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Author Topic: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?  (Read 2516 times)

AlwayzL3git

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Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« on: August 21, 2012, 07:52:21 pm »

I haven't received migrants in quite a while. Even though my base value is 12200... Help?
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 08:02:52 pm »

What is your population, what is your popcap, and have you been getting regular sieges?
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AlwayzL3git

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2012, 08:21:09 pm »

What is your population, what is your popcap, and have you been getting regular sieges?
14 Dwarfs, 200, and I haven't had the pleasure of having my fort besieged.
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So will the dwarf with the broken spine recover and use a crutch?

SnK-Arcbound

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2012, 08:34:06 pm »

Your fort isn't worth enough to bring in more migrants. Invasions start coming at 80000, you're worth 1/5th that. Produce more wealth (you can even trade it away).
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AlwayzL3git

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2012, 08:36:36 pm »

Your fort isn't worth enough to bring in more migrants. Invasions start coming at 80000, you're worth 1/5th that. Produce more wealth (you can even trade it away).
I'll try that. "Alright shorties! Get to smoothing those walls!" Will I get more migrants? Will I be besieged? Will I survive to even find a solution? Stay tuned to find out.
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The only difference between a human student and a dwarf is that dwarfs have the ability to create and destroy matter.
So will the dwarf with the broken spine recover and use a crutch?

i2amroy

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 03:41:44 am »

Your fort isn't worth enough to bring in more migrants. Invasions start coming at 80000, you're worth 1/5th that. Produce more wealth (you can even trade it away).
Actually sieges will only start when you hit 80 dwarves. Ambushes and thieves can be triggered by wealth, production, or population, but goblin sieges will only occur once your population reaches 80 dwarves.
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Dutchling

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 07:03:03 am »

Necromancers will come regardless of your fort size, assuming there are necromancers near your fort of course.
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mastahcheese

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 08:51:06 am »

I would ask how old your world is, to see if maybe your world simply doesn't have enough dwarves in it, but at only 14 dwarves I doubt thats the case.

Better start smoothing the walls and floors, then.
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Starver

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2012, 08:58:56 am »

Stone crafts.  Well, you might as well get rid of all the stone you have[1], and all grist to the mill.  Or at least trading depot.

[1] Even under the new mining regs.
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Kamin

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2012, 09:03:24 am »

I haven't received migrants in quite a while.
Rejoice!

thiosk

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 01:31:55 pm »

Yeah sometimes I have TOO MANY migrants.  Every fort I've played spiked from 40 to 120 in a matter of a couple seasons, and all my careful job management goes out the window.
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AlwayzL3git

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2012, 01:57:53 pm »

WARNING -- PREPARE FOR WALL OF TEXT!

(oof!)
I abandoned the fortress. Why? Like all the other (about 30-40) fortresses. All my dwarfs stop doing the stuff they need to do, and start doing other things. Like "On break..." Bull shit sir. It takes literally 40 & 1/2 years for my damn Mason/Architect to get started on building a bridge. After my only working and trust worthy miners channel out a moat. My farmers and planters are awesome as well. BUT my carpenter is stupid, my mason is stupid, and every other sod I get from migrant waves are useless. (soap makers? Really?) I've made so many fortress that end up like that. "start mining, build up crafting rooms, build ROOMS, build farms, build storage rooms, make dining hall, make other stuff, then attempt to make walls leading out of the mountain entrance, which takes literally 3 seasons to build. And still, nobody is doing anything. I'm not really good at this game, and I seriously need help. I've watched/read over 4 tutorials. They all teach you the basics. I got the basics DOWN. I searched for advanced tutorials, and a play through tutorial. None of them get past that. I've read so many wiki pages. I need someone to teach me, while I play. Or somebody to just give me goals. I've never gotten a second caravan. I've never gotten 3 waves of migrants. I've never started a military and I've never gotten to metal crafting. Please help me some one!

