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[Org]

Goddammit, am I not speaking English? Did I turn invisible or something?

Zombie:

"Also, what the hell was up with that orb? Why do you even have it?"

I answered this clearly: I had it because I conjured it up in flavour. You can have one too, they're free. What was up with it? Just testing Meph. It turned out not to be a real orb. Both were obvious from the original context (when I made them) and in the reply to you with context restored. How is this unanswered? You even said "oh, ok"... what did you mean by that if you thought the question was unanswered?

Org: for the third time: please give your top suspicions and/or puzzle-related ideas, and ask IronyOwl and Deathsword a question.

I did give puzzle-related ideas. About the Skeleton.
Who might be something to do with the puzzle.

You seem awfully pushy here, Booky.

IronyOwl and Deathsword, what are your thoughts on the Skeleton?

[Hapah]

Hapah: Don't drink and post. 
Nevertheless, let's say you're an exorcist! Will you use your powers on our skeleton here to find out more on it, or will you relent and use powers on something else? Meaning: Will you focus on figuring out the puzzle//bastardiness of this set-up, or on hunting scum?

I'm more concerned about the puzzle, for the simple fact that it's damn hard to win a game when you don't know the rules. Still need to find the scum, assuming there is even a traditional "scum" team.

Dude, didn't you see the "each person has one vote" thing? How do you propose you could go for both? (incidentally, it also likely means no enchanters, or whatever their Supernatural equivalent would be). Also, the skeleton can't be the only one who goes... because he already went! It's dead, Jim (uh, Org).

I think Org meant pile votes onto the skeleton as well as the lynchee, so that the lynchee is forced to use the skeleton. Moot point though, more on that below.

Here's the thing, folks. Voting on the skeleton is probably pointless. Talking about whether or not to use it is good, sure, but the votes are meaningless. The reason is that there's no way we could actually force someone to use it, because there's (probably) nothing stopping the lynchee from poking the orb just before day ends. By the same token, I don't see anything stopping the lynchee from using the skeleton on the orb just before the day ends by just posting in the thread or PM'ing Meph. The fact that we've got a rather high-quality lineup here and nobody has pointed this out yet is more than a little unnerving.

For what it's worth, I believe that we should not use the skeleton on the Orb, at least D1. We need the information on how the Orbs work and what they do, and we need the information to be as clean and clear-cut as possible: taking a "what if?" variable out of the equation seems like a very good idea. I'm all for revisiting the idea D2 when we've got at least some clue as to what the damned Orbs do, but we should keep things simple, at least for now.

I'll EBWOP now, I'd like to get this out.

[Hapah]

All: Your thoughts on the above. Am I missing something?

DS, Jim, Shake: Especially you three. Can you make a case for keeping your vote on the skeleton?

RL happened, but I'll check back in before bed.

[IronyOwl]

Jim:

Could you elaborate on why Bookthras or Orangebottle when your vote is on Dariush?

And elaborate your opinion on all of those players while you're at it.

They were the ones poo-pooing flavor, so it made the most sense to have them be the flavor minesweepers.

OB I'm uncertain of. He was opposing trying to figure out how the game works, which is scummy, but his withdrawal might mean he was stressed out and addled rather than just scum. I'd still like to know more about ZU, however.

Bookthras I think answered satisfactorily about jumping on you for the skeleton but not Tiruin for the statue. My read on him is fairly neutral otherwise.

Speaking of which, are you still voting the skeleton? What for?


Dariush:

Survivors = everyone who isn't the dead guy. Aren't you alive? Because I'm pretty sure I am.

But we haven't been exposed to what killed the dead guy yet. This would be like saying "everyone who hasn't been lynched," wouldn't it?


Hapah:

Toaster: lol, DERP. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Thank you.

So you forgot your own RVS question, thought you'd caught scum, and didn't bother to go back and confirm?


Bookthras:

Org, Deathsword, IronyOwl: please get more involved, give your top suspicions and/or puzzle-related ideas, and ask each other a question.

But I don't waaaaaaaaaanna.

