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[MrWillsauce]

E: I'd like to suggest an idea. Change "Whenever an Undead Army kills another empire's Army in battle, the fallen Army becomes an Undead Army under the control of the Hobbits." to "Whenever an Undead Army kills another empire's Army in battle, the fallen Army becomes an Undead Army under the control of the owner of the winning army."

Well the Hobbits are the only ones who have Necromantic power, so they are the only ones who can raise the dead. If you used the Crown to control an undead army, that's fine, but if that army killed another army, the Hobbits have no reason to raise it under your control. The undead armies themselves don't have the power to raise the dead, the Necromancer does. It is just assumed that she can act through her minions to raise the bodies of their victims. If you used the crown on the Necromancer herself though then you could build graveyards and a Necromancer's tower (provided one hasn't been built yet) belonging to your own empire. Once the Crown's power of the Necromancer failed though, while you would still be in control of your undead armies, their victims would not belong to you but to the Hobbits. Hopefully all that made sense.

That would make for a poor change, I think. It makes fisheries 100% superior to Farms, since claiming one action can give you up to 7 farms vs the 14 actions needed to do the same with farming. What I'd do is:

Nature Preserves: 1 food per turn without work, buildable only on tiles surrounded on all 8 sides by forest. Produces 1 unicorn if worked.

Farm: Produces 2 food per turn when worked (3 if hobbit), built on any plains (or mountains with subterranian farming tech) tile.

Fishery: Built on any land tile adjacent to water. Produces 1 food per two adjacent water tiles, rounded up. Has a 1/6th chance of being destroyed by the Kraken along with the population working it each time it's worked.

Each of these gets bumped up to a 10pt tech.

I will consider all of these suggestions.

[Grek]

Ah, well then, that's quite different. I thought that you weren't allowed to control army-like beings such as the Necromancer, the Rocs or the Black Unicorn.

[MrWillsauce]

Ah, well then, that's quite different. I thought that you weren't allowed to control army-like beings such as the Necromancer, the Rocs or the Black Unicorn.

It works on any army or army-like entity that isn't a wild megabeast. This includes the Mithril Colossus (build at your own risk).

[Terra162]

No offense but why didn't you tell me that a while ago? I have lost quite a bit of actions because of it. I didn't notice till now. >.<
I don't want to sound mad just a little flustered with the lost of those actions. Forgive me for thinking that Towns could be worked by more then one pop, just me being half-brained again.
Work village [1/8]
Claim K-2, K-7, K-8 and K-9 [5/8]
Build nature preserves at K-7, K-8 and K-9[8/8]

[MrWillsauce]

Turn 14

Ship of Freaks's Cyan Humans
Stocks: 39 Food
Structures: 2 Towns, 7 Farms, 8 Nature Preserves, 2 Fisheries
Population: 26 Population
Technologies: Field Agriculture, Preservation, Fish Domestication

Grek's Red Kobolds
Stocks: 0 Food
Structures: 1 Kobold Cave, 5 Fisheries
Population: 8
Technologies: Theft, Fish Domestication, Stealth Maneuvering, 4/10 Master Theft

Immortal's Green Dwarves
Stocks: 1 Food
Structures: 2 Subterranean Farms, 1 Mountainhall
Population: 2
Technologies: Mining, Subterranean Farming

Terenos's Purple Halflings
Stocks: 27 Food
Structures: 3 Farms, 2 Shires
Population: 9
Technologies: Field Agriculture, Fish Domestication, Woodcutting

Terra's Pink Elves
Stocks: 19 Food
Structures: 1 Village, 1 Fishery, 14 Nature Preserves
Population: 9
Technologies: Preservation, Fish Domestication

Megabeast Hordes
Golden Dragon: The Crown of Unconditional Loyalty, 1 Dwarf Population, 1 Halfling Population, 9 Food
The Kraken: The Seaman's Pearl
The Roc: 3 Roc Eggs

Goings on

Spoiler: A Tale of Fried Fishermen (click to show/hide)

The Humans, arrogant in their expansionism, stretch their numbers too thin with little concern for the dangerous wilderness. On an island colony not far from the mainland, Human settlers are burnt to crisps by the dozen as they attempt to bolster their food supply with fish. The Dragon flies off carrying a roasted whale and several crispy Human corpses back to his lair.

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)

No offense but why didn't you tell me that a while ago? I have lost quite a bit of actions because of it. I didn't notice till now. >.<
I don't want to sound mad just a little flustered with the lost of those actions. Forgive me for thinking that Towns could be worked by more then one pop, just me being half-brained again.

