clarify things a bit.  The vote in the RVS phase is ... more like applying extra pressure to get your questioned answered than really being used as an indicator of who you're suspicious of.  Regardless, when you vote someone, you need reasons.  Voting someone along with a question to pressure them to answer it?  Fine.  Voting someone and stating why they're scum?  Great.  Just stating that you're putting a vote on someone?  Bzzt.]

Shakerag, if you think I'm one iota less suspicious of you than I am of Jim, you're wrong. How does your mafia philosophy differ from Jim's? How would you pick a great player like Jim apart if you suspected he was scum?

Oh good.  I always seem to evade notice of many players for some reason.  This gives me warm fuzzies.  However, you need to clarify your "philosophy" question, because just asking about my philosophy and how it differs from Jim's could be a thesis-level response. 

How would I pick apart Jim if I suspected he was scum?  [joke] I wouldn't.  I'd pray for an inspect result.  And even then, no guarantees. [/joke]  Against someone with an overwhelmingly strong day game, I'd be more looking to prove everyone else isn't scum, so that the remaining player is scum by process of elimination. 

Additionally, I ask you scum questions because I'd rather ask an excellent player I know is required to give me good answers and information about how he would play the scum side, since I am otherwise going to acquire exactly zero first-hand information about playing the scum side this game, until i read the scum chat and discuss the game with everyone afterward.

That's nice, but I'd expect scum to say the same things. 

[Kamin]

Wow, I've come back to quite the clusterfuck... Let's see if we can get some info out of this overload.

Oh and, the vote stays, Nerjin.  You're dogpiling on Mark like a bullied schoolboy looking for someone smaller to beat up on.

Vodot: How is Nerjin dogpiling? You pretty much said the same thing about me when I voted Mark, on my own volition, sometime after Shakerag did. The funny thing about this situation is that if he was "dogpiling" on somebody, it could only be true if he'd voted Wrex. Wrex had two votes previously, and Mark only had one (my own) when Nerjin voted... So in reality, it would seem Nerjin was keeping things even. He certainly hasn't voted as many times as you yourself have.

Now Vodot, I can see what you're doing. You're trying to lay down pressure and get people to break. I mean, you have voted for two different people; Jim right out of the gate, and now Nerjin for doing something you claim he didn't really do. But are you actually trying to help the Town by info mining, or actively deflecting attention by pointing the finger at everybody whose name doesn't start with a 'V'? I'm starting to really think you have something out for pretty much EVERYBODY...

I’d tell him to quit lurking so much. It’s a pretty big scum-tell to me. At the very least it makes me suspicious of him so I’d tell him to get more involved. Sure he posts occasionally but it’s pretty rare and small stuff from what I’ve seen. Now what would you do Mr. Vodot?

I think I'd be taking out Shakerag's shovel. If I was feeling nice, I might just hand it to him to give him some help digging out of his massive hole. If not...

Unvote

Except maybe Wrex. Now why would you sympathize with him? Is there some link between the two of you we're not aware of?

All of the vitriol and flying accusations--including the sheer number of your posts--just makes me wonder if you're not trying to compensate for being scum. What do you have to hide, Vodot? Maybe we won't be lynching Mark D1, after all... Which was a quick assumption to make, I might add. I actually worry we're going to lynch some sorry Townie without enough info (NOT that you're absolved, Mark). But losing a Townie on D1 isn't going to do my chances of winning any good at all. Why do you seem less concerned about that, Vodot?

And now for the Lurktrain...

Sox and Shakerag, are you enjoying the show yet? Two lurkers for the price of one, how convenient... So let me ask, if you were town, what would you think about lurkers? What would you do if there just so happened to be two lurkers, when there are also two Mafia still out and about? Perhaps I'm grasping at straws here, but I haven't seen anything very positive out of you two.

PPE: Just saw your post, Shakerag.

[Wrex]

Alright Wrex, coming off the back of Lurk-O-BM, when did you decide it was a good idea to lurk. Why are you not questioning? Also, why did you vote Vodot with only the statement " He seems pretty accusatory."? You have constantly made short posts, and have made no effort to question. So please tell me the reason.