Top suspicions are Deathsword and Shakerag for extreme laziness, and Dariush for suspicious phrasing. Puzzle-wise I think whoever uses the skelly will count as touching themselves, and that we should generally ignore it unless we have a reason not to. No real ideas on what precisely touching the orbs does, though I assume it to be bad for the person in question.


Deathsword:

Toaster and Bookthras: I do not currently have a real suspect (as in: enough to warrant a vote), but from what I've gathered, Book tends to consider experimentation in bastards importat, yet he attacks Jim for voting the skeleton while completly ignoring Tiruin voting the statue. This seems a bit strange. Book, why complain about Jim's vote and not Tiruin's?

That said, I'm very curious to see what happens when The Skeleton touches the orb. I guess whomever has the most votes (skeleton aside) should be the one to make it's hand touch the orb.

Meph didn't say specifically that the one with the most votes will be the one to make the skeleton touch it. He also suggested that someone may volunteer to handle the skeleton even if they are not about to be lynched. I was simply stating my opinion that I think it's best if whomever has the most votes should handle the skeleton.

Why are you so lazy?

You have no suspicions and no intention of scumhunting, and your only contributions are a verbatim parrot of someone else's already answered questions and suggesting whoever we lynch should use the skeleton. Did you completely miss Bookthras' answers (both times), or were they unsatisfactory in some way? Did you know you were asking exactly what someone else asked at the time?

Also, doesn't it seem extremely lazy and passive to vote for "whoever we decide as scum should use the skeleton" rather than, you know, an actual target?


Org:

IronyOwl and Deathsword, what are your thoughts on the Skeleton?

Tentatively think it's a waste of time; I sort of doubt touching an orb with it will be any different from just touching it yourself. Also, thinking about this has given me a thought.

In the meantime though, why aren't you scumhunting more? You've been fairly free with bastard speculation, but I haven't really seen any suspects out of you yet.



Everyone-ish:

Here's the thing, folks. Voting on the skeleton is probably pointless. Talking about whether or not to use it is good, sure, but the votes are meaningless. The reason is that there's no way we could actually force someone to use it, because there's (probably) nothing stopping the lynchee from poking the orb just before day ends. By the same token, I don't see anything stopping the lynchee from using the skeleton on the orb just before the day ends by just posting in the thread or PM'ing Meph. The fact that we've got a rather high-quality lineup here and nobody has pointed this out yet is more than a little unnerving.

For what it's worth, I believe that we should not use the skeleton on the Orb, at least D1. We need the information on how the Orbs work and what they do, and we need the information to be as clean and clear-cut as possible: taking a "what if?" variable out of the equation seems like a very good idea. I'm all for revisiting the idea D2 when we've got at least some clue as to what the damned Orbs do, but we should keep things simple, at least for now.

I think you're overstating how important it is, since as you say someone can just use the skelly anyway if they really want to, but I'm sort of in favor of this anyway. I think the fact that we only get four days sort of precludes any major changes with the skeleton, because we just don't have enough tries to figure out much in the way of patterns.


Also, something occurred to me regarding "Majesty." Supposing it's vote-related? Having everyone or no one in the game voting for you could arguably be fairly Majestic, right?

[zombie urist]

"Also, what the hell was up with that orb? Why do you even have it?"

I answered this clearly: I had it because I conjured it up in flavour. You can have one too, they're free. What was up with it? Just testing Meph. It turned out not to be a real orb. Both were obvious from the original context (when I made them) and in the reply to you with context restored. How is this unanswered? You even said "oh, ok"... what did you mean by that if you thought the question was unanswered?

Not clearly enough. First I thought you "flavored" the orb out of thin air, then didn't, and now do.

It's my own theory.
My theory is that perhaps one has to leave behind their body after an Orb is activated, which is a sacrifice.
I don't really know, that's why it is a theory.
I'm saying that we should be sure that who we want lynched is the guy to press the Skeleton's hand if it happens to ignore Mr. Skelly.

Org I feel that you're hiding some information. Did you spontaneously think up this theory? Is your vote on IO just pressure? Do you have any nominations for touching the orb?

