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[Jim Groovester]

It shows up in the fucking votecount! Something from the flavor environment shows up in the votecount. This is unprecedented in a Meph game and especially in a bastard Meph game.

Why aren't any of you more interested in seeing what happens? Do any of you have any reason not to vote for it that isn't just speculation? Anyone? Anyone?

Yeah, it's cool, and unprecedented. But what are the next steps, in your mind? Keeping a vote or two on it is unlikely to have any additional effect (or if you think otherwise, say so). Keeping several more votes so it has majority will have the effect Meph already described: the second-most voted will be forced to activate the orb anyway (i.e., be lynched). While this second option does seem interesting, I think the price is too high: too many people voting skeleton instead of scumpicks means the lynch vote is not representative of who is scummiest. Do you think we should? Why?

Can you think of any other useful stuff to do with the skeleton other than voting it? Or that voting it without it achieving majority will reveal something new? Can anyone think of other things beside the skeleton that could be vote targets or otherwise find a new venue for flavour exploration?

I don't know what the next step is because I don't know what voting the fucking skeleton is going to do.

If it does nothing, whatever.

If it does something, cool, ask me the question again.

If the skeleton stands up and does a jig and pulls a 6-pack out of his rib cage, even better.

But I don't know what's going to happen until the skeleton gets fucking lynched.

Mephansteras never said for certain that the person second highest in votes would be the one to help the skeleton activate the Orb, he merely presented it as one option, so I think it's ultimately up to us how we decide who helps the skeleton along. I say Tiruin do it, because he already volunteered. And I think he's scum, so if the Orb fries him, I get everything I want out of Day 1.

And no, I can't think of any other venues for flavor exploration, but why bother with anything else when the skeleton's the only thing that did anything.

Since it bears repeating, the skeleton is the only flavor exploration that actually did anything. I don't know why so many of you are shitting on the only thing that showed any results.

Jim: I'm not interested in voting the skeleton at the moment because I want a baseline Judgment. Also, I think that the votes are moot, since the lynchee can effectively determine whether or not they use the skeleton to Activate independent of any votes. I get less sure of the second point the more I think about it though; since it's possible that touching the Orbs has nothing to do with activating them. We don't know what the activation mechanism is, though I guess we'll find out either when the statue responds or at lynch time.

Do you know how an Orb gets activated? Do you?

No, you don't. You can't make any assumptions about how who we select activates it so there's no way you can say that the lynchee can just touch bone finger to Orb as the first thing he does.

If you want to find out what the Orbs do, what's stopping us from learning how they work by using the skeleton? It's a perfect test dummy.

Jim, Shakerag: One question, why not try to save the Skeleton for tomorrow? The current standing obstacle are four orbs. Four days with the use of one orb each day. I don't think Meph said that the same orb can be used twice or something.

Why not today?

Why do you want to stall using the skeleton?

What do you know that you're not telling anyone else, scumbucket?

@Jim: Tiruin is stupid post. Part of the question asked (@ZU) was standard RVS, part joke-type. Know that this is practically my first Bastard game which I can comprehend fully and one where the puzzle stimulates much thought. Now, you've a vote on that skeleton because...it can be voted? Hmm. Well, since you're the pioneer of skeleton-voting, why aren't you pressing your target for information, or the secondary target [statue//Mod-related] for answers? Seemed like you were just goading me there for...giving off questions.

I was giving you shit for asking completely useless questions. You have not satisfactorily answered my concerns.

Man, I want you dead so badly. Almost enough to make me want to switch my vote from your precious fucking skeleton.

When? When do we see what happens? When enough people vote it? When someone votes it for long enough? When it's lynched? Meph has said somebody will need to touch it to the orb if it's lynched anyway, and I believe he's said that whoever's lynched can choose to touch it with the skelly as well, so it seems unlikely that it'll do anything except lynch the toucher. Do you have any reason to vote it that isn't speculation?

IT SHOWS UP IN THE FUCKING VOTE COUNT

NOT

SPECULATION

God damn, it's like you're opposing it because you have to, and you somehow think the best way to go about that is to parrot me to my face and say "we dont no wat wil happpen so we bettter not try"

Also, isn't flavor working at all unprecedented? I didn't notice any in the last bastard Para. Why not focus on conjuring shoes for ourselves or examining the environment more?

Try it all you want. There hasn't been any reason to think yet that RPing actually does anything useful and the mod's word on the matter makes it almost certain that it won't.

No one's stopping you from trying your RP. Not in the same way you're trying to stop me.

