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[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Expansion (maybe...) to the Dwarf Fortress - Card Game

Okay, I have no ideas in mind at this time, but that makes this even more open to ideas.

What has been decided (may be changed)

Spoiler: A layer system, similar to this, but is currently in a state of flux (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[]Sky
[]Sky
[]Sky
[]Surface
[]Soil
[]Stone
[]Stone
[]1st Cavern
[]2nd Cavern
[]3rd Cavern
[]Magma Sea
[]HFS

There should be more cards than to be filled positions, to increase diversity during different playthroughs.

Features that include generic things like grass and trees, or gatherable plants but also things like waterfalls and rivers.  For the underground it might include things like ore or generic stone , and for the caverns some other stuff.

Different sets for different biomes.

The soil and surface cards are revealed at start.

As an addition to the layer system, it's grid should initially filled by small upside down cards, which are revealed when the dwarves manage to reach an adjecent building.

Cards are more effective in some squares than in other squares.

What needs to be decided upon
Basically everything else

[10ebbor10]

Some suggestions, and some questions

As an added thing to the layer system, it's grid should initially filled by small upside down cards, which are revealed when the dwarves manage to reach an adjecent building. These cards are divided into different things . The soil and surface cards are revealed at start, so there we just need a combination of different terain features. (For the people who want it, you could have different sets for different biomes. Using sets would be needed to prevent a mixmatch of multiple different types.) Features could include generic things like grass and trees, or gatherable plants but also things like waterfalls and rivers. There should be more cards than to be filled positions, to increase diversity during different playthroughs.

For the underground it might include things like ore or generic stone , and for the cavers some other stuff.
 

I suggest expanding the soil and stone layers by one or more.


Questions:

Do we use cards, or do we allow the players to choose their orders and constructions themselves, or a combination of those systems.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

As an added thing to the layer system, it's grid should initially filled by small upside down cards, which are revealed when the dwarves manage to reach an adjecent building. These cards are divided into different things . The soil and surface cards are revealed at start, so there we just need a combination of different terain features. (For the people who want it, you could have different sets for different biomes. Using sets would be needed to prevent a mixmatch of multiple different types.) Features could include generic things like grass and trees, or gatherable plants but also things like waterfalls and rivers.

That is what I was thinking.  I did not think of the different features, but that would work to add an increase of depth.  And adjacent cards could have effects upon others, such as if you dam up a river that has a waterfall farther upstream, the water will rise up higher over a few turns, similar to what happens in-game.

Edit:  I am thinking of having the layer system be one for every 5 z-levels, and I added a 'sky' that will allow differing surface levels, waterfalls, and building upward with walls, staircases, and floors.

There should be more cards than to be filled positions, to increase diversity during different playthroughs.

That would allow for a trade mechanic that would allow you to get things you do not have.  (Anyone have any ideas on how to do this?)

For the underground it might include things like ore or generic stone , and for the caverns some other stuff.

Shall be added.

Do we use cards, or do we allow the players to choose their orders and constructions themselves, or a combination of those systems.

Probably a combination.

[Hoggypare]

This is just a loose talk and I am well aware of that but your ideas are getting somewhat overcomplicated I think
I just wanted to add, that no matter how hard you try, you'll never make tabletop DF. And really, why would you? You can always play the game on pc. Let's better concentrate on plausible rules. Cards are good idea, because they'll add some randomness and replayability, but the whole thing with damming the river - you can't do that.
And do you have any idea how the game would play, anything more than map plans? Cause that would be the way to start. You know, we need a basis to convert loose thoughts into steps to develop the game.

[mcsafety]

what is a quasiboard ?

[10ebbor10]

'Dwarf Fortress' has been an accomplishment of great mathematician Adam.
Especially its freeware quality i.e. compatibility with all- has been the plus point which makes it more user friendly.

I'm afraid a part of your post has dissapeared or something? What is the relevance with the thread ?

This is just a loose talk and I am well aware of that but your ideas are getting somewhat overcomplicated I think
I just wanted to add, that no matter how hard you try, you'll never make tabletop DF. And really, why would you? You can always play the game on pc. Let's better concentrate on plausible rules. Cards are good idea, because they'll add some randomness and replayability, but the whole thing with damming the river - you can't do that.
And do you have any idea how the game would play, anything more than map plans? Cause that would be the way to start. You know, we need a basis to convert loose thoughts into steps to develop the game.

Yeah, damming the river seems to complicated to me. We would need a third dimension for that.

As for how the game plays, similiar to the card game. Player A plays as the fort, player B as all the dangers. Cards will be placed in different layers , and such.

As for making the game use one layer for every 5 Z levels. It might work. However, thanks to the fact that we're using those terrain feature cards to make up the map, players can easily change things.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

what is a quasiboard ?

