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Author Topic: Clockwork Empires - 1.0 release October 26th  (Read 255224 times)

Mephansteras

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #795 on: December 05, 2013, 02:36:53 pm »

The characters don't get paid, per se.  I spent a fair chunk of last night thinking about why that is after someone in the comments mentioned it, and wrote a response on the blog to why we're not doing that (which is here )

There are a whole wack of great story-driving outcomes of characters, i'm so taking suggestions for this.

Oh, I don't think you actually need to simulate an economy for that to work. You simply abstract out the fact that people who aren't working are, therefore, not getting paid and therefore have a reduced capacity to acquire things which in turn makes them hungry and unhappy more often. Which can basically be boiled down to People of Station X can be out of work for Y long before getting increasingly unhappy about it. So your basic factory workers get unhappy very quickly (being about the bottom of the ladder) while a Nobleman from a rich family can effectively be idle forever without it truly impacting him. People in the middle (Bankers, impoverished nobles, etc) just have values somewhere in between those ends.

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Citizen Daniel

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #796 on: December 05, 2013, 02:44:32 pm »

Oh definitely.  The functions that dictate what a character does when they have some spare time don't really work that way though.  Being "idle" is the lowest priority thing, and when they are presented with enough possible things to do, they'll prefer almost anything to sitting still for no good reason.

It would definitely be possible to make some characters grumpy if they hadn't been "useful" for long enough; I think that's already a plan for one of the character traits.  The "lazy" character trait is the opposite.
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Citizen Daniel

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #797 on: December 05, 2013, 02:51:42 pm »

The honest reason for having a global work cycle is to give people some semblance of normal human life.  It may not end up necessary, but (generally speaking) people gather to eat, sleep, and so forth at night, and it would be a little weird if they did them at all hours.  We could probably, given enough time, just weight their actions toward work during the day and non-work during the night, but again, we're starting simply. 
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Graknorke

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #798 on: December 05, 2013, 06:15:46 pm »

So long as they have some sort of "stop partying and get to work this is really important" function then free time seems like it would be interesting to have. An example of this not being a thing is Dwarf Fortress. I think every DF player knows the creeping frustration of a broker who has a party after a drink after eating after sleeping and misses the entire window of opportunity to trade. Just some sort of "discipline" action that makes the person more disgruntled but they'll get to work would be okay, I think.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #799 on: December 05, 2013, 06:18:28 pm »

To be honest, simply having a decent set of priorities would help with that particular problem. The main issue with DF is the trading is lower than pretty much everything else on the dwarf's list of things to do, when it should be near the top.

Although I'd love for DF to have a 'DO THIS NOW!' command. Mostly for lever pulling, but it'd be helpful in other situations as well.
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Citizen Daniel

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #800 on: December 05, 2013, 07:00:00 pm »

Yeah, I agree, when everything is going horribly wrong, it would be nice if you could have a "COME WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO LIVE" sort of thing.  There should still be a chance that they're too upset to listen, but in most cases it should work.  That's the current plan.
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Farmerbob

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #801 on: December 06, 2013, 06:25:39 am »

The characters don't get paid, per se.  I spent a fair chunk of last night thinking about why that is after someone in the comments mentioned it, and wrote a response on the blog to why we're not doing that (which is here )

There are a whole wack of great story-driving outcomes of characters, i'm so taking suggestions for this.

Great points about the complexity of economies.  I would rather see you sidestep the gritty underbelly of a working economy if you can just model it on a macro scale.

I believe you already have traits.  Traits will allow you a strong macro scale economy.

I'm pulling things out of a hat here, trait-wise, so don't consider the specifics please, more the method.

Aggregate traits.

Wealth trait = Economic Tier * Education * Work Ethic * Creativity

Say you have a foreman, who is tier 2, but with a poor education, poor work ethic, and poor creativity.  It is entirely possible that one of his workers at Tier 1, with very high education, work ethic, and creativity might have a higher wealth trait, because they don't waste as much, and are constantly trying to do more and improve their lot in life.

Education might be improved at a school.  Work Ethic would be problematic, and would probably only increase if they are fired from a job, and their education allows them to understand why.  Creativity.  Well, creativity could come from having kids, and raising them, or perhaps exposure to squidbunnies.  Sanity and Creativity do share some of the same brain space after all.

Aggregate traits might be useful for more complex things like politics.
Political success = Wealth Trait * (1-Sincerity) *  Appearance * Aggression * number of politically active friends

Like I said.  Just examples, but I tried to make them make sense.  I figure that players should be able to control who "leads" their colonies, and who the foremen are, but it would be interesting if the characters could lose happiness because they work under a moronic boss, and you could see that in their actions.  Workers talking to each other about their bad boss, and then talking about who a good boss would be.  Citizens talking about the colony leader, then talking about who they would prefer to be in charge.