[Toaster]

Book:

Toaster:

It seemed to me his vote of the skeleton was not a sincere attempt to learn anything, but merely to waste time, given he didn't ask questions (to Meph) or stated a purpose or expected it to do anything.

How was it wasting time if it was done in RANDOM vote stage while the rest of his post is game-relevant content?  I think you're trying to make something out of nothing.

At the time it seemed suspect because he merely voted without adding anything (like questions to the mod or related flavour), and explicitly said he didn't expect it to work. I didn't consider it wasteful from the outset, I merely asked him "What do you hope to accomplish by this?" to which he replied basically "nothing", so I concluded he did it only to waste time. Why else do something you expect will accomplish nothing?

Tiruin, on the other hand, at least added some context to his flavour exploration, added some questions and speculation. It didn't seem wasteful in comparison. Only Jim's actually had an effect, though, so it wasn't wasteful after all. No big secret here.

I still disagree that it was wasted time in the first place- it's not like he did it exclusively.  If he wanted to take an extra five minutes to type out the vote, how is that a bad thing?  How is it suspect if he's hunting concurrently?

Also, this is fun:

Bottle: ... you accused Jim of wasting time ...

... It seemed to me his vote of the skeleton was not a sincere attempt to learn anything, but merely to waste time ...

I'm sensing a problem here.

I think you're trying to make something out of nothing; in this case by quote mining: you snipped the crucial part of my question to Bottle that explains this:

Your post was after Meph confirmed the skeleton as a vote target. Do you think it was a waste of time? [which he answered in the affirmative]

I initially thought Jim was wasting time. Once his vote stuck, I clearly was wrong and retracted it. Bottle, however, doubled-down on it and insisted it was still wasting time. Different, yes?

Did you not notice this relevant difference before you posted your question?

I'll grant I missed that difference between the two comments, but I think you're over-blowing the importance of the difference.  You can't determine if Jim was wasting time or not after he got a result- he didn't know ahead of time that it would work.  Either his typing time was wasted or not right after he was done typing.


Org:

Org: for the third time: please give your top suspicions and/or puzzle-related ideas, and ask IronyOwl and Deathsword a question.

I did give puzzle-related ideas. About the Skeleton.
Who might be something to do with the puzzle.

You seem awfully pushy here, Booky.

IronyOwl and Deathsword, what are your thoughts on the Skeleton?

Why is it bad that he's pushing you to hunt; something that you haven't been doing until prompted?  Seriously though, who is your top suspect?  What is your Irony vote worth now that he's answered you?


Hapah:  What value do you expect from judging a dead player?  Do you think their judgement would change?

(That said, it's probably a good idea to see if they are valid vote targets.)


Flavor thought:  I lean more toward lynching a player than the skeleton D1- knowing what exactly a judgement does may help determine what effect voting the skeleton will do.


Statue:  How much time do we have to decide?  Will time spent deciding affect the judgement in any way?

[Mephansteras]

Statue:  How much time do we have to decide?  Will time spent deciding affect the judgement in any way?

The Statue Speaks "You have until the fall of the moon. Since that cannot be seen, I shall warn you when your time is short."

[Tiruin]

The statue move a hand, and gestures to the four Orbs that flank it.

"All those who wish to leave this Room will be Judged."

"These Orbs shall test you. The Trial shall last 4 Days, and on each day One Orb may be used. You shall confer amongst yourselves, and one of you shall be selected to Activate an Orb. That one shall be Judged."

"Only one of true Majesty will be allowed to pass into the Tomb."

The statue falls silent once again.

...

I despise you...

Tiruin: How can you know the dead can't be judged?

I was referring to RL terms, bit confused my ideas there and wording at the time. I do now know that the dead can't be judged, but what I was thinking that the skeleton cannot be judged again -- Meph didn't answer my question on the point, but he also didn't confirm that the votes prove that the voted can be judged.

Because someone has to utilize that skeleton...

Also, thanks Deathsword for completely ignoring my post on you.


Jim

Jim, Shakerag: One question, why not try to save the Skeleton for tomorrow? The current standing obstacle are four orbs. Four days with the use of one orb each day. I don't think Meph said that the same orb can be used twice or something.

Why not today?

Why do you want to stall using the skeleton?

What do you know that you're not telling anyone else, scumbucket?

I know nothing about anything here, bro. Just my own speculations about that skeleton. I already stated why I am not voting that skeleton, and am currently confused why you keep on calling me scum, or suspect I am, without voting me instead.

