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[acetech09]

I like trading for stuff. Trading for booze and food I don't have make my dwarves happy. And I don't have to bother with a cloth industry. (Request all pets to the second-highest degree and butcher them all.)

But I also want to have a trapped entrance to soften up those overly powerful sieges. I think making traps block wagons was Toady's way of forcing you to be more creative. I think I just got around that.

No more wagons leaving you behind, not wanting to get chopped up!

BEHOLD, THE SAFE-T GRINDER!

Code: [Select]


               O###################O
               ++++^^^^^^║^^^^^^++++
FROM OUTSIDE ->++++^^^^^^║^^^^^^+++TO DEPOT ->
               ++++O^^^^^║^^^^^O++++
               O+++║^^^^^║^^^^^║+++O
               ║+++║^^^^^^^^^^^║+++║
               ║+++║^^^^^^^^^^^║+++║
               ║+++O############+++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               O###################O

^ = Trap
# = Fortifications

Credit to a double-revised version goes to doublestrafe. He revised a version by Qwernt, who revised my original. Teamwork!

I think you can see what's going on there. Gobbos are stupid. They will take the straightest path through your fortress. Straightest path is through the menacing lines of weapon traps and hailstorm of bolts from behind fortifications.

Wagons are smart. They will take the safest path to your fortress. That's by carefully winding their way around the snake of traps, sucessfully getting into your depot.

Pretty simple. And it works.

NOTABLE ANNOTATIONS:
Build a bridge on the front entrance so you can seal goblins in and let them ... marinate for a bit. That allows you to build 10x disc traps for max effectiveness and clean it out afterwards safely.

[Hyndis]

Diplomats and guards won't stay on the path, even if the wagons will.

[Bobnova]

I was just thinking of almost this exact plan earlier today. Kinda funny.

I was going to have fewer back and forths with more traps between 'em. Fortifications hadn't occurred to me.
Nice!

[LordSlowpoke]

It's... not much of an invention, to be frank. Four lines of traps aren't going to stop anything bigger than a light ambush, plus the marksdwarves can be killed by a random bowgoblin (I recommend ballistae)... However, the fact that you documented it does not go unnoticed, and I thank you for that.

[loose nut]

I've never seen a diplomat or a guard get killed by a trap in the current version, so I don't know why that would be an issue. As for big sieges, yeah, you might want a gate/bridge to seal off the outside entrance. Let 'em in piecemeal after you've cleaned the traps... And marksdwarves, eh, you can always build an overhanging tower that can deal with elite bowgobs a bit more safely.

[acetech09]

It's... not much of an invention, to be frank. Four lines of traps aren't going to stop anything bigger than a light ambush, plus the marksdwarves can be killed by a random bowgoblin (I recommend ballistae)... However, the fact that you documented it does not go unnoticed, and I thank you for that.

Have you seen a squad move in an open area? They don't line up single-file. Deck out the traps with 10x discs (You can seal it up and unclean them after the siege pretty easily). I think that a 40x disc attack will be enough to seriously slow down any one goblin, and since they'll spread out in the open area, there won't be too big of an issue with clogging.

And I don't think that elite gobs will be too much of an issue. They might be ground up by the traps. But they'll only have 25 bolts to kill you with, and this thing is designed for peasant marksdwarves en-masse. Just have a good hospital and you'll be fine.

[Qwernt]

simple improvements:
If goblins (and all other nasties) always take the shortest path, then you can simplify and still add more punch...

Code: [Select]

               O###################O
               ++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^++++
FROM OUTSIDE ->++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++TO DEPOT ->
               ++++^^^^^^^^^^^^+++++
               O+++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++O
               ║+++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++║
               ║+++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               O###################O
Or simpler yet:

Code: [Select]

               O║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║O
               ++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^++++
 FROM OUTSIDE ->+++║║║║║║║║║║║║║+++TO DEPOT ->
               ++++║║║║║║║║║║║║║++++
               O+++║║║║║║║║║║║║║+++O
               ║+++║║║║║║║║║║║║║+++║
               ║+++║║║║║║║║║║║║║+++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               O║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║O
of course instead of going simple, what you probably should do instead is add a more intelligent trap, that reroutes them to make what looks like the "shortest" path turn into a LONG path.  If it were weighted correctly, I think you could even ignore migrants, diplomats, etc.  Of course, you would need to plan for buliding destroyers...