The player could use this to help guide them to better colony efficiency.  Maybe.  See below.

For cults, it would be completely outside the power of the player to control their leadership.  Joe, the third shift steam pipe tester at the widget factory might have better leadership stats than the colony leader, and if they were both introduced into a cult, over time, Joe would emerge on top, leading the cult.

Cults would then start trying to shape the player's decisions, the cult members starting to talk badly about even good leaders, and talking well about their own desired candidates.

Wow I seem to have started with the whole wealth thing and run all the way to politics and cult interference.  Two whole steps.  Sorry about that :)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 06:27:58 am by Farmerbob »
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SquatchHammer

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #802 on: December 07, 2013, 03:05:02 am »

So long as they have some sort of "stop partying and get to work this is really important" function then free time seems like it would be interesting to have. An example of this not being a thing is Dwarf Fortress. I think every DF player knows the creeping frustration of a broker who has a party after a drink after eating after sleeping and misses the entire window of opportunity to trade. Just some sort of "discipline" action that makes the person more disgruntled but they'll get to work would be okay, I think.

Yeah, I agree, when everything is going horribly wrong, it would be nice if you could have a "COME WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO LIVE" sort of thing.  There should still be a chance that they're too upset to listen, but in most cases it should work.  That's the current plan.

Nah. I prefer if its a gnarled "Go to -ing work damnit!!" stick. Or it could be an axe. I vote for the 'get back to work' axe function. Inducing madness....
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Viken

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #803 on: December 07, 2013, 07:30:14 am »

What about a cycle-based system? Everyone knows about first, second, and third shift regiments, eight-hour work segments that separate the day into three roughly equal parts.  You could do the same thing in the game.  Work -> Free Time -> Sleep and repeat.  Then, you could have preference based on work preference and character traits.  Early risers would probably be good to go at First shift, while night owls would work third (night) shift.  And on top of that you could have it tied to the trait system for more specific things like 'Lazy', 'Work-a-Holic', 'Slow Mover' and all the others you could think of.   It would provide a good balance of keeping action going throughout an entire game day.

P.S., Thirdshift could become a workshift only once you got good ol' fashion lighting going on.
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Farmerbob

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #804 on: December 07, 2013, 02:54:24 pm »

What about a cycle-based system? Everyone knows about first, second, and third shift regiments, eight-hour work segments that separate the day into three roughly equal parts.  You could do the same thing in the game.  Work -> Free Time -> Sleep and repeat.  Then, you could have preference based on work preference and character traits.  Early risers would probably be good to go at First shift, while night owls would work third (night) shift.  And on top of that you could have it tied to the trait system for more specific things like 'Lazy', 'Work-a-Holic', 'Slow Mover' and all the others you could think of.   It would provide a good balance of keeping action going throughout an entire game day.

P.S., Thirdshift could become a workshift only once you got good ol' fashion lighting going on.

Eh, what do you mean?  The wood burning in the furnace makes enough light for the orphans to crochet socks just fine.
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Descan

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #805 on: December 07, 2013, 02:56:58 pm »

And if all else fails, just set the orphans on fire. They can work through it.
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Farmerbob

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #806 on: December 08, 2013, 02:27:22 am »

And if all else fails, just set the orphans on fire. They can work through it.

You sir, are apparently a fellow squidbunny fan, and quite ingenious.  Not only can we use simple fire for lighting for third shift sock-crocheting, but the least productive orphans can be used as mobile lighting, to further improve ambient light in the work area.

Genius, Smithers!  Implement it immediately!
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Descan

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #807 on: December 08, 2013, 11:11:29 am »

I apologize, sir. I have no idea what squidbunny is. My mind just works that way.
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Citizen Daniel

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #808 on: December 11, 2013, 04:21:59 pm »

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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Clockwork Empires - Gaslamp Studios makes a colony builder!
« Reply #809 on: December 11, 2013, 04:36:07 pm »

A big technical status update on what's actually going on in here.

http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/12/11/december-technical-status-update-santa-quaggaroth-is-coming-to-town/

Haha, UI work!  I feel your pain.  That moment when you show all your hard work to someone...

"So wait how do I start it?"
"You hit the start button!"
"The green arrow?"
"No, the blue triangle!  But you have to toggle that button there first!"

Then, you get that creeping feeling as you explain for the tenth time what specific order everything has to be pushed that MAYBE, MAYBE it's not the user being an idiot, but it's your software...
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