It seems that you're preferring lynching the skeleton over who you see as scum. Scum.

Besides, what do you fear from using that skeleton? It's half a torso! Delving into mythological lore, nothing resembles a half-torso that sparkles...

But let me restate: Why are you so keen to lynching the skeleton on DAY 1? Do you want to test out the mechanic of someone utilizing the skeleton? Because that seems to be the result of vote-lynching the poor calcified body.


Statue! Please hearken onto my question. One person per day, per orb?

For we are more than four, and we shall all be tested through that method, then?

[Dariush]

Dar: The fact that we can apparently lynch the dead at all is nuts. I want to hear the statue's reply to my last question.

We aren't lynching the dead. We are merely making them touch the orb, and I'm still convinced this either won't do anything or will assume we picked the second guy in votes.

No, we were not exposed and no, it wouldn't be like saying that. Where did you even get that from? I explained what I meant by 'survivors' in detail in my previoud post.

Why not? This guy probably died of more or less being lynched, didn't he? So wouldn't it be exactly like that?

Wait what? You just directly contradicted yourself. In your previous post you said that we don't know what killed him and now you say that you're certain that his death for caused by being 'lynched' (or rather touching the orb, for people who can understand that red text may not only mean death). And in any case, we don't know that he actually died because of the orb. He might as well have been wounded in one of the traps, touched the orb, saw that nothing happened and lay there dying.

I wanted to contrast the fact that we survived until now with the fact that this guy didn't. So, 'everyone else who isn't this guy take this guy and touches the orb with his hand instead of somehow making him touch the orb on his own'.

But okay, let's use your more elaborate quote.

Why? Why did you want to contrast the fact that we're alive and he isn't? What made that significant and important in your mind?

Are you kidding me? That's seriously the most important thing you have to vote someone over in a semi-bastard? REALLY, IO? REALLY? But oh well, I'll indulge you: I wanted to make it clear that someone else touches the orb with the skeleton's hand, someone who doesn't belong to the 'dead' group, but rather someone who belongs to 'survivor' group. Do you get it or do I have to break down the meaning of the words 'alive', 'dead', 'group' and 'touch'?

[Mephansteras]

Statue! Please hearken onto my question. One person per day, per orb?

For we are more than four, and we shall all be tested through that method, then?

The Statue Speaks "All Shall be Judged"

[IronyOwl]

Deathsword:

IO: I thought your questions were rhetorical. Since apparently they are not, I'll try to answer them: With this many players, it's impossible for more than one person not to think the same thing. Would you have preferred if I stayed completely silent because someone said what I wanted to say already? Also, how can we know if there is even a scum team on a bastard game?

Did you completely miss Bookthras' answers (both times), or were they unsatisfactory in some way?

I'd have preferred if you found something useful to do; repeating someone else's questions is pretty close to staying completely silent anyway, isn't it?

We can assume there's a scumteam because a scumteam is an essential part of mafia and this is only a semi-bastard. If you want to ignore a critical, basic part of the game, you'd better have a damned good reason, not just "it's a bastard so who knows." I mean, hey, how can we know the orbs matter at all if it's a bastard? We can't, let's just ignore them! That'll let us win.

But, just to clarify, your complete lack of scumhunting is because you don't think there's a scumteam? Why is that, and when did you start feeling that way?


ZU:

Well, Majestic more or less means "King-like," right? Having the unanimous support of your people or being above reproach could mean that.
That said, I'm beginning to think that's unlikely.

Maybe having unanimous support. Having no votes is too common to be majestic.

Hmm... what if there's a kingmaker type role? And if the "kinged" guy touches the orbs he wins?

Yeah, but that'd imply "support" exists as a vague concept or that voting people was showing support for them. Which isn't completely out of the question, I'll admit.

Kingmaker role is an interesting theory. I'd think that'd make the game too easy, though, since all you need is one confirmed townie to win the game.


Jim:

Mephansteras never said for certain that the person second highest in votes would be the one to help the skeleton activate the Orb, he merely presented it as one option, so I think it's ultimately up to us how we decide who helps the skeleton along.

And this doesn't decrease its significance in your eyes?

Think of a normal lynch, say in Para. Somebody has to actually do the deed, yes? But there's no need to decide who, because it's perfectly irrelevant; it's just fluff with no in-game bearing whatsoever.

For this, though, it actually matters. We can't just say "lynch the skeleton" and have it be done, we've got to figure out who's going to carry it over there. What does that tell you? Because it implies to me that the skeleton doesn't do anything on its own, and that the important part of that equation is who's actually carrying the damned thing.