The reason is that there's no way we could actually force someone to use it, because there's (probably) nothing stopping the lynchee from poking the orb just before day ends.

I mostly agree. However, why would we have to force someone to use it? The mod already confirmed that there doesn't seem to be anything stopping a person from touching the orb.

Also, something occurred to me regarding "Majesty." Supposing it's vote-related? Having everyone or no one in the game voting for you could arguably be fairly Majestic, right?

No. I don't see how that would be majestic.

[Tiruin]

PFP

Alright, I'm confounded on why the current train of thought went on the Skeleton that Jim firstly voted...What's up with him?!

Hey everyone, I'll try moving that skeleton if nobody wants to...But hell, I don't want to use that thing on D1. Seems like a waste of our vote.

((Based on Reply #126, and my stance on skeleton == no lynch option thing))

Tiruin:

So like the other games Meph made, other than scumhunting, you say that flavor is an aide to winning?

Yes, but indirectly: understanding the flavour will help solve the puzzle, which ought to be necessary for a path to victory, but should not distract from the hunting which I expect will still be crucial. However, I think you know this, and know that I think so, so your question reads like temporising or buddying; how about your scum suspicions so far or non-flavour related insights?

I haven't done enough for a re-read, but atm posting. Will return ~7 hours later for a better read as due to timezones, I'm still ahead of the day end.


DS

Here now.

Toaster and Bookthras: I do not currently have a real suspect (as in: enough to warrant a vote), but from what I've gathered, Book tends to consider experimentation in bastards importat, yet he attacks Jim for voting the skeleton while completly ignoring Tiruin voting the statue. This seems a bit strange. Book, why complain about Jim's vote and not Tiruin's?

That said, I'm very curious to see what happens when The Skeleton touches the orb. I guess whomever has the most votes (skeleton aside) should be the one to make it's hand touch the orb.

So you point out that Book's complaining about the Skeleton and Mine on the surrounding details, then continue to vote the skeleton...Um, why? I'm seeing that skeleton as a no-lynch option (and if not, I'm making it touch that orb anyway) so why do you want to see the skeleton dead other than anyone here primarily?


Jim: So as you're still keeping your vote on that skeleton...um, why? Sure it would be for trying things out, but now we know that it is a variable in the quest to bypass them orbs. I mean, without any Priest (or something, I'm still matching up those roles with their normal counterparts), that skeleton would stay there and be...a skeleton.

Meph

See, now that's interesting.  Mr. Bones appears to be a valid vote target- the Meph and Statue votes failed.


Meph:  Can we just throw the skeleton at the orb so no one is touching the skeleton when it impacts?  Is there enough connective tissue remaining so it's largely hanging together, or all the bones separate?

The skeleton will fall apart if picked up. You could throw bones at the Orb, but you have no way of knowing if that would do anything.

The Orbs seem to be the same, and no indication has been given as to which Orb to touch.

So...by picked up you mean we can't utilize the skeleton at all? Do the orbs need to be in physical contact with anyone to work?

[Org]

"Also, what the hell was up with that orb? Why do you even have it?"

I answered this clearly: I had it because I conjured it up in flavour. You can have one too, they're free. What was up with it? Just testing Meph. It turned out not to be a real orb. Both were obvious from the original context (when I made them) and in the reply to you with context restored. How is this unanswered? You even said "oh, ok"... what did you mean by that if you thought the question was unanswered?

Not clearly enough. First I thought you "flavored" the orb out of thin air, then didn't, and now do.

It's my own theory.
My theory is that perhaps one has to leave behind their body after an Orb is activated, which is a sacrifice.
I don't really know, that's why it is a theory.
I'm saying that we should be sure that who we want lynched is the guy to press the Skeleton's hand if it happens to ignore Mr. Skelly.

Org I feel that you're hiding some information. Did you spontaneously think up this theory? Is your vote on IO just pressure? Do you have any nominations for touching the orb?

The reason is that there's no way we could actually force someone to use it, because there's (probably) nothing stopping the lynchee from poking the orb just before day ends.

