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Author Topic: Rotten food, brewing and cooking  (Read 6343 times)

TheKaspa

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Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« on: August 23, 2012, 03:59:01 am »

I lurked the wiki but I'm not sure to have understood the basics.

I have a pop of about 70, 4 5x5 field all sown with plump helmet. And I have about 200 seeds. But no plants, and every time a plant does appear, I manage to get a couple of brewing made, then they keep tell me that they need plump helmet spawn.
Sometimes they also tell me that they need seeds in order to plant seeds (but the stocks are full).
Also the cooking doesn't work, they need "unrotten items".

Now they randomly stop doing their jobs in order to hunt for vermin (I don't have a river, just an underground lake in a cave but I'm worried about letting them fish in it since I just started my militia).

How do you suggest I have to do in order to fix it?
Is there a dfhack to remove the rotten food or I have to manually dump away seed by seed?
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Tai'shar DwarfFortress

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SnK-Arcbound

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2012, 04:22:03 am »

Food rots when it isn't placed in a stockpile, or your starting wagon. Make rock pots or barrels, and make sure your dwarfs have time to move things to stockpiles. Also if your seeds are all in one barrel, only one dwarf will plant at a time. Make sure to disable barrel/bin for your seed stockpile. If there are plants above ground you can get some quick food with d-p to gather plants on the surface. If you've disabled cooking for plump helmets under the z kitchen menu and don't have meat or fish they won't make meals. You don't need meals, your dwarfs will eat any non-rotten food item.
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TruePikachu

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2012, 04:27:09 am »

In regard to the spawn, there are known problems with how dwarves handle seeds - seeds can be just on a tile, in a barrel, or in bags (IIRC bags can be in barrels). A dwarf who sees seeds left over from brewing jobs will pick up the bag or barrel to get the seeds. This makes it so that the seeds in the bag or barrel are not seen by Urist McFarmer, who then complains. I persolally just ignore the message - it is just spam, but some people have made solutions for this - wait for them to reply.

In regard to the 'needs unrotten item' message, it is not saying that what you do have is rotten, but rather it is saying that the still, kitchen, etc. can't find any plants that are marked as being able to be cooked or brewed. It is either indicitive that you ran out of said plant, or they are all in barrels being hauled by Urist McHauler. IIRC, the 'workflow' command in DFHack would be the closest to a solution for this problem, but I have not used it myself, and I do not know how it would react to items suddenly becoming unavailible.

In regard to the...ummm...shortcomings of the fortress's food supplies, there is another option - designate plants to be taken from the surface (d-p). It has been said that most fortresses will starve unless this is preformed.
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TheKaspa

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2012, 04:39:20 am »

I already collect plants in the underground: the location is hot and the upper corridors are filled by fungi and moss and plants (and some trees, too).
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Tai'shar DwarfFortress

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Laurin

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2012, 05:05:39 am »

If you have 200 seed, you can temporarily allow the seeds for cooking in the kitchen menu, just to get some meals for your starving dwarves.

Alos, make seed stockpiles near your farming plots, which only allow seeds and zero barrels. This will reduce the spam.

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forsaken1111

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2012, 05:15:06 am »

Farming takes a little more organization now. Here is the simplest setup I know of. There are more elaborate ones to better handle seed storage but this has worked fine for me.

1. Disallow seeds in your main food stockpile. That is, DO NOT ALLOW seeds to be placed there.
2. Create a smaller stockpile next to your farming area. Allow ONLY seeds, and set it to contain ZERO barrels. The dwarves will store seeds here in bags.
3. Create another stockpile next to this small stockpile. Set it to allow ONLY seeds, set it to contain the maximum number of barrels, and set it to take ONLY from stockpile 2.

Ideally, if this is set up right, Dwarf McDwarf will see a seed and take it to stockpile 2. It will be placed in a bag if you have any, but if not it will just sit there. Someone else may come along and grab that seed, or Dwarf McDwarf may run off and grab a barrel out of Stockpile 3 and then vacuum up all the seeds in stockpile 2. This may cause a small amount of the cancellation spam because the seeds in the barrel are unavailable, but the dwarf will not run around the entire fortress looking for seeds because it is set to ONLY take from stockpile 2, which is right next to stockpile 3. Think of stockpile 2 as a staging ground, if you like. Seeds are gathered there first and then moved into storage.

When someone needs a seed, they will grab it from either stockpile.
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TheKaspa

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2012, 07:09:05 am »

I tried it, it looks like i have somehow missed some stockpile.
Is there a command to cicle them?

At least I managed to get some outgrow plant gathered...
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Tai'shar DwarfFortress

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forsaken1111

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2012, 09:36:13 am »

I tried it, it looks like i have somehow missed some stockpile.
Is there a command to cicle them?