IT SHOWS UP IN THE FUCKING VOTE COUNT

NOT

SPECULATION

If you don't have the slightest fucking clue what, if anything, will happen, it's speculation.

God damn, it's like you're opposing it because you have to, and you somehow think the best way to go about that is to parrot me to my face and say "we dont no wat wil happpen so we bettter not try"

Or like I don't want some halfassed lynch D1 because people were voting the skeleton and not who they actually suspected.

No one's stopping you from trying your RP. Not in the same way you're trying to stop me.

That's because my RP doesn't hurt anything. If you think we can organize switching votes over so that whoever we want dead ends up as the skeleton's helper, I guess I'd approve.



Slightly rushed, will get around to Dariush later.

[IronyOwl]

Dariush:

No, we were not exposed and no, it wouldn't be like saying that. Where did you even get that from? I explained what I meant by 'survivors' in detail in my previoud post.

Why not? This guy probably died of more or less being lynched, didn't he? So wouldn't it be exactly like that?

Wait what? You just directly contradicted yourself. In your previous post you said that we don't know what killed him and now you say that you're certain that his death for caused by being 'lynched' (or rather touching the orb, for people who can understand that red text may not only mean death). And in any case, we don't know that he actually died because of the orb. He might as well have been wounded in one of the traps, touched the orb, saw that nothing happened and lay there dying.

No I didn't. We don't know what killed him, but it looks a lot like the orb; I even put the "probably" in there. This looks like a reeeeeeally weak attempt at trying to get me off you, especially since you didn't answer the question except with "we're not sure."

So, let's go into that a bit more. What do you think lynching someone does? What do you think touching the orbs does? What do you think that skeleton died from? What do you think most of us are going to die from?

I wanted to contrast the fact that we survived until now with the fact that this guy didn't. So, 'everyone else who isn't this guy take this guy and touches the orb with his hand instead of somehow making him touch the orb on his own'.

But okay, let's use your more elaborate quote.

Why? Why did you want to contrast the fact that we're alive and he isn't? What made that significant and important in your mind?

Are you kidding me? That's seriously the most important thing you have to vote someone over in a semi-bastard? REALLY, IO? REALLY? But oh well, I'll indulge you: I wanted to make it clear that someone else touches the orb with the skeleton's hand, someone who doesn't belong to the 'dead' group, but rather someone who belongs to 'survivor' group. Do you get it or do I have to break down the meaning of the words 'alive', 'dead', 'group' and 'touch'?

Oh? What does being a bastard have to do with bizarre, suspicious wording? Am I supposed to just take it for granted that you're a survivor or something?

And I get that, but I don't get why you had that dead/alive distinction in mind in the first place. What was going through your head when you figured long-dead NPCs and living players were two valid groups you needed to distinguish between?

[Jim Groovester]

I know nothing about anything here, bro. Just my own speculations about that skeleton. I already stated why I am not voting that skeleton, and am currently confused why you keep on calling me scum, or suspect I am, without voting me instead.

It seems that you're preferring lynching the skeleton over who you see as scum. Scum.

It should be really fucking obvious that I suspect you, but I am much more interested in seeing what voting the skeleton does first.

Besides, what do you fear from using that skeleton? It's half a torso! Delving into mythological lore, nothing resembles a half-torso that sparkles...

It's a fucking skeleton.

I have nothing to fear from it. Beside that this game is Supernatural and the possibility of necromancy.

But currently, nothing.

Also, where did you get the idea that the skeleton is a half-torso?

But let me restate: Why are you so keen to lynching the skeleton on DAY 1? Do you want to test out the mechanic of someone utilizing the skeleton? Because that seems to be the result of vote-lynching the poor calcified body.

The vote is selecting people to be judged. I want to see what happens if the skeleton is selected to be judged.

I have been saying this for a while now. Why are you asking useless questions (again) that you should already know the answer to (again)?

Jim:

Mephansteras never said for certain that the person second highest in votes would be the one to help the skeleton activate the Orb, he merely presented it as one option, so I think it's ultimately up to us how we decide who helps the skeleton along.

And this doesn't decrease its significance in your eyes?

Think of a normal lynch, say in Para. Somebody has to actually do the deed, yes? But there's no need to decide who, because it's perfectly irrelevant; it's just fluff with no in-game bearing whatsoever.