I mostly agree. However, why would we have to force someone to use it? The mod already confirmed that there doesn't seem to be anything stopping a person from touching the orb.

Also, something occurred to me regarding "Majesty." Supposing it's vote-related? Having everyone or no one in the game voting for you could arguably be fairly Majestic, right?

No. I don't see how that would be majestic.

I spontaneously made up that theory.
My vote was for Irony to make sure he answered the question.
I'm not sure yet on the last bit, because I'm not sure to the full extent of what happens to somewhen after they are Judged.

[Mephansteras]

So...by picked up you mean we can't utilize the skeleton at all? Do the orbs need to be in physical contact with anyone to work?

You may attempt to use the Skeleton, but it would fragment into bones when disturbed. What effect using the various bones on an Orb would have is unknown.

You have not been told how to activate an Orb.

[Hapah]

Hapah:

Toaster: lol, DERP. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Thank you.

So you forgot your own RVS question, thought you'd caught scum, and didn't bother to go back and confirm?

I derped, yes.

Everyone-ish:

Here's the thing, folks. Voting on the skeleton is probably pointless. Talking about whether or not to use it is good, sure, but the votes are meaningless. The reason is that there's no way we could actually force someone to use it, because there's (probably) nothing stopping the lynchee from poking the orb just before day ends. By the same token, I don't see anything stopping the lynchee from using the skeleton on the orb just before the day ends by just posting in the thread or PM'ing Meph. The fact that we've got a rather high-quality lineup here and nobody has pointed this out yet is more than a little unnerving.

For what it's worth, I believe that we should not use the skeleton on the Orb, at least D1. We need the information on how the Orbs work and what they do, and we need the information to be as clean and clear-cut as possible: taking a "what if?" variable out of the equation seems like a very good idea. I'm all for revisiting the idea D2 when we've got at least some clue as to what the damned Orbs do, but we should keep things simple, at least for now.

I think you're overstating how important it is, since as you say someone can just use the skelly anyway if they really want to, but I'm sort of in favor of this anyway. I think the fact that we only get four days sort of precludes any major changes with the skeleton, because we just don't have enough tries to figure out much in the way of patterns.

Yeah, since the lynchee (or anyone, really) could short-circuit the whole skeleton thing either for or against when they're lynched, there's not much use voting for it. Talking about it could be useful, sure, but the votes are meaningless. PPE: And apparently we can't keep the skeleton whole anyway, and I'm not sure what poking an orb with a dead man's shin would accomplish.

Also, something occurred to me regarding "Majesty." Supposing it's vote-related? Having everyone or no one in the game voting for you could arguably be fairly Majestic, right?

Hrm. It's a bit of a stretch, but it's better than anything I've got. There are no hammers, right?

ZU: I meant force the lynchee to use the skeleton to touch the orb. But we can't make them do that, because they can just waltz up and poke the orb if they wanted, so voting the skeleton is a waste of time.

You have not been told how to activate an Orb.

Well now, that's interesting. I kinda assumed it would be intuitive: touch, pick up, something like that.

Deathsword: The others have a point, you haven't contributed much on either the scumhunting or puzzle portions of the game. I'll admit I'm probably more tied into the puzzle than I should be, though. You're attacking Book on a point that he has already addressed, and for asking you to participate. Get your hands dirty with the rest of us! And get your vote off the skeleton, please, or explain why you think it belongs there.

This was a little rushed, so sorry about that. I'll read any new comments in the morning with my coffee!

[Jim Groovester]

DS, Jim, Shake: Especially you three. Can you make a case for keeping your vote on the skeleton?

Speaking of which, are you still voting the skeleton? What for?

Jim: So as you're still keeping your vote on that skeleton...um, why? Sure it would be for trying things out, but now we know that it is a variable in the quest to bypass them orbs. I mean, without any Priest (or something, I'm still matching up those roles with their normal counterparts), that skeleton would stay there and be...a skeleton.

It shows up in the fucking votecount!