At least I managed to get some outgrow plant gathered...
I don't know of any command to cycle among all of your stockpiles. You may have to go through carefully and check each one to make sure seeds are disallowed on all but the two. And make sure #3 is set to take from #2 only
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Dwarfler

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 09:44:28 am »

If you use the 'R' (rooms) command it will let you scroll down a list of all defined rooms and buildings - this includes stockpiles.
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TheKaspa

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2012, 10:36:33 am »

At the moment, I'm under an invasion of immigrants and without enough rooms for them... and only 3 miners, no forges and no unused picks.
So I delay this problem and I'm focusing on getting some magma forges/smelters at work in order to get some more picks (I have digged my rooms in a tethraedrite vein, it seems).
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Tai'shar DwarfFortress

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lazygun

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2012, 10:44:38 am »

This may cause a small amount of the cancellation spam because the seeds in the barrel are unavailable, but the dwarf will not run around the entire fortress looking for seeds because it is set to ONLY take from stockpile 2

That will reduce the problem dramatically but it won't eliminate it. The job may only be to move a seed to an adjacent tile, but if a dwarf 100 levels down in the mines decides to take that job, that seed, and every seed in the same bag will still be unavailable while you wait for him to climb the stairs to your farming area. You can improve things further by being careful about which dwarves are allowed to haul food.
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TheKaspa

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2012, 11:07:26 am »

You can improve things further by being careful about which dwarves are allowed to haul food.

Speaking of which, I'm not sure how to handle burrows.
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Tai'shar DwarfFortress

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Sutremaine

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 11:38:14 am »

I have a pop of about 70, 4 5x5 field all sown with plump helmet. And I have about 200 seeds. But no plants, and every time a plant does appear, I manage to get a couple of brewing made, then they keep tell me that they need plump helmet spawn.
Those two things aren't related. Brewing takes plants and returns alcohol and seeds (as long as you don't have 200 of one seed type; there's a cap in place). Planting takes seeds and, after some time, returns plants. Also, the phrase you're looking for, if I'm understanding you, is 'I manage to get a couple of brewing jobs done'. Brewing is a job dwarves do, not a thing they make.

Quote
Sometimes they also tell me that they need seeds in order to plant seeds (but the stocks are full).
Also the cooking doesn't work, they need "unrotten items".
As mentioned by others, the problem here is that although you have seeds, they're not free to be used. Either they're not in the stockpile because the container they're in is being lugged around, or they're in the stockpile but earmarked to have their containers lugged around.

Quote
Now they randomly stop doing their jobs in order to hunt for vermin (I don't have a river, just an underground lake in a cave but I'm worried about letting them fish in it since I just started my militia).
They're starving. Gather some plants on the surface if it's safe to do so, and slaughter any animals you have. Activate the butchery and plant gathering jobs on numerous dwarves -- it's no help to you if all the dwarves who should be producing food are too busy hunting for bugs to get any food made.

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How do you suggest I have to do in order to fix it?
Is there a dfhack to remove the rotten food or I have to manually dump away seed by seed?
Seeds don't rot. If the kitchen is enclosed then you can get away with just leaving any rotten food in there, as the clouds of miasma produced by rotten items can't get through doors. But I don't think you even have any rotten food -- if your dwarves are hungry enough to be hunting for vermin, then any food you produce will be gobbled up before it has time to rot.

Make another food stockpile, a fairly large one (11x11 at minimum). Just a general food one (p, f, place stockpile), set to take no barrels at all. This will hoover up any food items you might have lying around. And stop brewing your plump helmets. You need them to feed your dwarves, and the underground water you have will provide your dwarves with liquid until your food stocks are high enough to start turning some of the food into alcohol.
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TheKaspa

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2012, 01:02:06 pm »

Sorry, I'm Italian  ;D
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Tai'shar DwarfFortress

I've heard Minecart Airlines Express offers nice trips to nobility. Alternative trips include a voyage over the volcano. Call 1-800-I-THE-GUINEAPIG-VOLUNTEER and book now!
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forsaken1111

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Re: Rotten food, brewing and cooking
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2012, 01:19:17 pm »

This may cause a small amount of the cancellation spam because the seeds in the barrel are unavailable, but the dwarf will not run around the entire fortress looking for seeds because it is set to ONLY take from stockpile 2

That will reduce the problem dramatically but it won't eliminate it. The job may only be to move a seed to an adjacent tile, but if a dwarf 100 levels down in the mines decides to take that job, that seed, and every seed in the same bag will still be unavailable while you wait for him to climb the stairs to your farming area. You can improve things further by being careful about which dwarves are allowed to haul food.
That is a problem with Dwarf Fortress in general, and true of ANY hauling job with things in containers. No amount of stockpile shuffling can fix that. The only way to alleviate that would be to have a 'farming' barrow with ONLY farmers in it so only they can move things in the barrow and they'll always be close by.
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