With many Thanks--
AlwayzL3git
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The only difference between a human student and a dwarf is that dwarfs have the ability to create and destroy matter.
So will the dwarf with the broken spine recover and use a crutch?

Starver

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2012, 02:53:48 pm »

There's nothing like a wall of text to respond to a wall of text.  I'm being as thorough as I can (to cover all kinds of little things), but am probably missing something out due to trying to constrain that thoroughness to a practical volume of characters...


I'm going to go back to "churn stone-crafts out like there's no tomorrow!" as one main point.  You'll hit (and break through, in the last instance) your maximum population limit within two or three game-years at the most, and I do it regularly, even with a raised population cap!  Plus get more than enough tat to trade for those little things (barrels of ale) that turn a dwarf's head and make your life that little bit easier...

Don't worry about 'useless' migrants.  I always find dwarves jobs to do (even if it's hauling, either to tidy or optimise my industries raw materials into better locations, the latter being more useful).  Breaks do happen, but I'm not sure as much as you're indicating.  No-one's missing a good draught of beer or a nice meal or a bed, are they?  Slacking off because they're not getting their material needs?

At the same time, I'll remove all Hauling career possibilities from those dwarves who are actually supposed to be crafting/masoning/etc.  In extremis (the designated trader, for example, at the instant the caravan arrives), I'll remove every configurable job option from them.  They might still want to eat, drink, sleep, party (see below about my attitude to meeting areas) or pull levers, and if they're also assigned to Bookkeeping then I also might have to temporarily reduce the 'accuracy level' that they need to attain to stop them sitting around in their chair, but once they've got all these things out of the system they'll go to the Depot, unless they're a particularly procrastinatory dwarf (in which case, you made a bad choice for the role).  A mason who needs to build a wall should just be given the appropriate masonry job, and possibly even (by setting the expertise or per-dwarf control of who shall use the workshop) dissuade them from doing any outstanding masonry-workshop work.

Burrows could further help, in this, although if they're currently going after a loose sock or nut roast of some kind then you should either wait until they aren't, or put this item's location in their particular dedicated burrow, so that job cancellations (and unfulfilled needs) don't cause problems.

40 years to build a bridge?  Unless you got a particularly badly suited dwarf to be your architect (I'd be tempted to separate architect from mason, so that the mason can build the materials-now-gathered-together bridge while the architect sorts out the next bridge on your list), or you're insisting on materials that are half way across your map, down 50Zs, half way back, then circle round a convoluted tunnel route to the exact opposite corner[1].  It's possible that the architect is walking a long distance to collect the material, maybe even reaching there and starting to move it, but then feeling the need of a drink.  So he walks the long distance to the drinks.  Once satisfied, he starts back on the job, hauling the item towards the bridge-in-potentia, but by now he's feeling hungry.  It's possible this takes effect before he even gets fully back to the hauling site.  Eventually, things will move, but they may take a lot of individual goes.

Still doesn't so easily explain why it's taking 40 game-years, although it might be a good explanation for three seasons for walls[1a].  Assuming you're not also confusing the job engine because of its strict "Last in, first out" job prioritisation, and adding "newer jobs", continuously, that take priority over the very first ones you set down, and keep adding "newer newer jobs".


Oh, and I never have meeting areas.  I don't know if you do, but it seems to encourage laziness, and could be detrimental to morale to have too many people friendly with someone who later gets him or herself killed.


Not really being sure to what extent a lot of the tutorials dive in, I can only suggest that you get into the minds of your dwarves ("Be the dwarf, feel the rock!") and work out how you, the devious hive-mind of the little lemmings darlings can anticipate their stupidities and make sure they're always on the right side of the wall/out of range of any potential ambush's arrows/not about to cark out through dehydration/whatever.