Something from the flavor environment shows up in the votecount. This is unprecedented in a Meph game and especially in a bastard Meph game.

Why aren't any of you more interested in seeing what happens?

Do any of you have any reason not to vote for it that isn't just speculation? Anyone? Anyone?

Huh. Because you know what isn't speculation? That it shows up in the vote count. You know. Something that's never happened before.

Bookthras I think answered satisfactorily about jumping on you for the skeleton but not Tiruin for the statue. My read on him is fairly neutral otherwise.

So Bookthras oddly opposing experimentation in a bastard game isn't cause for concern for you at all?

Hey everyone, I'll try moving that skeleton if nobody wants to...But hell, I don't want to use that thing on D1. Seems like a waste of our vote.

How generous of you. If you're feeling this generous, why don't you touch an Orb for yourself, and let us all know what happens.

In the meantime, why don't you give me some sort of justification for why you asked all those useless questions, scumface.

[Dariush]

Survivors = everyone who isn't the dead guy. Aren't you alive? Because I'm pretty sure I am.

But we haven't been exposed to what killed the dead guy yet. This would be like saying "everyone who hasn't been lynched," wouldn't it?

No, we were not exposed and no, it wouldn't be like saying that. Where did you even get that from? I explained what I meant by 'survivors' in detail in my previoud post.

That said, I'm very curious to see what happens when The Skeleton touches the orb. I guess whomever has the most votes (skeleton aside) should be the one to make it's hand touch the orb.

Again, really? Are you going to parrot the same thought again, even though it has already been answered by Meph that yes, whoever has the most votes (skeleton aside) will be the one touching it?

Vote Deathsword until he has an original thought. Also dude, I asked you to ask a question of Org and IronyOwl. An original one, please.

This is fucking hilarious. 'Parrot the same thought'? Are you implying that everyone has to come up with their own solution for the puzzle and anybody who uses someone else's must be lynched?

Also, you didn't answer my question about why Tiruin's vote of the statue is beneath your notice, despite claiming otherwise. Also, while rereading your posts in search of the answer I found a little scummy gem:

In all honesty, I was about to out of this game right before Meph locked the thread for day start. Replace me.

Oh, running away, are you? Come back 'ere and get what's coming to you!

Perhaps the questions were getting to you? I think you're just chickening out and trying to give a replacement scum a clean slate. How about you touch the orb thingy on your way out, like Irony suggested? If it's a waste of time it can't hurt, right?

This is just best ever. OB has outed from at least two games (this one and BYOLOLC), yet for some reason you consider this 'running away'. And by 'some reason' I mean 'you are looking for the easiest lynches possible'. Yeah, you're scum.

[Bookthras]

Skeleton stuff:
First, let's list what we know about it:

Spoiler: Meph's posts, with bit of commentary (click to show/hide)

The Vote Tally
Skeleton: Jim Groovester

It shows up in vote counts.

The skeleton is wearing rags. Looks like it's been here a very long time.

The positioning, flavour and age suggest it was a previous visitor who activated an orb and died thereafter.

You have not been told how to activate an Orb.

Yes, Lynching a person involves having them Activate an Orb.

Activating an orb (though we haven't been told how) is the lynch.

People are welcome to vote for the Skeleton. If the Skeleton is Lynched, then someone will need to actually use the skeleton to Activate the Orb. Who does that could be voluntary, or forced by being second-place in votes. No matter how or when it is achieved, Activating an Orb will end the day.

Lynching the Skeleton is not a no-lynch; someone (player with most votes or volunteer) will still need to activate the Orb, with or without the skeleton.

You are not sure if you will be able to avoid Activating an Orb or not.

That "you are not sure you can avoid" coupled with the "the game will last four days" reads to me like nolynching will not be an option.

Meph:  On that note, is there anything stopping anyone from just running up and touching an orb of their own accord?

Not that you're aware of, no.

The end of day may (as far as we are aware) be triggered prematurely by a volunteer effectively self-hammering. I really doubt anyone, town or scum, is going to knowingly do that, though, so I read that as "there are no jesters", and consider the volunteering thing an extremely low-probability scenario.

