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[Professor Zephyr]

Well, as I understand from the Sogwood post the colony is initially going to be downright dwarven in terms of alcohol consumption. So if there are unemployed people I suspect they will be drunkenly stumbling into Perfectly Safe situations involving machinery or the Extremely Loyal eldritch creatures you decided to 'ally' with.

Although I suppose there could be some "Anybody can do this and it always needs doing" sort of task. Picking berries, cleaning the Absolutely Sterile blood stains off of walls, donating their bodies to science, something along those lines. Not sure I like the idea of there being a bonus for having unemployed people.

[lordcooper]

Hmm...

Something tells me electrified crucifixes will not be featured in the game :p

Ah, right, that silly cultural... something or other. What about the rack? Would racked cthulhu be acceptable?

Stop trying to plug things into Cthulhu.  Eldritch abominations are not a viable source of electricity.

[Viken]

I remember playing the old Pharaoh's games, myself.  I enjoyed watching buildings auto-upgrade whenever the required resources were available.  At the time, I was too young to dig into the depths, and let it do its own thing with the default settings for the buildings and whatnot.

But in response to your population question, Urist McSpike, what do you think about unemployment having a minor happiness/madness hit, while the Colonial Employment Bureau provides them make-work? Random hauling jobs, street cleaning? Doesn't pay very much, but they could perhaps get a token for booze every day, to provide for their basic survival.  This makes expanding the basics more meaningful, as it stops the negative economic hit.

In the article 'Storytelling as Game Design', they talked about the starting buildings produced by those who didn't have any work, makeshift and dirt cheap huts and the like.  They could become slums and be really ugly should unemployment get too high.  They could also negatively affect traffic/logistics/hauling/jobs that go through the 'slums' area, pesturing and begging.   I like that better than just going 'oh, they're unemployed and thus unhappy', although if it gets too bad, I do expect some of them to leave.

Another thought on that, of course, would be that otherworldly creatures could more easily slip into slums unnoticed, compared to the other places of your city.  Guard patrols are less, crime is higher, lawlessness would be common... poisoned opium, really bad booze... Yeah, that could get so messy.  Could make gathering madness alot easier, though.  But that's only if you have some way of using it for anything other than regular -FUN-.

[Frumple]

Stop trying to plug things into Cthulhu.  Eldritch abominations are not a viable source of electricity.

Lies! If you can make it spin, you can make it generate electricity. Given enough steam and sufficient gears*, we can make Cthulhu spin. And then power our automatic tea brewers with the energy. Live the dream.

*And possibly a really big hamster ball, I'unno.

[Xgamer4]

All that we really need is to have it be turing complete.  Then we can do anything with it!


Looking forward to see how this develops.  Real excited for it!

Look at what you've done. Just look at it.

The Bay 12 Forums have spoken: "Make sure Clockwork Empires is Turing-Complete and we don't care about anything else." Your word is law.

[wolflance]

All that we really need is to have it be turing complete.  Then we can do anything with it!


Looking forward to see how this develops.  Real excited for it!

Look at what you've done. Just look at it.

The Bay 12 Forums have spoken: "Make sure Clockwork Empires is Turing-Complete and we don't care about anything else." Your word is law.

Suddenly I feel being part of the Bay12 community is so awesome. Well, it already is, but now it is even more awesomer.

[megaloptus]

It would be awesome to have a plague mechanic. I want the possibility to play a very sad, perilous game where the citizens are barely getting by, as the nobles live in the rich areas highly impervious to plague due to better containment and availability of elixirs and whatnot. Then the citizens form a revolt that gets put down immediately because the commoners are dying off from the plague. And the commoners that refuse to die of hunger or the plague join a criminal underworld where they take what they need in force. The military constantly combats the strife within the city, as well as possibly other empires. It would be grounds for complete chaos. It should be sustainable for the amount of time suitable for a decent play session, unlike other games where if your city is going to shit, you lose the game.

Or, an awesome, bright, happy game where everyone lives a happy life. Nobles are rich and satisfied, as the humble commoners of the middle class work honest jobs as farmers, miners, etc etc. The military will hardly be put to use, other than to ward off attacks from wolves that roam the woods outside the city.

First concept is heavily influenced by Dishonored. 

The power of choice is what will make this game perfect, in my opinion.

[Intrinsic]

If you're watching this thread, your chances of getting early access to the game are good ; )
...
Also, I love Spacechem =)  However, if resource management in Clockwork Empires ever gets to that level of complexity, I think we have probably diverged too far from the game we set out to make.  I know more than a few people who have played that game, and only 2 that have completed it, including Zach.

You tease! Sounds exciting can't wait to potentially test this game out, loving the blogs you guys put up and have read everyone of them. Plus i own DoD and thoroughly enjoyed it while i played it.

And yeah while Spacechem is a decent game, you don't want that kind of complexity in your face, but then again we all play DF here...

[cerapa]

And yeah while Spacechem is a decent game, you don't want that kind of complexity in your face, but then again we all play DF here...