I did tell you when you first posted. I told you to read the rules which include such excerpts as:

Structures can only be worked by a population once per turn.

Also, as Ship of Freaks pointed out, what would be the point of building multiple of the same structure (barring Nature Preserves) if they could be worked infinitely in one turn? Anyway don't feel too bad about it: due to luckscrew, the Dwarves and Hobbits are still worse off than you.

[Terra162]

Oh I know that, I fell bad for them I really do. Sorry, I told you I would over look something. XD

Build Elf Village at K-2 [1/9]
Work village [3/9]
claim L-7, L-8, and L-9. [6/9]
Build nature preserve at L-7, L-8 and L-9 [9/9]

[Ship of Freaks]

8 claim G,H-25 H-36 Q-32 H,I-24
3 build fisheries
12 work farms/fisheries
2 build preserves
1 builds town F-26

Lord Shippe du Freaques worries that fate, and the dragon's jaws, might be catching up with his people.

[Terenos]

Ah, We might be in poor shape but the Hobbits are accelerating quickly.

Work 3 Farms
Work 2 Shires
Claim X-54
Claim Y-54 (give to Kobolds)
Build Farm, Z-53
Work Farm, Z-53

---
Anyways, My primary issue with the Dragon is theres no means to avoid it (Except working only safe structures..which we cant do without first risking the structure). You can avoid the Kraken, or the Roc, even the Ent. (Global territory 1 type, Global territory 1 type, Island territory) But the Dragon can, by luck alone, destroy an empire (Mine would have died, if not for a usurious trade.)
This is effectively punishing players for playing the game. Rather than giving them a chance to avoid a potential problem until they are ready for it. Perhaps a grace period of a few turns, or a certain condition that has to be met (2 population? 3?) before the Dragon could potentially attacks would be more fair. In order to allow people a chance to get started(and get at least 1 safe building) without getting hammered. It completely ignored an empire (by luck), to smash two fledgling tribes.

I concur that the Nature Preserve as it is, is far and away too strong. Especially with the addition of the Dragon. But if you were to make it so it takes a tile surrounded by 8 forests, it would be rather rare. Perhaps then there should be a new tech after Preservation (and requiring preservation, and perhaps being an Elf), that allows the player to improve plains into forests. And by making this an Elf only technology, it implies that only the elves should really be relying on Nature Preserves to that extent. And also that elves (or artifact magic) should be capable of growing new forests.

Leaving in the building of Fisheries is fine, But we should need Sailing to claim anything not on a shoreline. Which is fine. That just takes a map restructure so no one can go hopping to a new continent via little islands. Plus Sailing isnt even needed with the current map structure as we can raise armies anywhere. How would we ever risk the Kraken, except when we go to attack the Kraken?

I take a negative to attack and defense, You leave my food production alone. Hobbits eat double the food. This implies at the very least they must harvest double the food, in order to break even at the same farm:hobbit ratio. However by making them produce 3x the food, they have a superior ratio,for food gathering. Giving them more population to do other things. This is the hobbit advantage, currently. Just as the other races have their own advantages and disadvantages.

[Grek]

Once I have Y-54:

4 Kobolds fish, to sustain our numbers [4/8]
Claim X-55 as my base of Dragon Looting Operations. Cede Y-54 back to the Hobbits. [5/8]
A metaphorical army of 3 kobold theives steal from the Dragon. More will arrive next trun. [8/8]

E: Wait, hobbits get 3x food per farm-turn, not 3 food? Misread that...

[MrWillsauce]

Anyways, My primary issue with the Dragon is theres no means to avoid it (Except working only safe structures..which we cant do without first risking the structure). You can avoid the Kraken, or the Roc, even the Ent. (Global territory 1 type, Global territory 1 type, Island territory) But the Dragon can, by luck alone, destroy an empire (Mine would have died, if not for a usurious trade.)
This is effectively punishing players for playing the game. Rather than giving them a chance to avoid a potential problem until they are ready for it. Perhaps a grace period of a few turns, or a certain condition that has to be met (2 population? 3?) before the Dragon could potentially attacks would be more fair. In order to allow people a chance to get started(and get at least 1 safe building) without getting hammered. It completely ignored an empire (by luck), to smash two fledgling tribes.

I agree completely. What I could do is make it so the dragon will never attack the first structure of its kind, and only have a chance to raid on the first turn any additional structures of the same kind (for example you could have a farm, a town, and forge and be completely safe, but if you have two towns then the second one is at risk the first time you work it).