[1] Protip, in case you've not come across this already: If your bridge needs (say) ten stone, which you can find out going through motions and then cancelling before choosing material, then set up a 10-tile stockpile for exactly the material you want right next to the building site, get a load of slackers haulers to fill the stockpile, then finally start and complete the bridge-designation (all the materials should now be within a few steps).  Once the job is designated, you can undefine the stockpile, because the materials are going nowhere except the few steps from where they are to where the bridge will be built.  In no time (once the architect isn't otherwise inclined to sleep/eat/drink), and they should complete the job quick enough that not too many natural needs will interrupt the process.

[1a] Ditto with walls, and other constructions, although if you want (say) ten wall-tiles built, you can start designating the first wall when the first item is sat in the stockpile you made (and de-designate just that tile of the stockpile).  Basically, try to build a wall, and see if the material you want is as close as you think it ought to be.  If it is, build it, if not, then the next nearest bit of stockpile hasn't been filled yet.  And then de-designate all stockpile squares with an item on it (they should have the "I am currently being used" flag next to them, when you use the right inspection-cursor).  That bits just to make sure you're not sending twice as much stone to the 'front line' of your construction effort as you wanted to.  Although if you're going to have a second line of ten walls, feel free to let it repopulate (and then de-stockpile the bits you need to when you're happy that you've currently got enough nearby stone to exactly match everything else you want to be done locally.  Or at least you can set up a new staging stockpile, further along the line of construction.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2012, 02:59:43 pm »

You don't need rooms. You just need space. Carve out one huge room in a soil layer, use it for everything while you carve the fancy bits out of the unyielding rock, and then move out one industry at a time and leave the soil area to become a tree farm.

I would recommend chopping down the surface trees as soon as possible. One, you'll have it done before invaders start appearing in earnest. Two, you'll have enough of a surplus to burn it into charcoal and get a little bit of metalcrafting done.

Here's a goal. Try the wall again, but this time do it as efficiently as possible. Use bridges for scaffolding if the walls go up more than one level, make the rock blocks on-site using stone brought in by minecarts on loops that return the carts to their original positions for furher loading, stop the mason from lugging rock halfway across the map by linking the mason's shops to the stone stockpile. That's a fairly specific goal, and one that will teach you about several aspects of the game.
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AlwayzL3git

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Re: Now I've stopped receiving migrants. Help?
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2012, 04:12:10 pm »

There's nothing like a wall of text to respond to a wall of text.  I'm being as thorough as I can (to cover all kinds of little things), but am probably missing something out due to trying to constrain that thoroughness to a practical volume of characters...


I'm going to go back to "churn stone-crafts out like there's no tomorrow!" as one main point.  You'll hit (and break through, in the last instance) your maximum population limit within two or three game-years at the most, and I do it regularly, even with a raised population cap!  Plus get more than enough tat to trade for those little things (barrels of ale) that turn a dwarf's head and make your life that little bit easier...

Don't worry about 'useless' migrants.  I always find dwarves jobs to do (even if it's hauling, either to tidy or optimise my industries raw materials into better locations, the latter being more useful).  Breaks do happen, but I'm not sure as much as you're indicating.  No-one's missing a good draught of beer or a nice meal or a bed, are they?  Slacking off because they're not getting their material needs?

At the same time, I'll remove all Hauling career possibilities from those dwarves who are actually supposed to be crafting/masoning/etc.  In extremis (the designated trader, for example, at the instant the caravan arrives), I'll remove every configurable job option from them.  They might still want to eat, drink, sleep, party (see below about my attitude to meeting areas) or pull levers, and if they're also assigned to Bookkeeping then I also might have to temporarily reduce the 'accuracy level' that they need to attain to stop them sitting around in their chair, but once they've got all these things out of the system they'll go to the Depot, unless they're a particularly procrastinatory dwarf (in which case, you made a bad choice for the role).  A mason who needs to build a wall should just be given the appropriate masonry job, and possibly even (by setting the expertise or per-dwarf control of who shall use the workshop) dissuade them from doing any outstanding masonry-workshop work.