Unvote
Have you not been watching? I have made plenty of questions. Not as much as the hyperactive lord of the text wall that is vodot :p Wsoxfan, consider yourself un FOS'd, I misread one of your earlier posts in the haze of "Been awake for far far too long". Now, I am a quiet fella. I enjoy watching people do this back and forth talky talky fest. It's fun. It's informative. But please notice that I have posted more often than shakerag has, although not to the same quantity. Is it because I don't make massive text walls disecting everyone's posts? Or is it because you saw a bandwagon forming and jumped on it, King?

Now, you may be asking why did I vote Vodot? Kamin stated the reason far more eloquently than I ever could. Applying pressure is a good thing, generally. But this is far more agressive than I have ever seen anyone play Mafia. It may be a personal style, or it may be a tell. I have no idea. Never played with him before. He is, however, performing better (I think) Than King, who is lurking harder than me.

Now, Nerjin....If Nerjin is scum, it would be easy, by a show of sympathy to someone who is under suspsiscion to deepen that suspiscion, hopefully getting an easy lynch off someone who is (hopefully) a power role. If that's what's going on, that's really clever of you. I'm watching you.

[vodot]

RE:Me being an aggressive ass
I apologize for overposting.  I'm pretty bitter about having to RR. Second, If you're reading the IC posts (or literally any other game of mafia), you'll know that voting a bunch early on, badgering, etc. serves a purpose and it's a good one.  Yes, I've been a hyperactive ass. Yes, I have a ton of exposure. I play a high-octane game, and I won't balk at apologizing for overreaching or making occasional mistakes.  A strong, mistake-making town is better than a skulking, apathetic town.

Except maybe Wrex. Now why would you sympathize with him?

I'm not sympathizing with Wrex. I'm pitying Wrex for starting so badly. While drawing attention to his bad start.  I've been a little wary of outright voting him (he's currently voting me), given my already high level of exposure.

But losing a Townie on D1 isn't going to do my chances of winning any good at all. Why do you seem less concerned about that, Vodot?

Because I'm not concerned about it. I was, at first: Please reread Tiruin or Jim's responses, in which they allay my fears about a D1 mislynch.

Vodot: How is Nerjin dogpiling?

Ok, Ok, I read the thread (which some hyperactive ass has filled up with HUGE posts) again, and it turns out that Nerjin WAS the first to FoS mark. He was technically at the bottom of the dogpile, then, with that early FoS.  What he DID do, though, was intensify his accusations and actually vote mark in a period when it seemed en vogue to do so, and that's what caused me to add that post about him dogpiling. I'm not saying that doing so makes him scum, I'm just drawing attention to the fact that he did it.

You pretty much said the same thing about me when I voted Mark, on my own volition, sometime after Shakerag did.

You voted mark two hours after Shake did, Kamin. Why do you feel such a need to distance yourself from that bandwagon?

Aaaand no, I'm not going to apologize for predicting that we'll lynch mark. It's nothing personal, I just think we will. And I still don't think he cares about it enough.

Looking for answers to my questions, Wrex and Jim.

Not as much as the hyperactive lord of the text wall that is vodot :p

I like that!

[vodot]

...but I will try to tone it down.

[vodot]

Wrex, no PM's about the game, please.

This is the question I'm talking about:

Wrex: In your opinion, do you see any players that seem to be conforming to the above scenario? (lurking, OMGUSing and WIFOMing, then getting suddenly calm/quiet or abruptly starting to scum hunt "unsuspiciously")? I'll suggest one for you, if you're having a hard time.

[Wrex]

@Vodot: Kingfisher looks far more suspiscious to me now than he did before. Overposting is an unorthodox straegy, to be sure, and it was silly of me to immediatly jump on you for that. However, King, on the other hand, lurks hard, and then picks a safe target, I.E Me. That is very suspiscious, simply because oh how unsuspiscious it looks. He is probably my top scumpick.

So:
@ Vodot: Why are you piting me? I can't learn if I don't make mistakes.
@Mark: You are scum, and have claimed cop to defend yourself. The (presumeably) real cop also claims. What do you do?
@King: You are doctor, but you are leading in votes, and claim as a last ditch defence. Someone else claims Doctor. How do you proceed?


Also, thank you for informing me. If you want to know what it was about, I was asking him to repeat his question so that I could answer it. I wasn't sure if "Please repeat your question" constituted as Game relevant.