What I meant by that was that this can go in multiple directions, some of which would not be recognizable as a board game.  Quasi has the meaning of resembling.

'Dwarf Fortress' has been an accomplishment of great mathematician Adam.
Especially its freeware quality i.e. compatibility with all- has been the plus point which makes it more user friendly.

I'm afraid a part of your post has dissapeared or something? What is the relevance with the thread ?

I was wondering the same thing.

This is just a loose talk and I am well aware of that but your ideas are getting somewhat overcomplicated I think
I just wanted to add, that no matter how hard you try, you'll never make tabletop DF. And really, why would you? You can always play the game on pc. Let's better concentrate on plausible rules. Cards are good idea, because they'll add some randomness and replayability, but the whole thing with damming the river - you can't do that.
And do you have any idea how the game would play, anything more than map plans? Cause that would be the way to start. You know, we need a basis to convert loose thoughts into steps to develop the game.

Yeah, damming the river seems to complicated to me. We would need a third dimension for that.

As for how the game plays, similiar to the card game. Player A plays as the fort, player B as all the dangers. Cards will be placed in different layers , and such.

As for making the game use one layer for every 5 Z levels. It might work. However, thanks to the fact that we're using those terrain feature cards to make up the map, players can easily change things.
[/quote]

That was just a random idea that I came up with, no bearing upon the final game.

Exactly.

This would just be the standard format, but do not forget that it is in a state of flux at this time.

[Rexfelum]

I am a spambot!  I like making randomly-generated posts that reference content on your website!

I'm afraid a part of your post has dissapeared or something? What is the relevance with the thread ?

I was wondering the same thing.

I think it's a spambot.

Anyway, I'm delighted to see the layer idea again.  The way I imagined it, the Dwarf player places constructions (standalone buildings like a barracks, things that modify the current location like a waterwheel or farm, and so on) within this map.  Some of them can be put any-old-place, some work best if done a certain way (e.g., "farm" works best on soil but can be forced on stone, "forge" works best on magma but can be forced anywhere else), and some are completely useless outside of a certain location (e.g., "pump stack" needs water or magma).

Some thoughts.

--Rexfelum

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Anyway, I'm delighted to see the layer idea again.  The way I imagined it, the Dwarf player places constructions (standalone buildings like a barracks, things that modify the current location like a waterwheel or farm, and so on) within this map.  Some of them can be put any-old-place, some work best if done a certain way (e.g., "farm" works best on soil but can be forced on stone, "forge" works best on magma but can be forced anywhere else), and some are completely useless outside of a certain location (e.g., "pump stack" needs water or magma).

Sounds good!  adding it to the list.

[10ebbor10]

Anyway, I'm delighted to see the layer idea again.  The way I imagined it, the Dwarf player places constructions (standalone buildings like a barracks, things that modify the current location like a waterwheel or farm, and so on) within this map.  Some of them can be put any-old-place, some work best if done a certain way (e.g., "farm" works best on soil but can be forced on stone, "forge" works best on magma but can be forced anywhere else), and some are completely useless outside of a certain location (e.g., "pump stack" needs water or magma).

Sounds good!  adding it to the list.

Now we have to decide wherether or not these buildings are to be card based, or do we have them as freely contructible things.
A good thing might be to have a combination. Ie, once you build, for example, a central gearbox, you can build windmills and watermills on the surface.

As for the player cards, they should be placed in 3 types:
   -Buildings : These are placed on the map, both for the friendly and the evil player.
   -Instances: Has a direct effect.
   -Summonings  : These can place a variety of counters on the map. For example, a goblin invasion counter places goblins on the map.

Or we can simplify and say that the evil player can have no buildings, and the good one no summonings(And needs to get militia counters from say, a barracks building and resources.)

We need to get card ideas for the different biomes and players too...

[GoombaGeek]

You know what would be cool? Card-based worldgen for an adventurer mode variant.

Basically, you draw sixteen (or twenty-five if you want a big grid) generic "directional cards" like so (use your ASCII imagination!):
┌─┐┌│┌┘└││┌─└┘└─

Then the players argue about how to arrange them into a contiguous coastline, with lines either forming loops or terminating on the edge of the board:
╔════╗
║┌─┐┌║
║│┌┘└║
║││┌─║
║└┘└─║
╚════╝

Then we assume mountains and other features are placed in-land (possibly through gratuitous token usage) and we have a world! Sites and towns could be a bit less freeform, with cards featuring different road/path directions and pre-existing shops/houses/impassible tiles on them being placed as the adventurers adventure.

Problem: It's hard to make a world with sixteen cards that fits.
Solution: The cards can rotate (and you can discard them if they just don't work).

[Hoggypare]

You know what would be cool? Card-based worldgen for an adventurer mode variant.

The adventure mode boardgame would be cool, ideed. But that is not the case here, the idea is different as I understood it.