Burrows could further help, in this, although if they're currently going after a loose sock or nut roast of some kind then you should either wait until they aren't, or put this item's location in their particular dedicated burrow, so that job cancellations (and unfulfilled needs) don't cause problems.

40 years to build a bridge?  Unless you got a particularly badly suited dwarf to be your architect (I'd be tempted to separate architect from mason, so that the mason can build the materials-now-gathered-together bridge while the architect sorts out the next bridge on your list), or you're insisting on materials that are half way across your map, down 50Zs, half way back, then circle round a convoluted tunnel route to the exact opposite corner[1].  It's possible that the architect is walking a long distance to collect the material, maybe even reaching there and starting to move it, but then feeling the need of a drink.  So he walks the long distance to the drinks.  Once satisfied, he starts back on the job, hauling the item towards the bridge-in-potentia, but by now he's feeling hungry.  It's possible this takes effect before he even gets fully back to the hauling site.  Eventually, things will move, but they may take a lot of individual goes.

Still doesn't so easily explain why it's taking 40 game-years, although it might be a good explanation for three seasons for walls[1a].  Assuming you're not also confusing the job engine because of its strict "Last in, first out" job prioritisation, and adding "newer jobs", continuously, that take priority over the very first ones you set down, and keep adding "newer newer jobs".


Oh, and I never have meeting areas.  I don't know if you do, but it seems to encourage laziness, and could be detrimental to morale to have too many people friendly with someone who later gets him or herself killed.


Not really being sure to what extent a lot of the tutorials dive in, I can only suggest that you get into the minds of your dwarves ("Be the dwarf, feel the rock!") and work out how you, the devious hive-mind of the little lemmings darlings can anticipate their stupidities and make sure they're always on the right side of the wall/out of range of any potential ambush's arrows/not about to cark out through dehydration/whatever.


[1] Protip, in case you've not come across this already: If your bridge needs (say) ten stone, which you can find out going through motions and then cancelling before choosing material, then set up a 10-tile stockpile for exactly the material you want right next to the building site, get a load of slackers haulers to fill the stockpile, then finally start and complete the bridge-designation (all the materials should now be within a few steps).  Once the job is designated, you can undefine the stockpile, because the materials are going nowhere except the few steps from where they are to where the bridge will be built.  In no time (once the architect isn't otherwise inclined to sleep/eat/drink), and they should complete the job quick enough that not too many natural needs will interrupt the process.

[1a] Ditto with walls, and other constructions, although if you want (say) ten wall-tiles built, you can start designating the first wall when the first item is sat in the stockpile you made (and de-designate just that tile of the stockpile).  Basically, try to build a wall, and see if the material you want is as close as you think it ought to be.  If it is, build it, if not, then the next nearest bit of stockpile hasn't been filled yet.  And then de-designate all stockpile squares with an item on it (they should have the "I am currently being used" flag next to them, when you use the right inspection-cursor).  That bits just to make sure you're not sending twice as much stone to the 'front line' of your construction effort as you wanted to.  Although if you're going to have a second line of ten walls, feel free to let it repopulate (and then de-stockpile the bits you need to when you're happy that you've currently got enough nearby stone to exactly match everything else you want to be done locally.  Or at least you can set up a new staging stockpile, further along the line of construction.
I think you just broke my nose. When I said 40 years, I wasn't serious. But it does take a considerate amount of time. You might be right about the laziness thing and the meeting hall. I used to have 1-2 idlers every now and then. Then came the meeting/dining hall... 7-8... with a lot of hauling jobs to be done... Thanks for the reply by the way. I never have time to make crafts, simply because my dwarfs are always bitching about how "THERE'S NOT ENOUGH CHAIRS TO PUT MY ARSE IN!" or "MAKE ME TABLES AND DOORS! NOW!" so time is hard to find :|
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The only difference between a human student and a dwarf is that dwarfs have the ability to create and destroy matter.
So will the dwarf with the broken spine recover and use a crutch?
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