I think its other people that they are concerned about. DF sits comfortably in a niche of a niche, meaning it has a strong and specific fanbase that it caters to. Works pretty well for Toady with the donation model, but if you are making a game for actually selling, you need some mass appeal.

[Djohaal]

I can play dwarf fortress but by spacechem's fourth non tutorial stage I almost tossed my computer off the window, and then stopped playing it for good. Not my kind of fun complexity at all. Also good to see our ideas are valued by the devs.
And yes, crucified Cthulhu power plant is a great idea. F*** religious taboos. (not that anyone cares much, I'd be more concerned if it had some Islamic imagery. :p )

[Urist McSpike]

I remember playing the old Pharaoh's games, myself.  I enjoyed watching buildings auto-upgrade whenever the required resources were available.  At the time, I was too young to dig into the depths, and let it do its own thing with the default settings for the buildings and whatnot.

But in response to your population question, Urist McSpike, what do you think about unemployment having a minor happiness/madness hit, while the Colonial Employment Bureau provides them make-work? Random hauling jobs, street cleaning? Doesn't pay very much, but they could perhaps get a token for booze every day, to provide for their basic survival.  This makes expanding the basics more meaningful, as it stops the negative economic hit.

In the article 'Storytelling as Game Design', they talked about the starting buildings produced by those who didn't have any work, makeshift and dirt cheap huts and the like.  They could become slums and be really ugly should unemployment get too high.  They could also negatively affect traffic/logistics/hauling/jobs that go through the 'slums' area, pesturing and begging.   I like that better than just going 'oh, they're unemployed and thus unhappy', although if it gets too bad, I do expect some of them to leave.

Another thought on that, of course, would be that otherworldly creatures could more easily slip into slums unnoticed, compared to the other places of your city.  Guard patrols are less, crime is higher, lawlessness would be common... poisoned opium, really bad booze... Yeah, that could get so messy.  Could make gathering madness alot easier, though.  But that's only if you have some way of using it for anything other than regular -FUN-.

Well, if you really want to dig into the complexity of Pharaoh, you owe it to yourself to check out [ur=http://pharaoh.heavengames.com/l]Pharaoh's Heaven[/url] (or if you like city builders in general, as the Heaven Games portal has sub-pages for many of them).

And yes, I was thinking of the 'Storytelling as Game Design' post myself.  It sounds like there are two classes of workers - the 'overseer', who manages the work, and the 'common labourer', who does the work.  I was reminded of the Pharaoh worker model, as it sounds like the overseer will take whatever workers are available, up to the limit for the building, job, or maybe their ability to manage.  (I could see a workshop having a set maximum, but woodcutting would be limited by how many workers you could manage.)

I was generally thinking about the same for unemployment; but why stop there?  If they're modelling citizens as having job preferences, then why not add that in for potential profit or trouble?  If a Naturalist is out of work, why would they sit around the booze stockpile complaining of the lack of work, when they could be out wandering the wilds, indulging in their hobby?  Or, in game terms - wandering the map without a guard assigned, meaning they could get killed & cause unhappiness.  Maybe they'd stir up the natives with their trespassing, or even stir up an ancient evil that just wants to keep sleeping.  Then again, maybe they'd make an important discovery that would give some kind of bonus to the colony.  Of course, that's if they're modelling every citizen, and not just the overseers.  Then again, unemployment could count against both classes - generic drunk troublemaking commoners, and idle, do-as-I-please overseers who could cause their own special blend of trouble.

[ScriptWolf]

Or that bored and out of work naturalist could start to produce drugs and sell them to the rest of your colony ? you know like how the poorly paid chemist teacher goes to making meth

EDIT : I also went back to the front page this game is going to be multiplayer as well.... Damn you production time!!.. even though i do like to coperate with my friends sometimes i would also like a head to head mode where you are competing against a friend

[Puzzlemaker]

All that we really need is to have it be turing complete.  Then we can do anything with it!


Looking forward to see how this develops.  Real excited for it!

Look at what you've done. Just look at it.

The Bay 12 Forums have spoken: "Make sure Clockwork Empires is Turing-Complete and we don't care about anything else." Your word is law.

Holy crap hahahaha

That is awesome.

[Intrinsic]

And yeah while Spacechem is a decent game, you don't want that kind of complexity in your face, but then again we all play DF here...

I think its other people that they are concerned about. DF sits comfortably in a niche of a niche, meaning it has a strong and specific fanbase that it caters to. Works pretty well for Toady with the donation model, but if you are making a game for actually selling, you need some mass appeal.

Yeah it needs to be accessible to the unwashed masses.

[Zangi]

Or that bored and out of work naturalist could start to produce drugs and sell them to the rest of your colony ? you know like how the poorly paid chemist teacher goes to making meth

EDIT : I also went back to the front page this game is going to be multiplayer as well.... Damn you production time!!.. even though i do like to coperate with my friends sometimes i would also like a head to head mode where you are competing against a friend

Or that bored and out of work naturalist could find a new hobby in favorite eldritch cult chapter past-times...  sanity roulette and bingo.