I concur that the Nature Preserve as it is, is far and away too strong. Especially with the addition of the Dragon. But if you were to make it so it takes a tile surrounded by 8 forests, it would be rather rare. Perhaps then there should be a new tech after Preservation (and requiring preservation, and perhaps being an Elf), that allows the player to improve plains into forests. And by making this an Elf only technology, it implies that only the elves should really be relying on Nature Preserves to that extent. And also that elves (or artifact magic) should be capable of growing new forests.

I don't like the idea of having Preserves only able to be built on a 3x3 grid of forests. I do however agree with nerfing them slightly, and I do like the idea of an Elf-specific terraforming tech, but I think I prefer that power only be gained through artifact (the Elves have enough exclusives techs as it is anyway). An idea I have is to make Nature Preserves require a Population to work them for a turn, producing only one food and allowing the Dragon a chance to attack, before they start giving 1 Food freely. Personally I don't think Preserves are too overpowered besides their dragon evasion, but I guess we'll see through the course of Game 2.

Leaving in the building of Fisheries is fine, But we should need Sailing to claim anything not on a shoreline. Which is fine. That just takes a map restructure so no one can go hopping to a new continent via little islands. Plus Sailing isnt even needed with the current map structure as we can raise armies anywhere. How would we ever risk the Kraken, except when we go to attack the Kraken?

The island-hopping via fishing thing was an oversight on my part. The current Fish Domestication system will probably remain in Game3, and I will make the next map with continents and islands which require sailing to reach. An argument could be made that sailing is potentially useful for armies, taking shorter (albeit much more dangerous) routes through the water as opposed to the trekking towards and across land bridges. Still, in its current state Sailing is pretty much worthless apart from kraken-slaying.
E: Sailing does actually have a use: you can use it to claim non-coastal Oceans, which can have Fisheries built on them.

I take a negative to attack and defense, You leave my food production alone. Hobbits eat double the food. This implies at the very least they must harvest double the food, in order to break even at the same farm:hobbit ratio. However by making them produce 3x the food, they have a superior ratio,for food gathering. Giving them more population to do other things. This is the hobbit advantage, currently. Just as the other races have their own advantages and disadvantages.

Agreed. I like the current Hobbit mechanics and I disagree with them only receiving 3 Food per Farm worked. The Hobbits need a buff if anything; they lack a unique tech and have inhibited combat abilities, and their only real bonus is their surplus food production which becomes relatively worthless after a point (although the Megaritual is there to aid this somewhat).

[MrWillsauce]

Also I just realized I wasn't clear about this at all (read: I didn't mention it that I can see), but armies can no longer move/attack on the same turn they are conscripted. I feel like I am bending my "don't change the rules after the start" rule, but I really meant to include this in the OP.

[kaian-a-coel]

For the nature preserves, I also feel like they are overpowered. Why?

-Nature preserve: 1 food when not worked, 2 when worked.
-Farm: 0 food when not worked, 2 when worked. (3 for hobbits)

Undoubtably superior to the farm. But now let's take in account the NET income (that is, minus the food that the farmer eat.)

-Nature preserve: 1 food when not worked, 1 when worked.
-Farm: 0 food when not worked, 1 when worked (also 1 for hobbits).

See? Nature preserves give you the SAME net income of the Farm, AND save you one pop for something else.

What should be done is making the farms produce 3 foods, so the net income is superior (at the cost of 1 pop working).
The hobbits should then earn 8 food per farm. That sounds a lot, but that result in a 6 net income, letting them feed 1 more pop than their counterparts, or trade.

Also the dragon shouldn't attack before a given population cap. like, 4 or 5.

[Terenos]

Actually a farm worked by the hobbits has a net food of +4 after feeding the farmer, as it makes 3x (so 6), not 3.But apart from that, yeah, Nature preserves. Superior in every way to everything else.

[Ship of Freaks]

if an empire is dependent on farms:
2 work villages
1 claims 0#@&!
1 builds farm 0#@&!

and if an empire is dependent on nature preserves:
1 works village
1 claims 0#@&!
1 builds preserve 0#@&!

represent basic expansion. the two examples have the same value, that is, what they produce is essentially equal in worth if the goal is a stable food supply; however, the second example requires fewer resources. the net value of an unworked nature preserve is the same as that of a worked farm, so for an empire dependent on farms, their population is devalued in comparison with one dependent on preserves.

so yeah, it's a bit imbalanced.

although one thing i have noticed is that, if you take the rate of population growth as constant, it's a lot easier to produce farms than nature preserves: it's not quite as efficient, but its easier to halve the value of your 4 new population by building them 2 farms than to retain their value by building 4 preserves.

[Grek]

Guy what hasn't posted a turn: Post a turn.