[Quietust]

Remember that weapon traps have a 50%* chance of jamming if they manage to actually kill a unit (if it's mortally wounded and bleeds to death a few moments later it won't jam), so more traps are always better.

* originally found in a disassembly of version 0.23.130.23a and subsequently confirmed in a disassembly of version 0.34.11

[acetech09]

simple improvements:
If goblins (and all other nasties) always take the shortest path, then you can simplify and still add more punch...

Code: [Select]

               O###################O
               ++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^++++
FROM OUTSIDE ->++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++TO DEPOT ->
               ++++^^^^^^^^^^^^+++++
               O+++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++O
               ║+++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++║
               ║+++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               O###################O
Or simpler yet:

Code: [Select]

               O║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║O
               ++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^++++
 FROM OUTSIDE ->+++║║║║║║║║║║║║║+++TO DEPOT ->
               ++++║║║║║║║║║║║║║++++
               O+++║║║║║║║║║║║║║+++O
               ║+++║║║║║║║║║║║║║+++║
               ║+++║║║║║║║║║║║║║+++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               O║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║║O
of course instead of going simple, what you probably should do instead is add a more intelligent trap, that reroutes them to make what looks like the "shortest" path turn into a LONG path.  If it were weighted correctly, I think you could even ignore migrants, diplomats, etc.  Of course, you would need to plan for buliding destroyers...

I'll test the efficiency of that. I have a feeling that you'll get more jamming, therefore more cleanup. I'm not sure though. I'll rebuild it like that and see.

[doublestrafe]

simple improvements:
If goblins (and all other nasties) always take the shortest path, then you can simplify and still add more punch...

Code: [Select]

               O###################O
               ++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^++++
FROM OUTSIDE ->++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++TO DEPOT ->
               ++++^^^^^^^^^^^^+++++
               O+++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++O
               ║+++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++║
               ║+++^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               O###################Omore jamming, therefore more cleanup. I'm not sure though. I'll rebuild it like that and see.

Simple improvement to the simple improvement:

Code: [Select]

               O###################O
               ++++^^^^^^║^^^^^^++++
FROM OUTSIDE ->++++^^^^^^║^^^^^^+++TO DEPOT ->
               ++++O^^^^^║^^^^^O++++
               O+++║^^^^^║^^^^^║+++O
               ║+++║^^^^^^^^^^^║+++║
               ║+++║^^^^^^^^^^^║+++║
               ║+++O############+++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               ║+++++++++++++++++++║
               O###################O

[acetech09]

Now that's more like it.

[SuicideJunkie]

Why not combine the grinder with a dodgeme?
You don't need to dig a pit, just put some walls in there for them to dodge off of.

Code: [Select]

Legend:
O = Wall
R = Ramp
^ = Trap
! = Single-strike Trap on top of a 1-high wall

Outdoors <----------------> Fort
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
+++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^O++++
+++++R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!R+++
+++++^O^^^O^^^O^^^O^^^O^^^O^^^O++++
++++O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O+++O
O+++O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O+O+++O
O+++O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O+O+++O
O+++O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O+O+++O
O+++O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O^O+O+++O
O+++O^^^O^^^O^^^O^^^O^^^O^^^O+O+++O
O+++OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO+++O
O+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++O
O+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++O
O+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++O
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Caravans take the long safe route.
Gobbos climb the wall and skip along the traps until they dodge.  One-attack trap weapons ensure they only dodge one tile away max.
If they dodged left, they fall into the "easy mode" side and they face up to 20 traps.
If they dodged right, they fall into "hard mode" and face up to 70 traps.  A 1in 4 roll to save will land them on the wall and let them resume their progress.

Once the fallen get out of the penalty box, the trap bridge is still the fastest way into they fort, so if they aren't fleeing, they can try again.

With a hundred traps, you don't even need to clean them.  Just wait until the corpses rot away and the trap will unjam itself!

Edit:
Tidied up walls in diagram

[acetech09]

It appears that the zigzaggy path is quite longer than the caravan path...

[Sutremaine]

Remember that weapon traps have a 50%* chance of jamming if they manage to actually kill a unit (if it's mortally wounded and bleeds to death a few moments later it won't jam), so more traps are always better.

All weapon traps, from spikes to hammers?

[loose nut]

Ooh, now this is getting good