Now we have to decide wherether or not these buildings are to be card based, or do we have them as freely contructible things.
A good thing might be to have a combination. Ie, once you build, for example, a central gearbox, you can build windmills and watermills on the surface.

As for the player cards, they should be placed in 3 types:
   -Buildings : These are placed on the map, both for the friendly and the evil player.
   -Instances: Has a direct effect.
   -Summonings  : These can place a variety of counters on the map. For example, a goblin invasion counter places goblins on the map.

Or we can simplify and say that the evil player can have no buildings, and the good one no summonings(And needs to get militia counters from say, a barracks building and resources.)

We need to get card ideas for the different biomes and players too...

Uhm... The first idea was to try to incorporate (and possibly alter slightly) my cards into the boardgame. I don't know if you changed your minds, but I am still willing to help you. As for card design, I will upload shortly some samples, so you'd have a visualisation of my idea. Then the discussion will become way more fruitful in my oppinion.
If you don't want to use my help, that is fine too, but still I think it would be fair to include me in credits though, cause you are clearly taking much inspiration from my ideas.

[10ebbor10]

Now we have to decide wherether or not these buildings are to be card based, or do we have them as freely contructible things.
A good thing might be to have a combination. Ie, once you build, for example, a central gearbox, you can build windmills and watermills on the surface.

As for the player cards, they should be placed in 3 types:
   -Buildings : These are placed on the map, both for the friendly and the evil player.
   -Instances: Has a direct effect.
   -Summonings  : These can place a variety of counters on the map. For example, a goblin invasion counter places goblins on the map.

Or we can simplify and say that the evil player can have no buildings, and the good one no summonings(And needs to get militia counters from say, a barracks building and resources.)

We need to get card ideas for the different biomes and players too...

Uhm... The first idea was to try to incorporate (and possibly alter slightly) my cards into the boardgame. I don't know if you changed your minds, but I am still willing to help you. As for card design, I will upload shortly some samples, so you'd have a visualisation of my idea. Then the discussion will become way more fruitful in my oppinion.
If you don't want to use my help, that is fine too, but still I think it would be fair to include me in credits though, cause you are clearly taking much inspiration from my ideas.

Of course, assuming this game ever reaches anything near playable.

If we can use the cards, that's good.

[Valid_Dark]

Ooo  I designed a dwarf fortress card/board game like 8 months ago,  never physically made it, it's still just an idea.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Ooo  I designed a dwarf fortress card/board game like 8 months ago,  never physically made it, it's still just an idea.

List those ideas you were going to use immediately!

You know what would be cool? Card-based worldgen for an adventurer mode variant.

The adventure mode boardgame would be cool, ideed. But that is not the case here, the idea is different as I understood it.

I have had ideas on how to expand this to include adventure mode... but first we need to get fortress mode done.

Now we have to decide wherether or not these buildings are to be card based, or do we have them as freely contructible things.
A good thing might be to have a combination. Ie, once you build, for example, a central gearbox, you can build windmills and watermills on the surface.

As for the player cards, they should be placed in 3 types:
   -Buildings : These are placed on the map, both for the friendly and the evil player.
   -Instances: Has a direct effect.
   -Summonings  : These can place a variety of counters on the map. For example, a goblin invasion counter places goblins on the map.

Or we can simplify and say that the evil player can have no buildings, and the good one no summonings(And needs to get militia counters from say, a barracks building and resources.)

We need to get card ideas for the different biomes and players too...

Uhm... The first idea was to try to incorporate (and possibly alter slightly) my cards into the boardgame. I don't know if you changed your minds, but I am still willing to help you. As for card design, I will upload shortly some samples, so you'd have a visualisation of my idea. Then the discussion will become way more fruitful in my oppinion.
If you don't want to use my help, that is fine too, but still I think it would be fair to include me in credits though, cause you are clearly taking much inspiration from my ideas.

That would be best, but we could still figure out a way to incorporate 10ebbor10's idea.

You know what would be cool? Card-based worldgen for an adventurer mode variant.

Basically, you draw sixteen (or twenty-five if you want a big grid) generic "directional cards" like so (use your ASCII imagination!):
┌─┐┌│┌┘└││┌─└┘└─

Then the players argue about how to arrange them into a contiguous coastline, with lines either forming loops or terminating on the edge of the board:
╔════╗
║┌─┐┌║
║│┌┘└║
║││┌─║
║└┘└─║
╚════╝

Then we assume mountains and other features are placed in-land (possibly through gratuitous token usage) and we have a world! Sites and towns could be a bit less freeform, with cards featuring different road/path directions and pre-existing shops/houses/impassible tiles on them being placed as the adventurers adventure.

Problem: It's hard to make a world with sixteen cards that fits.
Solution: The cards can rotate (and you can discard them if they just don't work).

Can you think of a way to summarize that for me to put into the OP?