Putting these together, I think a vote for the skeleton is useless as far as it pertains to actually finding/lynching scum. It may have some flavour value, but it's also giving up your vote for who you actually think is scum, and is mechanically equivalent to not voting.

To address specific comments:

Here's the thing, folks. Voting on the skeleton is probably pointless. Talking about whether or not to use it is good, sure, but the votes are meaningless. [...] For what it's worth, I believe that we should not use the skeleton on the Orb, at least D1.

I generally agree on the first part. For the second, less so: for starters, we can't really control it, whoever is the lynch target will choose for themselves whether to use the skeleton or not (and may be miffed at being lynched, and thus unwilling to follow suggestion); the only way to force it seems to be for the skeleton to have majority votes, which means three or more people actually voting the skeleton, and therefore not voting their scum pick, which would skew the actual lynch result too much. We probably do not want that.

((Based on Reply #126, and my stance on skeleton == no lynch option thing))
I'm seeing that skeleton as a no-lynch option (and if not, I'm making it touch that orb anyway) so why do you want to see the skeleton dead other than anyone here primarily?

I really don't think the skeleton is a no-lynch option, based on opening flavour and Meph's comments above. I also don't think you want to volunteer to activate the orb, with or without the skeleton, unless you harbour a deathwish. Plus if you do activate it, it will trigger the end of day.
... plus "why do you want to see the skeleton dead"? Really? Dude, it's a skeleton! it's already dead! Has been for a long time.

It shows up in the fucking votecount! Something from the flavor environment shows up in the votecount. This is unprecedented in a Meph game and especially in a bastard Meph game.

Why aren't any of you more interested in seeing what happens? Do any of you have any reason not to vote for it that isn't just speculation? Anyone? Anyone?

Yeah, it's cool, and unprecedented. But what are the next steps, in your mind? Keeping a vote or two on it is unlikely to have any additional effect (or if you think otherwise, say so). Keeping several more votes so it has majority will have the effect Meph already described: the second-most voted will be forced to activate the orb anyway (i.e., be lynched). While this second option does seem interesting, I think the price is too high: too many people voting skeleton instead of scumpicks means the lynch vote is not representative of who is scummiest. Do you think we should? Why?

Can you think of any other useful stuff to do with the skeleton other than voting it? Or that voting it without it achieving majority will reveal something new? Can anyone think of other things beside the skeleton that could be vote targets or otherwise find a new venue for flavour exploration?

Hmmm... Meph: Book looks around at the Orbs, and numbers them #1, #2, #3, #4, starting with the closest to the Statue's left arm and moving clockwise. Which Orb is the Skeleton closest to? Vote Orb #3. Votecount, please.


Dariush:

Are you implying that everyone has to come up with their own solution for the puzzle and anybody who uses someone else's must be lynched?

Of course not, don't be idiotic. Your strawman is your problem, though: ask me questions about what I say, not what you infer I imply.

Also, you didn't answer my question about why Tiruin's vote of the statue is beneath your notice, despite claiming otherwise.

It wasn't, I noticed it just fine.


Meph: Extension, please.

[Bookthras]

Meph: one more: if two players are tied with most votes at the end of day, is there a nolynch? do both activate the orb? one orb or two? or is one of them somehow selected? Does this answer change if the skeleton has majority votes and two players are tied for second place?

[Hapah]

PFP

Statue: How do we Activate the Orbs?

Meph: Is anything else a valid vote target? Would My Left Shoe show up in the votecount?

Jim: I'm not interested in voting the skeleton at the moment because I want a baseline Judgment. Also, I think that the votes are moot, since the lynchee can effectively determine whether or not they use the skeleton to Activate independent of any votes. I get less sure of the second point the more I think about it though; since it's possible that touching the Orbs has nothing to do with activating them. We don't know what the activation mechanism is, though I guess we'll find out either when the statue responds or at lynch time.

[Tiruin]

Finally, partial obligations to the current BM are done and all other RL issues settled

Re-reading...