For this, though, it actually matters. We can't just say "lynch the skeleton" and have it be done, we've got to figure out who's going to carry it over there. What does that tell you? Because it implies to me that the skeleton doesn't do anything on its own, and that the important part of that equation is who's actually carrying the damned thing.

What the fuck is your point? I honestly don't know.

Can you tell me what that is so that I don't have to spend forever arguing with you in circles about nothing?

If you don't have the slightest fucking clue what, if anything, will happen, it's speculation.

That's not the meaning of the word at all.

I don't know what's going to happen, but I've never claimed to. This is, notably, not speculation on my part.

This is why I want you to clarify what your point is, because this is totally fucking irrelevant.

God damn, it's like you're opposing it because you have to, and you somehow think the best way to go about that is to parrot me to my face and say "we dont no wat wil happpen so we bettter not try"

Or like I don't want some halfassed lynch D1 because people were voting the skeleton and not who they actually suspected.

I don't have a problem with people not wanting to vote the skeleton because they'd rather be doing something else. I have a problem with people trying to talk me out of it based on bullshit flavor speculation and guesses.

If you think we can organize switching votes over so that whoever we want dead ends up as the skeleton's helper, I guess I'd approve.

I want Tiruin to do it. Coincidentally, it appears he volunteered. What say you to that? Mind you, Meph mentioned a volunteer could puppeteer the skeleton.

[Tiruin]

Also, where did you get the idea that the skeleton is a half-torso?

Your eyes follow to the Orbs, and you noticed a skeleton lying on the ground before one of the Orbs. It lies half-buried in a thick layer of shimmering dust.

And Meph stated it's fragility so...that half-torso thought.

Also, just because I volunteered (IC, you can see the contradiction in the same sentence) is why you want me, exactly, to test it out while you fervently go after vote > Skeleton? Second-in-line-for-votes seems to be the one to manipulate the skeleton.

Yeah.  Useless question, ahoy. Let's not question everything else, like the circumstances of the skeleton and judgement, but focus on how useless my questions are.

[Dariush]

TUNNEL TUNNEL CHUNNEL TUNNEL
This looks like a reeeeeeally weak attempt at trying to get me off you, especially since you didn't answer the question except with "we're not sure."
TUNNEL TUNNEL CHUNNEL TUNNEL
bizarre, suspicious wording
TUNNEL TUNNEL CHUNNEL TUNNEL

Oh yes, I answered the question in exactly that way. You know why? Because we're not sure. Also, of course defending against your bullshittastic attacks counts as 'trying to get you off me'. Obviously. That was sarcasm.

Saying 'survivor' to depict living people is biza-a-arre, suspi-i-icious wording. 'kay, got that.

You aren't even trying to disguise the fact that you're shamelessly trying to tunnel me without any reason whatsoever, scum.

[Hapah]

Wow. Lots of activity!

Statue: Has the Skeleton already been Judged?

If the skeleton stands up and does a jig and pulls a 6-pack out of his rib cage, even better.

That would be fucking awesome.

Hapah:  What value do you expect from judging a dead player?  Do you think their judgement would change?

(That said, it's probably a good idea to see if they are valid vote targets.)

I don't think their Judgment would change, no. But there's probably some sort of NK floating around, yeah?

Dar: The fact that we can apparently lynch the dead at all is nuts. I want to hear the statue's reply to my last question.

We aren't lynching the dead. We are merely making them touch the orb, and I'm still convinced this either won't do anything or will assume we picked the second guy in votes.

Splitting hairs, but yeah. We can vote a corpse. I'm kinda thinking we might be able to vote dead people for some purpose, and Bones is our way to figure this out D1. But it's just speculation until someone steps up the plate and we enter D2.

I'll be checking in again in the morning.

[zombie urist]

Beside that this game is Supernatural and the possibility of necromancy.

This is an interesting point. Dunno what to make of it though.

Yeah.  Useless question, ahoy. Let's not question everything else, like the circumstances of the skeleton and judgement, but focus on how useless my questions are.

Deflection.

Everyone who is voting the skelly, who are your second picks?

[Tiruin]

Yeah.  Useless question, ahoy. Let's not question everything else, like the circumstances of the skeleton and judgement, but focus on how useless my questions are.

Deflection.

I was referring to his not questioning the statue but attacking my questioning.

Feeling guilty there, ZU? Who are your picks and basically, no response to the one you voted? Keeping it on Org like that.

And...did you just compliment Jim's necromancy point without anything else to add?

[Mephansteras]

Statue: Has the Skeleton already been Judged?

The Statue Speaks "He was Judged Unworthy"